The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop Aftermarket header bolts loose?

Have a almost new crate 350 with aftermaket "Sanderson" headers installed in my ride. I can't keep the mounting bolts tight. Especially the rear ones. What's the 'trick' to get the bolts to stay tight? Thanks in advance.

what gaskets are you using? have you measured the depth of the holes compared to length of bolts? how long are the bolts? what did you torque them to?

Bill

There are header bolts with locking clips out there. Maybe made by ARP. Check with your local speed shop.

locking header bolts.

The trick: Stage 8 Locking header bolts

Beltfed,
You could always drill a hole in the head of the bolt across perpendicular to the threads. Loom a piece of wire through the bolt hole and then onto the adjacent bolt, twist wire tight and WHALAA! WOrked for me on an old El Camino I used to have. Brian

There's a really neat cast iron accessory called an "exhaust manifold". Installing a set of them is the only surefire way to avoid dealing with loose header bolts.
Jerry

And find a way to install the header or the manifold WITHOUT soft gaskets, like the factory did, then the bolts will stay tight.
Comments?

Amen to Jerry's post!!
Scott

Gasket material makes a big difference, some will continue to compress till they cut right through. Try a thinner harder gasket, or go with the lock bolts. The safety wire mentioned above would be a neat option and not to hard to do. Studs might hold a little better, you can run them in tight then use nuts and lock washers.

What does the flange of the header look like on the gasket side? Can it be ground a little to flatten it out? Some header makers are terrible at this, some get it right. The wider and flatter it is, the better it will seal.

Joe

Thanks much for all the input. Now it's question and answer time. I can't get a torque wrench on most of the bolts due to space restriction, so it's German torque (goot und tight) on them. As a retired miltary aircraft 'wrench' I'm very familiar with safety wiring. I recall that it is not used to keep the bolt at proper torque so much as it is used as a visual inspection aid to see the fastener hasn't loosend. With that said, it could very well work. I opted for headers as they look better and help the engine breath better. Looking into the locker bolts. Thanks to all.

I know what your saying concerning access to the bolt heads. I ended up using Allen head ( socket type ) bolts on my headers. For the heads I can't get a wrench on, I bent an old Allen key at about a 30* angle.

Dead-soft copper gaskets are the trick. Two years now and no re-torque after the initial heat cycle.

britcon is right with the allen heads in a lot of situations. I've got the small hex head bolts on my pickup and have had no trouble in over 10 years. It is tough to get to a couple of the bolts though!

The Ram'sHorn cast headers solve the problem plus they helpthe engine breathe better. Some old scrap yards have them. or pay the big $ at speedway.

The idea that headers breathe better is true only if you're running your engine at high rpm a majority of the time. They definitely have their place, but I find that manifolds are better for a street vehicle.

I don't see torque being an issue, just get them nice and tight, but they will keep backing off, that's a common issue with header bolts.

After doing extensive dyno testing on round track race engines, (at least 300 dyno runs) I pretty much got over the "headers breathe better" myth. Unless you're willing to custom-build a set of equal-length header tubes and adjust the length for a specific torque gain in a particular RPM range, the only purpose for a header is eye candy. They dramatically increase underhood temperature, and when, not if they start leaking, they destroy spark plug wires. I also got over believing in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and honest politicians!
Jerry

...jerry, you just have a way of putting things in perspective

I have a set of headers laying under one of my work tables but decided against them for my panel. I put on a set of 283 ram horns I traded for. I think they look better than the "eye candy"

I have bought some of the aftermarket cast iron ram horns for around $60 each (China).

Do they fit without a lot of cleanup on the castings, maybe evening up the block/head fit on a belt sander or a milling machine? Lodge cast iron cookware is made in China now, and the quality is pretty good, but nothing like the foundry in Tennessee used to produce.
Jerry

Back to the original question and assuming that you already invested in the headers and exhaust.

Even though Sanderson grinds the flanges and does not require anything more than sealant I run a copper gasket and good bolts. If your using the black oxide bolts that came with the headers try using ARP 6 point header bolts as they have a proper rolled thread. I keep the originals to mock up my next build.

I have used the stage 8 locking fastners and they work great once installed but it can be difficult getting the clips on if you have big hands. Breslin Performance in AZ made some locking bolts that used a center pin to lock a split bolt in place. I think they are out of business now and wish I had a bought a few extra sets.

I use 6 point ARP bolts since you often have to use an open end to get to the bolts inside a radius bend. If you run stainless bolts be sure to use anti-sieze on them and look for the high temp version that has copper in it. That goes for the Stage 8 products too.

I have two trucks with Sanderson headers and one car with orignal rams horns. At the end of the day its your truck enjoy it.