The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk Saturday Oil change

Changed the oil today. Valvoline 10w-30w. Hope the oil choice is right?
Bought one of those drip pans to recycle the oil. What a peice of junk, the oil just kinda splattered all over the floor.
I could not remember all the types or additives I am suppose to use, hopefully the valvoline is o.k.

Ken

Just my thoughts, but I don't care for Valvoline.
Depending on your application, you usually get what you pay for and you might use a better oil. I'm sure you will get a lots of advice here on what everyone thinks best. If you have a 6 and don't drive very hard, valvoline is ok.
I really prefer synthetics for a high preformance engine. Name your own brand. but if you prefer what you have, change frequently.

I personally like Valvoline, use it in all of my vehicles. And I do run my 235 hard, too. The only thing I would do different would be to use straight 30wt instead of a multi-grade. The Chevy 6 seems to run happier on a staight weight oil.
About the only oil I would tell you stay away from at all costs is Quaker State. I've seen what Quaker does to the insides of an engine. Very nasty.
I will agree with gazim on frequent changes, every 3 months or 3000 miles, don't forget the filter if you have one. As far as additives go, you shouldn't really need any, but if you run anything, I would suggest either Marvel Mystery Oil or Lucas Oil Stabilizer. I've used both, and they do work.
I'm still trying to gather information on synthetics in old engines, seems some say yes and others say not to use it in an older engine. Right now, Royal Purple is the only manufacturer of 30wt synthetic, so that may be the best choice if you do try it.
Oh, and one more thing. For draining the old oil, get the biggest drain pan you can find. The smaller ones will just lead to the splatter mess that you unfortunatly had to experience.

I'm open for all the advice. I know this subject went around about 3wks ago. It was a coin toss between valvoline and castrol. I did see the royal purple there. Have never used synthetics.May have to give it a try. Should we classify the 235 as high perf. because of its age or what. I never thought of it as hi perf. But don't want to loose it because of cheap oil.
Ken

I like both Valvoline and Castrol, Pennzoil is the kind that I won't buy.
Myself, I wouldn't put synthetic oil in anything old. In the past, the vehicles that I used synthetic in, always seamed to be major leakers later on.
When changing the oil in one of my trucks, I usually raise up the drain pan by putting it on a couple blocks of wood, that way it doesn't splash as much.

John

Boy I knew were going to get a lot of advice on this. I am using quaker synthetic, but never had a problem with regular quaker. About 20 years+ ago both quaker and pennzoil were streight parifin oils and left a lot of sludge in your engine. I had no problems using quaker for 10 yrs now. My 62 is high reving and uses a 195 thermostat. That is one of the reasons that I started using the synthetic. I use Lucas additive on a regular basis.

My personal preference is Valvoline. I have used it for over 200,000 miles in my '92 GMC 350 V-8 that I run HARD all the time, never any bearing failure or oil related problem. Every time I drive that truck I turn it 5000 RPM regularly. It is in my '54 GMC as well, I use 30 weight in everything, I don't like multiple viscosity oils.

If you use a good name brand oil, change it on a regular basis, you'll never have a problem. The myth that you can go 10-20K miles on a synthetic oil is more harmfull that regular oil that gets changed regularly.

As for me, I run 10W30 or 10W40 Valvoline multi-grade in everything and everything gets used pretty hard. I've never had an oil related breakdown yet. I've been turning wrenches for over 30 years too. The key is to keeping it clean.
Scott

Well it looks like in a few weeks if I have time for another change, I'll stick with a 30 wt. in valvoline or castrol. I not decided yet if I will use a syn. or not. This truck is only for play. Some times its nice to go back to simple and slow. It probably gets 15 to 20 miles a wk. It does not have a filtering system on it though, so frequent changes will be important.
Thanks all Ken

I've been using Quaker State in my cars and trucks since I was 16. My current ride has a half million kilometres on it and runs like new. I've heard comments about the downside of Quaker State but obviously have yet to experience them. I've also heard how bad Fram filters are. I use them too.
I've been using QS 10W30 in my 235 for 10 years however a mechanic friend says it would be better with straight weight.

my feeling on the oil subject is this , Napa brand oil is valovoline in a Napa package , but it is cheaper WHY? ...but taht is onna them there mysteries of life .
If ya change your oil every 2500 to 3000 like ya should ....heck Napa Brand is just as good as any other , i never got into teh synthetics as i change all in my vehicles before tey hit 3 grand .I am with 48Big...KEEP CLEAN OIL IN IT AN NO PROBS !

FYI: The oil companies made a change to the formulation of oil not too long ago.

Basically, anything that has that starburst on it that says "For Use in Gasoline Engines" doesn't have nearly the needed amounts of the ZDDP additive in it that helps reduce engine wear when the oil starts to go after 1500 miles or so.

You will want to be careful if you have the "Flat Tappet" type of cam -- and virtually all of us do, whether we're talking Stovebolt 6 or SBC/BBC. Without ZDDP, the lobes on the cam will end up wearing down, and then you will need to replace it.

Newer engines (post late 1990's) will have a "Roller Tappet" type of cam, and these can take any sort of oil that you can throw at them. (For instance, my 3800 V-6 in my 1999 Pontiac has a roller tappet cam, and I use regular standard-issue 10w30 oil in that.)

The reason the oil companies reformulated the oil a few years back was because the Automotive companies asked them to. Aparently, they're supposed to be warrantying the catalytic converters up to 120k miles nowadays, and the phosphorus in ZDDP buggers up their innards substantially short of that, and if you've ever replaced one, you know they aren't cheap.

Diesel oils still have the additiive (Rotella T, Delo 400) and so do just about everyone's racing oils (Valvoline's VR-1 comes to mind). The easiest way to make sure is to turn the bottle over and read the fine print on the back. Look for the ILSAC GF-3/GF-4 ratings on the back of the bottles, and the aforementioned "starburt" on the front. If it has either one, put it back and reach for something else.

This is an across the board change on both "Dino" and Synthetic oils. Whatever you do, make sure you've got the the right stuff, or you'll end up like Beaver 53 with 3 blown V-8's in 3 years.

If you can't find anything that has ZDDP in it, go to your GM Dealership and ask for a bottle of the engine break-in addititive -- I think they call it Engine Oil Supplement. It is, according to several forums, pure ZDDP, and will augment your oil nicely.

STP has 2 types of oil additives that might work as well. The blue bottle is ZDDP and Paraffin, which I will never purposely put into my engines, and the red bottle is supposedly just ZDDP, but I have yet to read this in more than one place.

As for oil weight...

Check the shop manual, but I think that 10w30 is recommeneded for a 1960 235. Dunno about the SBC, but I'd assume it's similar.

I used Rotellat T 15w40 in my 216 when I changed it last week, and while I think it may be a bit thin @ 160° - 180°, it's got a thicker top number, so it should be darn close to 20 or 30 once the engine warms up.

I'm thinking about ordering a case of SAE 20 (They make a Rotella in that grade) and giving it a try in the spring.

Brendan,

I just want to get this straight in my mind..the major automotive manufacturers requested that the major oil manufacturers take the anti-wear additives out of the oil so it wouldn't foul the catalytic converters. I sure would hate to spring for a new catalytic converter...they must be much more expensive than a new engine...right! I think an important part of this puzzle has been overlooked or misunderstood.

Stuart

They went to Roller Cams in the 90's (in fact, IINM, they started rolling them out in the 80's on some models), and figure that anyone who has a "Flat Tappet" cam is in the minority.

Of course, this did backfire (HUGELY) as many people have found out the hard way.

Though, most FLAPS people who are worth anything at all know about this, and will warn you if they know you've got something old, or if you're buying a specialty cam.

I really went to town when I researched this...

When was actually the last year regular motor oils stopped having zinc ?

I have used multigrade oils on my daily late 235 from 1995 until I switched to Rotella SAE 30 last year.
I got hydraulic lifters and never had any cam issues.

It seems the danger with cam failure is more about the break-in period.
Can anybody describe what happens during break-in without zinc in the oil that causes cams to eventually fail?

I believe it was 2005 or 2006, but I can't remember exactly.

The stories that I've read do say that they added the special oil supplement that was suggested by the cam manufacturer (in the cases I read, GM's EOS) as directed for the break in period, and then stopped adding it after break in was completed and ended up with a worn out cam 9-13 months later. Granted, these were mostly V-8's, and I'm sure that they were a little hotter than your everyday cam, and that the drivers were pushing things, but still...

That recent?
Glad I switched to Rotella right away, when I first read about flat tappet cam failures, last year.

I thought I was years too late and wondered why my engine never had problems.

So I guess, soon we will know how much longer older engines will keep running on regular (now reformulated without zinc) oils, as most still use these oils.

Brendan,

I looked around in various places for info on this subject. It was a hot item some time ago, but I think there is lots of Voodoo mixed in with it.

These are the conclusions I have come to;

Zinc in current motor oils was reduced, not removed.

Reduced zinc levels in modern gas engine oils can lead to premature cam failure when using aftermarket high lift cams in conjunction with high valve spring pressures.

These failures usually occur during a initial break in period as the lifters and cam wear into each other and high loads are developed.

Modern gas engine oils will not adversely affect flat tappet engines with stock valve train components and camshafts, especially after they are broken in properly.

Modern gas engine oils have no adverse affect on the stock engines usually seen on this site. Light spring pressures and mild cam grinds found in these engines perform fine with any modern day oil.

This is the deal as I see it!

Stuart

There is a lot of good info here. For my two cents, I use Penzoil (have for 30 years) and Fram filters with no problems.
As to using straight 30W, I did that with a GTO I once had and it worked great till winter came. It got into the teen's and the motor refused to turn over. Ended up with a heated dipstick for parking overnight. Next oil change I went back to 10W30 and no problems.

The threads that I was reading were on higher-end cams -- in Cadillac engines. I realize that they are apples and oranges, but personally, I'd rather buy oil that has the "old" amount of ZDDP (zinc and phosphorus) to MAKE SURE that I don't have to take the 216 apart to put a new cam in it because it wore down prematurely from something that was preventable.

It's cheap insurance -- which is the deal as I see it -- and if you like, we can agree to disagree.

Stay away from Penzoil. Lost 3 engins in last 3 years. Lack of ZDDP I think.

Definitly staying away from that. Heard that loud and clear.Thanks for the advice.
Ken

another 2 cents worth, I have used both straight 30 and multi grade oils for about 20 years in antiques. Mostly motorcycles though, they rev fairly high and run hot. No problems at all, just keep your oil clean. The oils today are far better then what they had in the good ol days I've always been told, just keep it clean. I took a look at synthetic oil the other day, could not believe the price. I will stick with the cheap stuff, it has worked good for me. My 39 Indian has run about 50,000 miles on 30wt, I run 20 - 50 in my Henderson, straight 30 in my truck, good luck.

straight 30 in my 49 3600, but i have ran 10w30 synthetic Mobil 1 in my 1994 chevy truck (since brand new in 94) it has a 350 v8 and 196,000 miles without a single problem, it starts easy weather its 105*, or -5* degrees and doesn't burn or use oil, runs great and has survived 2 teenage drivers- so it was driven hard, so Mobil 1 has my vote

I have had my '48 for forty years. Rebuilt the engine 35 years ago. Only ever use straight 30wt but change oil every 1000 miles. Should be good for another 40 years.............

littlebuddie