The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk Realistic Speeds for Stock 'Bolts?

So, I know these trucks aren't meant to be speed-demons out of the box. But I am concerned about my potential truck not being able to keep up with highway traffic. I've heard of trucks that won't go over 45... but my Dad tells me I should have no problem cruising at 70+.

So, for a stock 216 with a 3-speed, what kind of top-gear speeds can I reasonable expect, given an engine in good tune and a good tranny?

Go to Rady's Ring and Pinion Site (Use Google). It has a calculator. Remember, Top gear is 1:1 and your engine is working too hard at 3000 RPM. At a guess, at 2800 RPM (pushing a 216 pretty hard), with a 3.57:1 rear and 30" tires, that's about.....70 mph. That engine would be screaming. Most will try to cruise at 2200 rpm. That gives about 55mph. If your rear is a 4.10 or your tires are smaller, your speed will be lower.
PS Don't trust the speedo unless you know it's the original gearing, and you have original sized tires. If anything changes, the speedo gear has to be changed to recalibrate the speedo.
Good luck! We're counting on you!

1955 1st stock 235 stock rear end. My speedo
does not work but anything over 50 at least for
my truck and I would get a tad worried. If you had the disk brake deal you might be more comfy at higher speeds. My tires could be taller which would help., but again it's the brakes that worry me not the rpms etc...

big red,

don't push that 216 too hard. especially if it's the original engine. 70+ is way beyond what these engines were designed to perform at. if highway speeds are what you are after, look into new gearing first, then engine/tranny.

the 50, 3/4 ton, 4-speed that i drive daily doesn't see anything over the indicated 40mph (actually 45mph) but i don't drive highway or freeway with it either.

i'd say with a 216, 3 speed, you would only be able to push it slightly faster than 50mph and still run within a comfortable rpm range.

if you do decide to upgrade engine/tranny/gearing, don't forget to upgrade brakes too. not a good idea to get a lot of "go" when you don't have a lot of "whoa!".

My stock '49 3600 with a 216 can't get much above 40 and that's winding it out pretty good. My '48 3100 with a '54 235 can go slightly faster but not much. If I can't get somewhere on side roads I take my wife's Lexus. If I were interested in more speed I would want more confidence in my suspension, and brakes first. But I don't know much anyway.

If you have a 1/2 ton, it probably has 4.11 gears. you can get 3.55 gears to help increase top end speed, and fuel economy. those gears should get you to 65.

Been driving mine for a little over a month, and it would seem, if the speedo is accurate, 40-45 is about all the 216 3 speed with 4:10's seems comfortable doing.

My 65 HP three main bearing 206 with 4.11 gears and 27 inch tires has no problem maintaining 55 MPH and CAN hit 65, but I don't allow it to do so. People just aren't used to the noise these old things generate at highway speeds.

Stock 235 in a 49 3100, with 3 speed and a 4:11 rear. I drive mainly at 35-40 mph but have gone to 55. My tires are out of round and at 50 the truck vibrates/shakes. At 55 it goes away but I am still not comfortable at anything beyond that. Even 55 is too fast for me. I do not need to use freeways basically because there are none here!When I get new tires I will still drive at these same speeds.

My 1958 Chevy 1/2 ton three speed with 235 was pretty comfortable at 60mph. Anything much over that and it seemed like it was starting to scream a little. The 261 in it now takes 65 really nice, and it doesn't care how steep the hill is either.

I have a 1946 3600 Chevy with a [1949] 216, stock 4 speed, and stock 4.55:1 gears in the rear.

On a flat, straight run, my friend tells me that I've done 50mph. My dad once clocked me at 47mph. (My speedometer doesn't work) I freely admit that I was pusing it a little -- but that was before the Tach, so I don't know how high I was revving.

Anyway...

My 4 speed has the following ratios:
1) 7.06:1
2) 3:48:1
3) 1.71:1
4) 1:1
R) 6.98:1

A 3 Speed from the same vintage will have the following ratios:
1)2.94:1
2)1.68:1
3)1:1
R)2.94:1

A three speed will make no difference in your speed; Your speed will be hiding in the differential. A 1946 3100 has a diff with 4.11:1, which can do 50(ish) comfortably.

If you'd like to go fast in your 'bolt, buy a half ton and get a ring and pinion kit. They make one that has 3.55:1 gears, which will get you about 60mph. If you want to go faster than that, then you're looking at either an overdrive transmission (like the T5) or a different axle (probably off of a car).

It's already been said, but it bears repeating. If you make it go faster, make it stop better, too. Upgrade those brakes. Really. You don't need to do discs, but definitely do something.

Personally, I like the fact that I can pull trees with my truck.

I don't know much either but the 1st thing I would try would be tall radial tires. Makes a GIANT difference in how smooth the truck moves at highway speeds and how hard you grip the steering wheel(much better and easier handling IMO). Sure my O.D. helps but the tires are the magic. I also believe that if your brakes are in working order, they can easily handle taller radials and higher gears w/ speed up to 65-70.

If you go much more then 50 those babbit bearings will take a beating from the weight of the old iron pistons and youll end up with a blown engine.

The 216s a splash oiler to. Not good for fast drivin. I never take mine above 50. And usually no higher then 45 and that sounds pretty wound up as is.

Jeff

Goofball - yer dad is dreamin!!!
65 flat out in yer truck would be unlikely, as the guys are tellin ya, cruising at much over 50 will result in you needing a new engine real soon, tho you should be able to hold 50 w/ occasional runs to 55 - especially downhill

Bill

I remember travelling about 600 miles in my old '53 half ton,no speedometer,but with its '57 235 I cruised it at 3200 rpm all the way. Flagged a patrol officer on the way home on the interstate and checked my road speed against his speedo,and he was showing 71 mph. The guys are right,tall tires make a big difference. I was running 7.50X16's at that time. Truck seemed pretty happy at that speed.
Speed

Run it over 50 at great risk. These old trucks didn't have a lot of horsepower so they were geared low to compensate. You can get lower ratio gear sets but they're expensive. As red58 said, your dad is dreaming.

If you listen carefully, your 216 will tell you in plain english that 50 mph is it's red line. Mine does.

Echo all of the above -- I have a babbited 235 in my completely stock '49 3800 with the SM420 4-speed and 48 MPH is about top end. I think I went over 50 once but the truck told me not to do that again.


John

Hey I would if I where you get rid of the 216 for a 235 or better something with a full oil system they will hold up to a little bit higher RPM's but listen to what these guy tell you I have done 65- 70 with a different rear it had a 3.23 and it tended to lay down in the begining. If you take it on the freeway make sure you have alot of room Between you and the car ahead also you can control the way you drive but not the way they drive!

Goof if you told us what model your truck is I missed it. Since the rear gears and empty weight vary with model it does make quite a bit of difference.

But regardless, an old babbit pounder isn't going to go real fast very long...

My 51 is running a bored out 261 and overdrive tranny with 3.50 gears. P215/75R15 tires on the back, 4 wheel disc brakes. At 1750-1800 RPM in OD I am running 60 MPH. 2000 RPM is almost 70 MPH and the pickup is quite stable and predictable at this speed.

Before I did all this work, with the same tires on the 4.11 torque tube, 40 MPH was as hard as I wanted to push the tired 235 I used to have. I would never push a 216 that hard. I think at 40 mph the engine was running 3000-3500 rpm.

It seems to me that if you can lower the R's enough, it doesn't matter how oldie the motor is. But there are other considerations. With a 350 engine, my '57, 3600 can go over 65 mph and more, but do I want to??? Now that I put 19.5 inch wheels on it, the R's have been greatly reduced. However those speeds exceed the truck's technological ability to gofast without serious upgrades to the steering and suspension. You can gallup on a camel but would you want to????

My 61 has a 235 and 4 speed manual but I am unsure of my rear gear. Everything is stock except the tires, they are 30" so they are a bit taller than stock. I can cruise at 60 pretty comfortably. I rapped it all the way out to 80 one time, never gonna do that again! I can go 65-70, but the engine is working too hard for my taste. I usually just cruise nice and slow (60ish) in the slow lane and let people fly by me.

I actually enjoy the speed that my truck goes. It allows me time to hang out and look at things. I used to be a speed demon, get there as quick as possible type. But the two cars that I have now, my 'Bolt, and my Champ are not fast. I find that they have taught me how to slow down and enjoy my trip.

Kyle

I got my beautiful "BOLT" up to 70 mph
..Down a steep hill, out of gear....with the wind.


CLiff(speedy)59

Here's some other gearing ratios (Straight from my Palm Pilot) that might help you in your calculations.

4-Speed (Muncie SM420)
1st 7.06:1
2nd 3.58:1
3rd 1.71:1
4th 1.00:1
Rev 6.76:1
Lubricant capacity: 6.25 pints
Ref.: SM 420

3-Speed Saginaw (Chevrolet)
1st 2.94:1
2nd 1.68:1
3rd 1.00:1
Rev 3.14:1
Lubricant capacity: 2

3-Speed Wide Ratio T89C (Borg-Warner)
1st 3.17:1
2nd 1.75:1
3rd 1.00:1
Rev 3.76:1
Lubricant capacity: 2.75

3-Speed Overdrive-Locked In R10Q (Borg-Warner)
1st 2.00:1
2nd 1.18:1
3rd 0.70:1
Rev 2.07:1
Lubricant capacity: 2+1

3-Speed Overdrive-Locked Out R10Q (Borg-Warner)
1st 2.85:1
2nd 1.68:1
3rd 1.00:1
Rev 2.95:1
Lubricant capacity: 2+1

I'm looking at a '51 Chevy 3100, bone stock. 216 straight six, 3-on-the-tree. Standard Cab. Neither I nor the current owner know what the rear gear ratio is, unfortunately... and he never drove it except around his neighborhood, up to 35mph. The previous owner (to the current) had the truck most of it's life, almost 40 years, in Charlotte. It runs fine, but will need new master cylinder and brake lines, as it's been sitting 10 years. But the body is perfect, no corner rust, no dents, no ripples, no bondo. All it needs is a little trim work... the paint is even good! It still has the 16-inch wheels, shod in polyglas tires.

But she purrs just dandy, and started without a cough the first press of the starter. As far as I know, except for regular service, the engine has never had any major repairs or alterations.

I put an overdrive in a 1954 and was cruising at 75 at 2000 RPM. It had radial tires and was quite comfortable to cruise on the freeway at that speed. The brakes were stock, but with new lining and freshly turned drums, it stopped fine for first stop, but experienced some brake fade after repeated brake use. My 1954 GMC 100 has had the rear end gears changed to 3.08 and it goes around 65 at 2000 RPM with stock 248 GMC and it's not straining at all, again stock brakes all rebuilt work fine.

I'd like to maintain it as-is, with just the normal level of maintainance and a little cosmetic touching up (new/rechromed grille, emblems, hubcaps, etc.) so I don't plan on yanking the engine and swapping it for anything else. The trans shifts fine, though for practicality, I *might* consider swapping for an OD unit... I dunno. The truck's never been apart, I'd kinda like to keep it that way. The rear gearing seems to be the way to go for a bit of added pep... I may look into that upgrade. I don't want speed=racer here... just enough so that if I'm on the highway, I need not fear getting rear-ended in the slow lane.

I try to stick to the back roads with my 38 for that reason. I have the 3.73 rear on my coupe so I run about 55 & sometimes up to 60. With the stock rear gear 50MPH would be about all you'd want to safely push your truck. I do take my coupe on the highway but I keep a close watch on the rearview mirror when I do.

Big Red Goofball:

If I were looking at that truck -- and it sounds pretty close to cherry to me -- I'd leave it alone... If for no other reason than historical preservation.

(Of course, it doesn't hurt that I've got a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality.)

Obviously, you'd have to examine your needs/wants and see if it will meet them.

There are two ways to make your truck's top speed higher. Change the gearing (Tranny, Tires, Differential) or increase the RPM range of the engine. (or both).

Safely driving faster means better brakes and suspension.

To make that truck safe on the freeways without permanently altering it, you could get a new ring and pinion set for the rear differential, radial tires, tube shocks, put a set of sway bars on the front and back, and put on a front disc brake conversion kit.

3.55 for the rear diff would be nice, 3.08 would be better, though harder to find. Maybe you could find a car torque tube with 3.08 and swap just the ring and pinion into your differential. With 3.08 gears you could happily cruise at 65.

None of those changes are anything you couldn't undo in an afternoon except the ring and pinion, which might take a saturday.

If you want to drive the truck around, the most bang for your buck safety wise and drivability is gonna be: Radials, Brakes, Tubeshocks, Turnsignals and Ring & Pinion gears. Another option that wouldn't require permanently altering your truck is a Saginaw 4-speed, like the conversion offered by Patrick's. Patrick and his son PHillip are both very helpful and will answer any questions you have.

http://www.patricksantiquecars.com/order.htm

If you just want to show your truck and trailer it around, don't touch it.

HEY "BIGRED" guys what if you rebuilt the 216 with modern bearings/pistons/rods/ and used the 355 gears from jim carters would it be safe to run a 216 up and down the hiway at 50-60mph?

My 51 half ton doesn't feel good any past 45. I have purchased the new gear set for the same reason, just to be safe on the busy streets I have to drive in town. Haven't got it in yet though.

With the proper gearing a babbetted 216 can easily run highway speed. The 3.55 gearset would be a great leap in that direction. I've been told by the owner of a 39 sedan that he regularly drives 70 BUT he has had aluminum pistons put in his 216 to lessen the strain on the babbetts. I don't know the ratio of his rearend. The main problem that keeps the babbetted 216/235 from running highway speed is the low rear gear and the cast iron pistons. As stated above I run my 38 with 3.73 gears at 55 most of the time and up to 60 at times without problem.

One thing I'll add is if you change the gearing/tire size, re-calibrate the speedometer. I put 30" tires and swapped the trans for an O/D unit that was originally from a 4.10 geared station wagon. I knew that it was off, seemed to only be around 5 mph at 45 indicated. Well, a couple pf weeks ago, I took it out and decided to open the 235 up. Cruised nicely at 2500 rpm, 65 indicated, so I opened it up a little more. I held steady at 3000 rpm in O/D, 80 mph indicated. When I got home I ran the numbers to see how far off it really was. Turned out I was doing about 100 mph. Needless to say I ain't doing that again.

So far, I like the idea of swapping the rear gears for 3.73 or 3.08 gears. Thankfully, I have no need to pull any treestumps.

Will a later model OD actually fit on a torquetube 51 3-speed tranny? I was reading on it this afternoon, and the book said they would only retrofit as far back as the 2nd series '55...

The Borg-Warner overdrive was only used on open driveshaft (post '55) trucks. There was a company that retro-fitted them to torque tube drive, they were called Overdrive Inc. I don't know if they are still in business though.

I don't know what rear end my 62, 3/4 ton has but 60mph is about it.

Y'all must see the movie "Worlds Fastest Indian".

I'm inspired by Longbox going 100. I think I'll take my '57 dump truck out to the salt flats...

LOL...you make a '57 dump truck do 100MPH on a flat surface, I'll buy the Moonshine...

...and I loved that movie.