The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts Special License Required?

Last week, I was having a discussion with some buddies, and the topic of large trucks, specifically a 2-ton AD grain truck I was trying to help someone sell came up.

One fellow told me, here in Colorado you had to have a commercial drivers license to drive and insure one, because of the weight they're capable of hauling.

Have any of you come across a similiar experience or know differently? He claims his insurance company wouldn't even cover him until he could prove he had a commercial license???

Not sure if it varies in your state, but in Pennsylvania, the max gross weight for a regular license is 26,000.

Anything above that requires a commercial license.

Air brakes are also an issue.

If you are planning to buy this for exhibition purposes, you can lower the GVW rating to allow a regular license. This is fine unless you plan to haul heavy loads.

I just lowered mine from 33,000 to 25,000 for this purpose. This should also not be a problem to insure.

I havent ever heard of somebody needing a special licence to drive a two ton truck, so long as they don't have air brakes.. there seems to be in most states a special licence required for trucks with air brakes.

U-Haul will rent way larger than 2 ton trucks to 18 year old kids going to college with nothing more than an operators licence.. and I know Penske and Ryder will rent 20+ foot box trucks that haul way more than 2 tons the same way.

What they both said;Operators lic. good to 26000,Here you need an Air brake endorsement from NYSDMV after that. But ck your state for specific rules/endorsements

Same here in Iowa, unless you are getting paid to drive, then you need a CDL. School buses are another catagory too,
Scott

Just to add to it.....I flew down to Conway Ark. in 99 with My Wife and drove back 2 brand new busses from Ward/Amtran.And thats with a Class'A' NYS lic.Didn,t need the pass endorsement cause of no passengers. Unless I,m wrong all are under Fed guidelines now (after 9-11) so definately check into it. Fumblin You are Def. Right... my daughter had her oper. lic. 2 WEEKS and was allowed to drive her cousin(who rented it) in a U HAUL down to N. Carolina and they didn,t even ask to SEE HER LIC

Fumblin, You made a really good point with the rental truck scenario. I wish I had thought of that one during our conversation.

I'm not looking to purchase this one, but just curious about it after the first individual told me about his experience.

Thanks for the help guys.

State of Washington has a limit too. I think it is 26,000 pounds, but my memory could be faulty.

My '52 6400 has a GVW of 16,000 pounds, so its well within that limit.

Farmers and emergency workers are also exempt from CDL requirements

Question for Lonnie:
How can you "lower" the GVWR of a chassis to suit your purposes since that is set by the manufacturer? It is very difficult to comply with all the regulations when attempting to raise the GVW by adding axles, heavier tires, etc. Just as difficult to explain to a weighmaster that your non CDL license is good on a truck with a 33K manufacturers certification. Those guys have no sense of humor in my experience. re-certification of a chassis is an extremely involved process.

The CDL limit is at 26K everywhere now by federal statute. Just go look at some new cab & chassis and see how many are now certicfied as 25,900 GVWR so the U-Hauls and furniture stores can have a driver.

I don't think that in Michigan you have to have a CDL endorsement if you are (a) a farmer, (b) a mechanic. And, as it's been said, the line is at 26,000 lbs.

Either that, or all of the farmers and mechanics that I know are driving large trucks without the proper paperwork.

School Bus Drivers have a CDL Class C or D (Can't Remember which), and the Linemen at the Electric company have a minimum of a CDL Class A.

My 46 is 3400 lbs (at least, that's what it says on the title... I've not actually verified it) so I don't have much to worry about.

Just curious, any of you know the GVW of a 48 2-ton?

I would imagine you could hit that 26K number pretty easily with a load of grain or ?

The guy that originally was telling me about the issue, said because the truck was capable of hauling the weight, his insurance company wouldn't cover him without the CDL.

The guy who bought the '50 2 ton from me thought it weighed somewhere in the neighborhood of 7,000 lbs.

I'm not sure where he got that number, but both he and the guy he was talking with about picking it up for him thought that was the empty weight with a wood grain/beet box on the back.

Now my '46 2 ton says right on the cowl tag MAX GROSS WEIGHT 15,000LBS which I assume means the total weight of the truck, plus a 2 ton load.

The '50 2 ton tag says MAX GROSS WEIGHT 16,000lbs.. a full 1,000 lbs more than the '46 2 ton.

I'm no professional trucker or anything, but i'd guess MAX GROSS WEIGHT and GROSS VEHICLE WEIGHT (GVW) are the one in the same thing.

The specific weight of the '48 your talking about is probably going to be higher than usual since it's got an all steel bed on it, dosen't it?

Either way, it sounds like the truck is only certified to weigh 16,000lbs (actual truck weight plus load) which is way below the "magic number" of 26,000 that seems to require a CDL.

Here in SD, they don't care what the manufacturer rates the GVW. You tell tham what you want for GVW and pay accordingly. Of course, you can't exceed your GVW. I have my bobbed M35 licensed at 8k lbs. It weighs slightly less than that. This ends up the same cost as regular license. If I had a pickup bed on it, I could license it as a pickup.

There are many trucks that have a larger GVW in the door, that is a maximum rating. It can be lower.

Example... I also have a c-60 that shows 29,000 in the door, but is licensed for 26,000.

My '59 was an original 25,000, but was reclassed to 33,000 back in the 60's. To lower it, I just took a picture of the door plate & sent it in with the paperwork. Obviously getting a tandem lowered to a non-CDL may not be possible, but 1 weight class is usually possible.

You may also have to provide an empty weight as well (unladen weight) for titleing purposes.

Many pickups are also rated higher. Most 1/2 tons have an approx 6000gvw, but are licensed at 5000.

I lowered mine from 33 to 25, so I could get antique plates, which have a 26k limit. This forbids me from hauling anything, but buying a permanent plate for $75 is a lot better than $400/yr. This coupled with antique insurance makes it an affordable toy.

Seems to me,since the CDL is based on Federal standards,the weight limitations that require a CDL would have to be uniform throughout the United States,wouldn't they?
Also,if all you want to haul is yourself and a friend,downsizing your registered weight limit might be okay,but if you regularly haul a load on your truck it's better to bite the bullet and keep it close to the GVW you plan to run at. Once you get in a tangle with the D.O.T. for running overweight in a classic truck,they'll remember you,and it'll get to be a problem from then on. I did my share of overloading the Heck out of my trucks,(towing a 14X60 mobile home with my '57 GMC 1/2 ton,hauling 2-1/4 ton loads of engine blocks and heads on my '62 Chevy one ton) and I learned you might be able to wing it once,but the odds will eventually catch up to you,and it'll mangle the wallet when they finally catch you.
A friend recently pointed out to me that according to the US Constitution, the government can't legally force you to have a drivers license to haul you own belongings on the highway,because by definition,a license can only be required if you haul for hire;but-how much time and money are you willing to spend to argue that point in court?
Sorry-you can have your thread back now.
Speed

My understanding is that it is Federal rules, but the states can be more strict, just not less than the Feds. The limit is 26,000. That is the amount of weight that you are capable of hauling (GVWR), not what you have it registered for or running empty.
The only exemptions are farmers but there are distance restrictions and you must be registered to a farm. Most are 150 miles from your residence and/or in state driving only. If you go out of state, you are required to buy fuel stickers, and all of the stuff truckers have to do.

My question and point has always been that in order to lower the GVW(R)it requires re-certification of the chassis. I really doubt that anyone here is prepared to do that as it is incredibly involved and astronomically expensive. It is why knowledgable people who are in the upfitting business and add tag axles for increased payload leave the stated GVWR as is. To change it would involve crash testing and a whole lot of things and places you don't want to go.

53moneypit,

I lowered the GVW of a truck...it required two different tires on the front axle (USED), and a re-stamping of the vehicle ID tag on the jamb. Total cost was the two used tires! Granted, the gentleman that re-stamped the tag was down the street, and the vehicle was originally purchased by us, from him. He was licensed by California DMV to do this. You are probably correct in your cost estimates of this procedure...my instance was just dumb luck, but pefect for me!

Stuart.

CDL's are under Federal control. I drive a school bus and a P(passenger)and an S(school bus)endorsement are requiered, mine is a class B cdl. My understanding of it on trucks is anything over 26,000 GVWR needs a CDL, unless as earlier stated it has farm tags and the other iformation stated by Taskmaster is correct. The GVWR is the weight of the truck and load combined. I know of one local guy that has a 55 1 that is running antique vehical tags and still uses it to haul his bulldozer to log jobs occasionally. I haven't talked to him about it but I don't believe he's ever had any trouble from law enforcement.

I don't know why anyone would have to recertify a chassis to lower the gvw. The state law of SD states that I set GVW, not the manufacturer of the truck. Check your local laws before you spend any money.

reo_guy,

In my case, I didn't HAVE to recertify to a lower GVW. I WANTED to recertify to a lower GVW because this allowed the truck to be driven by a person who did not have a California CDL.


Stuart.

"Seems to me, since the CDL is based on Federal standards, the weight limitations that require a CDL would have to be uniform throughout the United States, wouldn't they?"

That's It! To drive anything 26,001 lbs or bigger you need a CDL.

The Plates for the truck are a different story and vary by state, but I hear that is the next thing the feds are looking at making standard nation wide.

Here in Utah anything over 10,000 lbs must pass through the Port of Entry when you come up to one, so if your driving a Chevy HD3500 which is rated for 15,000 lbs you have to pass through the port. In Wyoming it is anything over 26,000 lbs.

We do things a little differently here in Canada. ( where I live anyway) We don't look at the GVW of the vehicle but at the number of axles. Your non- commercial licence allows you to drive any 2 axle truck except for a 2 axle "power unit". "Power unit" usually being defined as a vehicle designed to have a 5th wheel mounted. Any air brake equipped vehicle ( including motorhomes etc) means the driver must have an air brake endorsement on his licence, except for farmers,fire apparatus, and "air over hydraulic " systems.

A class of "CDL" is needed for all 3 axle trucks (tandems), buses, and power unit/semitrailers.Also required for taxis, ambulance etc.

The biggest issue I've seen lately is not a straight truck but people who tow trailers in excess of 10,000 lbs (trailer and load). Most jurisdictions use this 10,000lbs towed as the basis for needing a "CDL" licence. Lots of people are out there driving their Duramax dually towing a 32 foot 5th wheel RV who are running illegally, usually because they don't know. Unfortunately ignorance of the law won't help them after a collision when they are being sued for everything they've got and their insurance company has denied coverage.

Here in Colorado - the last time I checked - you have to have a CDL for anything with more than two rear axles, or a tractor-trailer setup (some mobile home movers have a single rear axle). A 2 ton has a single rear axle, so you should be fine. I'd still check with DMV to be sure.

I'm wondering if some of this dialog is missing the point of the question.

When you license your TRUCK for some GVW that has to do with the taxes you are paying. The heavier the load you say you can carry, the higher the tax.

When you license the DRIVER you are certifying the driver is qualified to control a truck with that GVW rating.

I've been told that in Washington (where I live) you can drive a truck bigger than 26,000 without a CDL as long as you own the truck personally, and do not carry a load for anyone else. Otherwise you need a CDL to drive anything 26,000 and up. Airbrakes is an additional endorsement required to operate any truck with airbrakes.

I've not verified these details since my biggest truck has a GVW of only 16,000. I asked some questions when I was looking at a truck with a 26,000 pound rating. I didn't buy that truck, and based on what I learned don't think it will ever be an issue on anything I have.