The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Oil additives...yes or no??

My good Canadian friend and fellow 'Bolter Bill Jesse advises against oil additives like STP, Bardahl, etc. saying they only create problems later down the road, and I respect his opinion. My 216 engine smokes a bit, mostly during the first 5 minutes. I'd like to think an oil additive would not only help eliminate the smoking but would give added protection.

Does anyone have any experience that they would like to share to help me make a decision?

Spot

Back in the 60's and probably through the 80's we sold a lot of STP here in Texas. It's not an overhaul in a can, but it does slow oil consumption and smoking. In fact there is a good chance if your 216 is a Texas truck, it may well have had STP in it before. My father started selling lubricants in the 30's and I still have the business. I used to sell as much as several cases of STP a day and I have never heard a valid complaint on older engines. Make sure the engine is hot and pour it in slowly while the engine is running. Otherwise it can stay in one blob and stop up your oil pickup. I would not recommend it for newer engines.

Spot,

I think 99% of all oil additives are some type of VI improver and being so deal mostly with friction issues. Your problem is a result of normal engine wear after years of use...something is worn out and the sealing function of the motor oil cannot overcome it.

I have no real life experience with trying to revive a worn engine through the use of an oil additive because I don't feel it can be done. Having said that, It certainly wouldn't hurt, from a experimental standpoint, to buy a can of snake oil and see just what it's capable of.

Stuart

Crenwelge, you sound like you have some credibility having had a dad who sold lubricants and additives and you took over the business and are now selling them. I don't think you could sleep at night if you knew they were somehow harmful or at the least, not beneficial. I'll consider your comments an endorsement.

Stuart, I tend to agree with you about a worn engine, but I have also read that certain additives can improve the condition of dry seals, and can reduce the gap between parts to the point that it can reduce smoking, etc. I think I'll put a bottle of STP or the like in the old 6-banger and hope for the best until I can rebuilt it one day.

Thanks!

Chuck "Spot"

I have had good results using "Restore"for high milege engines.

Years ago back in the 60's - 70's they had a oil additive that was called Blue Away and this stopped the engine from putting out the blue smoke. I know a lot of car dealers used it here in the area. But if the engine is smoking it needs to be rebuilt it in my estimation.
62Blue
Don

maybe to help you get by for a month or two but other wise put your money into the real problem.
Me personally I haven't use any additive but maybe once or twice in my life.

Using a heavier oil might help some. I switched from 10w30 Valvoline to 15w40 Coastal brand diesel oil in my 64 (283 V8) and my oil consumption went down a bunch. I know my engine need overhaul soon, but she runs good, I don't drive it alot, and I am not ready to rebuild it yet.

I am not a big fan of additives, especially in new vehicles but I have used STP a few times in the past in old stuff. I've used STP in old tired automatic transmissions and it seemed to give them new life for a good while.

My dad was an oil company employee, he said the petroleum engineers said all motor oils have enough additives in them that no additional additives would materially change anything. They did say that STP was a bad thing to put in any engine, and I personally had a 235 engine blow up that had STP in it and have never had any problems with any 235 other than that. I do not suggest STP in anything.

Good suggestions all. Thanks for taking time to share your thoughts. I know the engines needs rebuilding, or at least a valve and ring job, but I'll have to wait a while for that. It runs pretty well right now except for the mild smoking at start up. I'll have to budget for the rebuild another day.

Spot

My lifters rattled fairly good using Pennzoil 10W-30, and I changed to Shell Rotella T 10W-40 and it helped a lot with that. If you need an additive, use Lucas Oil Stabilizer. Its roughly $7 for a quart bottle, and I felt like it did a good job when used with the Rotella T.

Marvel Mystery oil.
Who knows if it works?
Who knows what evil, lurks in the heats of man?
The Shadow knows...... Buwah ha haha hahaha
The dealers of Blue coal invite you to listen.....

oops, got off topic there.

I don't know if it works.
It does make your oil smell like wintergreen though. And isn't that enough?

My 216 is somewhat tired, I use straight 40, as its thicker and less falls out. When the truck is cold you have to let it warm up and wait for the pressure to drop to 15 at idle. As soon as the oil is warm, after ten miles or so, the idle pressure is down to a reasonable level.

I remember a big hearted babe named Lou from SiLoo, Restore, STP, Marvel and my personal favorite, Bardahl Top End Lube. I liked Bardahl because he guaranteed to chase Blackie Carbon out of your engine. Blackie wore a 30's style robbers mask, big fedora hat and a black trenchcoat. They all had great advertising campaigns.

Now I just collect the old cans and could care less about the contents. So if you have any old oil cans I'm a candidate for them.

Remember "Motor Honey"? or the little pills that you would place in the spark plug holes. Restorations in a can. Sounds too good to be true doesn't it?

What's the deal with ZMAXX. I see it being promoted everywhere. The feds had a case against it at one point but had to back off.

That's a new one on me, never heard of ZMAXX.

Sorry. Spelt it wong. It's zMax

Although I don't like adding additives to my engine oil I have put Lucas in my trans and differential with good results.
I did find a water pump sealer liquid but found out that it was snake oil. All it did was super-saturate the seal so it would expand. Like blowing up a balloon and if you blow too much....! Out comes the water in this case.

For a time I used STP as an assembly lube, until the engines I put together with it started having bearing-related failures. Just to convince myself the problem couldn't possibly be the STP, I put one more engine together that way. You guessed it- - - - -problems with that one, too! Gummed-up oil pump relief valves and subsequent oil pressure loss and bearing noise or worse seemed to be the most common problem.

On a similar note, a series of dyno tests we ran with Slick 50 recorded a documented 5% power LOSS after using the additive according to directions. Those results were corrected for temperature, barometric pressure, and humidity, BTW.
Jerry

I've used STP for years putting engines together and not had a problem. The 261 in my Chevy was put together 25 years ago with STP. Maybe just dumb luck on my part. Otherwise,I don't use oil additives. I just keep my oil changed at the recommended intervals.

I do like the Lucas fuel additive. Seems to help keep the electric fuel pump in the tanks lubricated, but on my carbed engines, no fuel additives either.

I have read just about everything on the web do do with oem oil products. My computer crashed and I lost all the links or I would put them here for you. There is truth to the idea that adding extra stuff to an oem oil package will change its qualities. But since it is already smoking, do you really think a good product will ruin the engine. Even a newly rebuilt engine needs extra additives for proper cam break in. (GM EOS additive).
Crane has their own. Everyone was talking about bad metalurgy and it turned out to be the fact that the OEM manafacturers reduced the amount of ZDP (zinc) in the oils. ZDP is the high pressure additive that keeps tappetss and cam lobe surfaces lubed. It was plugging up Catalytic converters so they are phasing it out. They didn't tell the public, they just did it. The Semi Trucks are getting cat converters now, so the same thing is set to happen to them. Without some ZDP you cam WILL go flat. Most oils have enough left to run an engine but not for break in. Most modern engines have roller lifters so it is no big issue with them. This is all just to prove that abolutes usually are absolutely wrong. I use 1/2 can STP because it has the extra zinc in it (for now), and just short of 1 qt LUCAS oil stabilizer less the volume of the STP. My 305E v6 has a 6qt capacity. The first time I did this, the blow-by from the crankcase STOPPED within 2 minutes of adding the Lucas product. I have used this stuff in IHC engines for years for the same reason and it worked OK, but in my GMC engine, it worked wonders. No more smelly blow by while driving. In the IHC engines, the measurement was different....if it stopped blowing the dipstick out (SERIOUSLY, I AM NOT LYING), it worked.
Does the engine probably need to be desludged & have rings put in it?, probably.... But I bet I get another 20 thousand miles out of it before I rebuild it or switch in my 401 I am building.
Don't go overboard, more is not better, I would wait until I was 1/2 qut low and pour in 1/2 can of stp, the top off with Lucas then add more lucas (up to 1qt till the smoking is livable.
I know, I know, adding 2 DIFFERENT additives...If you just want to control smoking, use just the lucas. It won't help the smoke at start up, that is your valve seals, stems, and I have seen NEW chevys do it. But it will help with light smoking. It also works in Transmissions, I have seen with my own eyes that it brings trans temps down in semi trucks by 40 degrees under load. I have used it in Jeep 3 speeds that howled like a banshee with bad bearings. I am an enemy of "Ronco" products that can be used for everything, but this stuff works, it is not overhaul in a can, and it is "old techology", but it works and it is cheap. I don't know if you Yankees can get it, I think their distribution network is mostly in the south. They sell it at Wal Mart here in OK & texas. AND you might want to look at some of the high mileage oils, check the zinc levels, and you might get by without stp. STP is just a little insurance for me, because GMC V6 cams are hard to find.