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My trailer puller was totaled in an accident about ten days ago. I had long planned to build a '54 GMC 1-ton dually as a trailer puller and now I need either to tackle that project soon or buy something else for trailer pulling.

I've been able to pull a loaded trailer 75+ uphill and want to keep that kind of performance. My driveway is a bit steep and not paved, and I need to be able to climb it even when loaded. The wrecked truck was a nice '89 so it had many amenities but wasn't the luxury wagon you’d get today. I want something comfortable to ride in, easy to operate, and with at least the basics of heat and defrost, and adding a nice stereo system and even air conditioning are things I’d think about. Modern seating is a must for a guy with a bad back.

I prefer automatic transmissions and gasoline motors. I have a couple Chevy 454s and a Cadillac 500 on hand. I’ll probably use a 454 because I have two of those that have run clean and strong recently, the Cadillac has been sitting without running for five years. The wrecked truck was four-wheel-drive and I liked that, but won’t work too hard to build another one.

My trailer is rated at 7,000 but I’d like to be able to pull a 10,000 pound trailer and doing so safely is very important to me.

There are several ways I can approach this project and I’m looking for comments and suggestions. Assume I’m either qualified for the required tasks, or will hire someone who is.

Approach one: Strip the bent body from the wrecked K3500, drop the ’54 GMC body on, and know I’m starting with a 10,000 pound rated tow vehicle and therefore would still have that capacity. Aside from being a lot of work, and assuming the frame isn’t bent this seems like a good way to get everything I’ve described from a running gear and capacity standpoint. The K3500 has a 155 inch wheel base, and the front track means offset wheels and fender modifications.

Approach two: Put the ’54 GMC body parts on a ’72 C20 frame. Use a GM 14 bolt rear. This is 127 inch wheel base, and though still too wide, not nearly as much. With the right wheel choice no body mods would be needed.

Approach three: Put the ’72 C20 IFS and the 14 bolt on the 137 inch ’54 GMC frame. Add power steering and crossmembers for the motor and transmission of choice.

Approach four: Put disk brakes on the stock ’54 1-ton axle and the 14 bolt GM rear on the ’54 GMC frame. Add power steering and brakes.

Variation on approaches three and four are to use a 4400 frame instead of the 1-ton frame, probably shortening the frame to the 1-ton (137 inch) length. The advantage of the 4400 frame is the larger cross section of the frame, making it a bit stouter.

Clearly approach four is the least radical and that might be a good reason to start there. That’s only a good idea if the result is a truck that can pull my trailer, either the 7,000 pound trailer I have today or the 10,000 pound trailer I want.

Thoughts? Comments? Laughter? What do you think?

I am building my own truck, as you know, and sounds like what I want from my truck is about what you want from yours, although I don't expect to go quite so fast with a loaded trailer. I do expect it to go 75 empty, and for most of the time it should handle 60-65 loaded.

Even though I have plenty of time to search for the parts I need, and to find the best possible prices, I figure my truck will cost as much or more than a new 1 ton, 4X4, diesel, crewcab, which I would buy if I were not building my own. I am sure I could cut lots of corners to save money, but a quality, safe, long lasting, easily serviceable, and rebuildable truck is my final goal. To accomplish my goal I don't see how to avoid spending money, for parts mostly, as I have been doing my own work (but may not for the paint).

So, from my experience, I say you should either get serious about building your own truck and admit it will cost more than it's worth. Or buy a new or somewhat used truck. Or perhaps a worn out one like your wrecked truck and swap the drive train.

Grigg

I went truck shopping yesterday and looked at some beautiful trucks that cost a lot more than my first house. I suppose I could pay the $40,000 or $50,000 for a truck but its not what I want.

And if I did it wouldn't be worth the purchase price once I signed the papers and drove it off the lot either. While I'll squeeze my dollars tightly, this really isn't about money, its about preferring an old truck, but demanding modern capabilities.

You're using a 6400 frame as the basis of your project, and later P30 axles if I remember correctly. How have you determined your truck is built heavy enough to suit your needs?

My front axle is from 94 Chevy 3500HD, and the rear an 88 P30, both of these vehicles are rated about or a little more than a "1 ton" and they have good size disc brakes.

The frame is from a 2 ton, and I see no problems there.
The goose neck hitch I will build will help distribute the load out close to the 4 rear spring hangers and incorporate mounts for two air helper springs, whatever trailer tongue weight the axle and springs will carry should not be a problem for the frame.

Springs are made like the 52 1 ton for the front, I will have air helper springs there too so I can adjust if needed, if I have to the springs can have more leaves added.
Rear springs are like the 52 1 ton, but 1/2" additional width, they will probably be strong enough, but the air helper springs will make up the difference if not.

I am trying to build the truck just heavy enough, but not so heavy that it becomes extremely heavy itself. So far I think I am on track. An aluminum flat bed with 3/4" oak deck won't add much to the weight. Two people can easily pick up the aluminum part, the wood may weigh as much as the aluminum.

Not sure what my truck will actually carry when done, but I expect that it will handle about 6,000 lb in the bed and or a 15,000 lb trailer, probably and hopefully more, but that much should satisfy most of my needs.

Grigg

Grigg,
Just to add to the discussion ... why does it (the hauler) have to be 4x4? You know my hauler ('95 Cummins Dodge 3500 dually) and with more than 60,000 miles now, I can't think of a single time when I needed/wanted the 4x4 capability with that truck. I see all these 4x4 duallies/haulers around and wonder where they go that they need 4-wheel drive?

Granted, some people have a need for it, or a desire. And I'm not dissing anyone. I'm just curious.


John

I would say go for a dual rear axle, updated brakes all around, and a goose neck trailer. Something that will put the traction down to the ground and the load weight over the drive wheels should help you up that hill without needing in to have a 4x4. Should give you better stability and control at highway speeds, not to mention a better than 10K max towing weight. But seeing as you already have a trailer might not be the option you're looking for.

just my two bits

I am not sure it does.

Although If I were to buy a new truck it would be, because I have found that it is handy to have from driving my dad's truck. He runs like original tires on his trucks and they tend to get stuck on wet grass, 4X4 is somewhat helpful. For an everyday truck around here with the things we do it's nice. Also helps resale value...
There is a story about a friend and I pulling my dad's 98 f250 out of the mud, up hill, with a model A ford (two wheel drive), Have pictures somewhere.... it's not a story my dad is fond of.

For my 48 diesel truck two wheel drive should be fine. On the rear (dual) I will run the most aggressive 9R22.5" tires I can find, which have about 1" tread depth, but really are not that aggressive in the grand scheme of things. I will also have a selectable locker that activates with air pressure, ARB brand. So with the flip of a switch I can lock the rear axles together. I figure this will be enough for a truck that will primarily be on the road. If not I will have sturdy brackets to attach shackles to both the front bumper and the rear trailer hitch. The front ones will even work with my military tow bar if I should need to drag my truck a long way, no trailer needed.

Grigg

There is certainly a place for four wheel drive but I am convinced most of us are not in that place. I think it has everything to do with keeping up with the Jones's and, as Grigg said, resale value. I have one for the resale. I found out the hard way that you can't hardly give away a two wheel drive in Colorado. I had to go to 5 dealerships before I could even get a halfway reasonable trade offer on my wife's 2WD Dakota. But I also believe that if you can get traction with two wheels it beats the heck out of 4 wheels that won't hook up. I once pulled a friend of mines' 4WD F250 that was high centered completely off my driveway in snow, up a sharp incline and then up a steep driveway with a Ranger. But I was on pavement and he was on air.
(incidently, I won 10 bucks off him for that)

personally i like version 4 as you already many of the parts on hand and less fabrication. i saw your thread on the accident on old gmc site. how much trouble did you have with the guilty parties insurance?

4WD let's you get farther into the boonies before you have to call someone to pull you out.

The only reason for Steve hauling off into the boonies is to save another old relic! Whether for him or me, Many thanks Steve!!!

The better way to drive, if you have a choice, is to get there in 2 wheel drive, and if you get stuck, use 4 wheel drive to get back.

I figure the same idea will work for the selectable rear locker in my 2 wheel drive truck.

Grigg

I've made that call and I've taken the walk out. More than once... When I was a kid long before cell phones we decided that walk was an additional ten miles. I grew up in rual Idaho and most of us had four-wheel-drive toys to keep us out of trouble on weekends.

But Jeff is right, these days if I'm off the pavement its generally pulling a trailer and chasing rusty iron. With the amount of rain we get here, especially in the last couple of weeks, being able to engage a second axle has a lot of appeal.

While I've been using a four-wheel-drive as my tow vehicle for quite a while, I'm not committed to staying that way. Three of my four proposed options are two wheel drive based. And while I may not have said so, all four assume the 18 inch dually type 1-ton wheels, even though that might create some other challenges.

I have most the frame and running gear parts mentioned in my four approaches so collecting and paying for parts isn't a big problem. Time and complexity are factors in the choice more than money, and those might appear to favor option four, because most the pieces are aleady in place. But since the suspension needs to be rebuilt it will all come apart anyway, so making changes may not be a lot more work.

My primary concern is feeling comfortable the resulting truck will handle the load safely. I've never seen a tow rating spec for a truck this old, and kind of doubt anyone has published one. My current trailer limits load at 7,000 pounds but I don't want to loose the ability to pull more.

Grigg I have no question you are building a truck capable of pulling a heavy trailer, but what I don't have is anything I could show a trailer rental place proving either mine or yours is adequate to the task. Its not that I expect either of us to rent trailers, but expressing it that way seems a good way to illustrate what I'm seeking.

Thanks for the responses guys!

I never thought of that, and now that I have I won't again..

As you say, we don't plan to be renting any trailers, but if I were I would have to say that for the most part people around here in that business have some common sense, and if needed they could look at the truck and make the right call. On the legal and paperwork side it may be a problem, but nothing I'm going to worry about.

I'm not sure what your real question is though?

Grigg

my lean towards #4 is also influenced by the fact i'm more of a parts changer than a fabricator. will be watching to see how your project turns out.

I'm asking how a guy knows a truck with whatever hitch, frame, spings and axles, motor and transmission, is up to the job of pulling a trailer that weighs a given amount.

When Chevrolet says that '89 K3500 was rated to pull 10,000 pounds what were they measuring?

If I use the GMC 1-ton frame and add pieces as I've described above, how do I know its good for pulling X,000 pounds? Axles? Springs? Frame? Motor/transmission?

My answer would be the weakest link in the chain determines how much I can pull. But since I don't know what the frame is good for, I can't evaluate that part. I can buy a hitch with the rating I need, I can use axles with known rating, but how do I know that my 1-ton frame will handle the load.

I agree.

About the frame, I would start with the factory recommendation for the truck original to the frame. From there I would evaluate how the hitch mounts and transfers the load to the springs. It's mostly a guess, although I suppose you could get out your structural engineering handbook and get very technical, add a factor of safety and it's still a guess, but closer.

The seat of the pants test on how it handles and how effective the brakes are will probably be the deciding factor, assuming you see no obvious mechanical weaknesses.

Grigg

Steve,
Have you thought about putting a big bolt front clip on your '89 chassis to make the track width look right? People do it with COE's all the time, why not a conventional?
Just a thought,
Scott

Grigg: I guess I need to get a Structural Engineering Handbook. $117 at Amazon so I'm going to look a little further, maybe check the library.

Scott: I've considered about that approach. I have a Chevy 4400 I do plan to part out, and could use its front clip. Downside is that it's a Chevy and I really want to go GMC. I do have a GMC 450 and those parts are even bigger. It's a '53 and I'd rather go with a '54 or '55 1st for the later grill.

The body shop that did the damage estimate on the K3500 says the frame is bent. The remains of that truck are supposed to be delivered here tomorrow and and checking the frame is one of my priorities. Repairing that frame and dropping the body on it is option number one, but also the biggest project of the bunch.

The '89 K3500 is rated to pull 10,000 and I have reashly assumed the gross ratings would not go down, even though total weight might.

Weren't you working on a frame swap in your shop? Is that project finished?

Everyone has their own opinion, but if I were looking for an older classic truck to use as an everyday trailer puller, I would get a Task Force or newer. Much easier to get a V-8 under the hood, and a lot options are more readily available to add some of those other creature comforts.
Just for fun check out entry number 28 in the IRWIPI contest, now that would be the ultimate trailer puller. While you are already there, you may as well vote for it.

John

I am building my 52 4400 chevy (4x4)because up here many roads I travel are no more then beat down grass,not to mention 7 months of winter some years.Snowed again last night LOL

I would enjoy seeing some pictures of that four-wheel-drive 4400. Do you have some posted somewhere?

We've had snow, flood and freezing temps here the last couple weeks, so maybe instead of worrying about towing I should think about fording washouts and surmounting snow drifts.

I fabbed up the chassis for a guy (BradB) and left the body work up to him. He has since started a quest to get moved out to the country (A-hole neighbors turning him in all the time) looking for more room to work and has put the panel truck on the back burner. I did finish my part. In my opinion, the track width was still a little wide but looked OK with the dually set-up. Never got a chance to set it up on the alignment rack though, kinda curious as to how close I could get it to specs.

I would think grafting a body onto a complete drivetrain would be easier than fitting drivetrain components to an old frame. Those older pick-up frames aren't really engineered for performance, just holding up weight. You already have a tried and tested chassis, although it's bent, that's you like for pulling. I would just change the body to change the look, not the performance. I also think the GMC 1 ton would look presentable, as far as track width goes, with 4WD and dually wheels. Sitting a little higher would make it less noticable I think.
Good luck with your project,
Scott

The K3500 was delivered back to me today, and though it was dark and I was working with a flashlight, I now have a better idea what damage it suffered.

The main leaf in the left rear spring is broken at the front mount. Snapped right off. perhaps it was weak and that break means the axle and related parts were not damaged as badly as I feared.

I was able to open the hood, the estimator had not been able to. I suspected the radiator was damaged because I saw antifreeze leaking just after the accident. It clearly came back into the fan, but not much. Aside from the shroud and associated stuff, I did not find any other real damage under the hood.

Most distrubing is the damage to the front of the frame horns. They are both bent, but I can't tell how far back. My worry is that the frame might be distorted by that damage, and that perhaps the front wheel drive has been pushed out of whack.

Ignoring the frame horns, it looks like a new rear spring, wheel and tire, and new radiator, hood, grill, lights and bumper, and piles of little stuff, and the truck could be back on the road.

I'm going to do some research on the cost of these parts, and I really need to verify the damage is limited to what I see, but I can now imagine fixing this truck instead of parting it out. If the frame is okay, but the body damage too expensive, I'm more encouraged that I could rebody this truck and be back in business. I can buy a complete but not running truck for less than $2,000 so that should be my max cost to collect most the parts.

The insurance settlement has not occured yet. If I have cash this weekend I might go truck shopping. If not I'll spend some time getting serious about checking the damage particularly to the frame.

Got picture or two so we can see too?
Scott

I'll probably take some detail photos of the areas I'm concerned about this weekend, but right now all I have are the accident scene photos I took with my cell phone. This time of year I never see my own place in the daylight except on weekends.

Accident Scene Photos

The silver car is the unmarked police car I hit. I took more pictures of it than my truck. In one of the photos you can see a Honda Civic in the background. The Civic hit my rear wheel and spun me into the Impala. Three totaled cars in just a few seconds.

WOW, I hope you and everyone involved made it out OK. Still looks like the truck fared the best though. Hope it's still useable,
Scott

Girl in the Civic seemed fine at the scene, but ended up having a broken foot. The cop took a couple days off work because he was shook up. My sore back has been more sore than it was...

But you're right, no one was seriously hurt. If I had not run for the ditch that Civic would have hit a 6000 pound truck head-on and I'm sure she would have suffered a bit more. All three of us got out of our cars unassisted and walked away. I'm happy with that!

Unless the frame is twisted, or the rear axle bent, the truck is fixable. I doubt either car came out that well. The truck is totaled because its old, but not old enough to have value because its old.

WOW is right! Glad that there were no serious injuries. When my '02 was less than a year old, a car load of girls (5 of them) made a left turn right in front of us. The impact spun them around about 180 degrees. They all had to be taken away by two ambulances. Your truck is much worse than mine was, although I too did have some frame damage.

Why not just find a "like the same" replacement for now, to buy you some time to build a Classic Hauler? It would sure save you a lot of stress.

John

Hi guys. I am new to the AD trucks. I owned a 41 for about 12 years. I love this site!! I learn something new every day reading what other people are doing. My Question is about the sugestion from 48bigtrucks about the front clip from a big bolt. How much bigger are the big bolts? What parts are different? what has to be done to the smaller trucks to use these parts? Thanks for any info

The Chevy 4000 and 6000 series truck fenders, hood and grill are a little different, and mostly a little bigger and wider. Wheel openings are a lot bigger. The cabs are interchangable so the only question would be what do you need to do in the raditor support area if you are swapping.

The big truck bumpers are different, so the valance is probably different too. The bumper brackets are completely different and I doubt swapping little truck to big truck bumpers is a bolt-on project.

GMC made trucks, the 280 to 350 I think, that are the same size as the Chevy 4000 and 6000. They also made larger trucks such as the 450 series that have even bigger fenders.

I'm not an expert so someone else would need to offer more detail.