The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop Sandblast it yourself and save money!!

Well my plans for the day have been squelched by equipment failure and 88° weather so I figured I’d just spend the morning complaining.
Now this story starts a couple of weeks ago with my taking my running boards of to have them blasted. I’ve already yapped about the problems I created when I painted them, and this tale isn’t related to the paint. We’re only talkin’ about 20 sq.ft. of surface and when I picked them up at the blaster to the tune of $75 I kind of choked up a little. After all, how long could it take to blast them with an Ingersoll Rand tow behind air compressor that supplies 175cfm through an 1” hose using a nozzle with a 1/2” opening. During my working career I’d cabinet blasted hundreds of items for work and hundreds more for myself during my lunch break and it shouldn’t take that long.

Well a week went by and I managed to swallowed that one, and since I don’t have the room nor the bread for a good sand blast cabinet, I was forced to take a couple of the 16.5” rims to him that I needed for my radial tire endeavor. I had to wait a couple of days to get them back because he was to busy to get to them while I waited. How bout forty bucks for the two of them he says when he finally got to them. I says, cr%$& I only paid ten bucks each at the junkyard, your killin’ me!

It was about at this point that I decided that I’d had enough. At this rate by the time I got the whole body and frame blasted I’d have three or four thousand in sandblasting. When I got home I dragged out all of the catalogs and start comparing pressure pots at Eastwood, Northern Tool, TCP, HF, etc. The one that I settled on was the 110 lb (20gal) pressure tank that looks like a big over grown Freon tank. All the vendors carry the same one and they all look like they get them from the same source. The HF unit was on sale for $129 down from $199 It comes with a water trap, pressure gauge, three globe valves a 8’6” x 1/2” ID hose and deadman’s blast gun w/four ceramic nozzles, a safety hood and nice big funnel. so how could I pass a deal like that up, and I grabbed a 9x12 HD tarp for another $12 on the way out. Man was I ready to save money now!!!!
On the way home I stopped by Mainards and picked up 100lb of Black beauty for $12, now all I had to do is spread things out and got to work.

Now here’s the “what’s wrong with this picture” part! About 10 in the morning I dumped the hundred lbs in the tank after wrapping a piece of alum. screen wire around it and I figure I’ll be done and cleaned up in time for lunch. I got about one squirt out of it before it clogged up. This was an easy fix, just some metal chips left over from the manufacturing process inside the tank clogging up the nozzle. I would encounter this a half dozen more times with chips and pieces of threads that were broken off when they over tightened the pipe threads. All, of the pipe threads by the way were tightened all the way down till they bottomed out, and some still leaked air. The “economy” hood that came with it only drapes over your front and back like chaps and the sides are open. This doesn’t leave any fresh air in but does leave plenty of dust and sand in to get in your hair, ears, eyebrows, and down your neck. A dust mask is a must and with no air circulation your glasses and lens fogs up in about 30 seconds. About every 10 minuets or so you have to stop for 15 or 20 minuets and take up the tarp, recover the sand and sift it through the screen wire filter on the funnel. I perform this exercise literally 15 or 20 times through out the day and after four hours of blasting the sand has been pounded to a fine powder. I’m only recovering about 1/3 of what I started with and it’s mostly powder it’s to late to go get some new stuff so I just keep recycling whats left.
How much have I got done so far you ask? ONE RIM and ONE half of the other. darn, another clog and it taint in the nozzle this time. This one is at the bottom and I can see water bubbling out of the joint of the tee and valve at the bottom of the tank. I know that sand and water don’t mix in a blaster especially when the sand has been pounded into powder. On my 60 gal tank I have a large water trap that filters through a desiccant bed and I’m getting only a few drops of water out of the water trap on the unit, so not much water could be getting by. By now it’s four in the afternoon, I’m dripping wet from head to toe with sweat mixed with sand and sand dust and I just tain’t about to start disassembling things to clear this clog. On top of all of this the rubber around the nozzle and the “hard alloy” and rubber stop pad have had a slot worn in them from abrasive so for the last hour or so I couldn’t stop the flow completely. How much have I got done so far you ask? ONE rim and ONE half of the other!

Now I ask you, just how much do you think I saved by blasting these wheels my self???? Right about now, that $20 a wheel looks realllll cheap to me! I shudder to think what a nightmare it’s gonna be striping the whole frame.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny,

I feel for you. I just took two front fenders, the radiator support and 3 small peices into the only place in my area that can blast sheetmetal without ruining it. Their price is $125.00 an hour. They estimate by the square foot.

My price for this work is $448.00. That sounds like a lot compared to a couple hundred bucks for equipment, but this place blasts the peice, repairs any splits in the metal and epoxy primes the peices so they don't rust afterwards.

The big question for me is whether or not to have my box cleaned up. I know it has some rust issues in a couple of spots and the front panel is pretty well beat out of shape. By the time I get it blasted and repaired, I can probably buy a complete new box. I think I have seen the complete box for around $1600.00

Denny:
I was in HF today looking at that same rig. I can tell you this, you have saved me from the same experience. That old adage," you get what you pay for", is certainly true in this case. I guess I'll look to find a military surplus or used blaster that will blast everything.

Denny, I got basically the same set up as you did except mine came from Tractor Supply. ($125) The first day was as you describe but on the second day I actually could blast a 100lb bag before stopping. I think I now understand why this cranky old fellow up the road from me will NOT blast unless the weather/humidity is just right. Call him cranky but even with all his "dryers" he still will not do on some days and he is one of the best around.

Needless to say, the next time I used the blaster it was like the first day....clog, unclog, clog,unclog. But I finally got it. The sad thing is that I used SEVEN bags of blasting sand. My chassis was B-A-D. I'm now ready to tackle the sheet metal but in my earlier "test" that will be a piece of cake compared to my chassis!!
I did find out that "all sand" is not equal. I am buying my blasting sand from the local Metromont Conrete folks that I bought concrete from when I was building houses. Seems to work better than playsand or any other sand I got from Lowe's etc. I will however not blast in the 102 degree heat anymore.
Oh, I did buy a good blasting helmet from Eastwood for $79 and threw the cheapo in the trash. With the Eastwood and a good pair of coveralls its not bad...just HOT.
Well, at least the chassis is done and now its coated with POR15 and looking good...finally.
Keep at it Denny. You can do it.

I must be very fortunate, I just had a S-10 frame sandblasted, $95.00, two running boards, dashboard, front splash shield, 2 fenders $45.00.

I also have one of the 20 gal sandblasters and I use shifted play sand in it. $2.35 for 50 lb bag. It works great for the smaller things like rims. I've used it to blast complete trucks before. Including on 6X6 5 1/2 ton truck. I have found that the play sand from Home Depot works best.

those blasters work good after you get them tuned in i had trouble getting the right size tip then i found out the longer thr air hose the better between the compressor and the unit next only run between 90 to 100 lbs of air then ajust the sand flow valve down to the point it just lets a small amount of sand threw and dont try to reuse the sand mine works good i save hours of sanding with this unit its just like anything elase you have to get it tuned in good luck you will save money

Here is the blaster I bought from Bad Boy Blasters I really like it and have had zero problems with it. It's built very well and half the price of the major catalog models. Great people to deal with also.

I will second the bad boy blaster. I can run mine off my 13 CFM compressor with no problems. I would suggest only using #4 sand though as the bigger material will clog on you.

Wow... I don't feel so bad...

A few weeks back I bought a "new" old dash for my 37 for around $30, then the other day took it to a U-Blast place and spent just $20 blasting it down to bare metal again...

Their price is only $50 an hour but I have learned how to work real quick when I am in there despite a total lack of experience (this was only my second time sandblasting anything, the tailgate Alvin sent me a few months back being the first time!) and did a pretty good job cleaning it up ...

I often wish I had a big sandblasting cabinet to do big parts like this, but after hearing all the hassle and expense mentioned here I may be better of spending the $50 and using someone else's stuff as I am!

~Trev

Just looked at the Bad Boy site and that unit is exactly the same as the HF unit right down to the Maxus gun that I’m talking about, except it’s blue. Here’s a picture of less than two hours use on this gun with Black Beauty slag blasting media. http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2807008380098611668VcjruX
I’ve been trying to find nozzles and stop blocks for a week. I found nozzles at Air Compressors Direct for $9.99 but no stop block. Found stop blocks at Northern Tool & Equipment for $7.99 but no nozzles. At two hours a set that’s pretty pricey in my book. All these pressure blasters are identical and are probably all coming from the same supplier in China. I have compared them all at Eastwood, Northern Tool & Equipment, HF, Tools USA, Cyclone, Sandblasters Inc., Air Compressors Direct, etc. If you have used this unit equipped with this Deadmans gun then you had to have the same wear pattern since it is inherent to the design. The amount of erosion may vary slightly depending on what media your using but since the blasting media is directed across the rubber and stop block every time you open or close the valve it has to wear it down, rapidly. If yours isn’t eroded, then you haven’t used it or you have the old style gun which doesn’t use the stop block to cut the flow off. I’ve ordered one of the older style guns that has the valve in the center of the handle.
I agree that the hood that comes with the units is useless as is the red $20 hood that all the vendors sell since it does not come down over your shoulders. Also any hood that does not have air circulating in it is out with me. Here again, I feel that if I want to be comfortable spending hours under the hood and do a decent job that the only way to go is with a Fresh Air Supplied hood with the upper body protection.
I have several Tyvek coveralls, good gloves and dust mask.
Boy am I ever saving money.
Trevor, hang onto to that blaster, are you’re sure he’s not a relative??
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

i just have my cone shaped ceramic nozzle wedged into a brass fitting that unscrews fast if it dose clog whitch hardly happens now unless i get the sand flowing to fast

Denny thats why i dont use a gun just put the nozzel inside of a brass fitting when i want to stop sanding i just unplug the air iv gotten real good at it and gotten fast at clean up and yes these blasters are all the same it seems ive used the same nozzel for at least 5 bags of sand and im sure it will go 5 more but my hose may need replacement soon i may just get another blaster for parts good luck

I have not had any problems with the deadman valve or ceramic nozzles as yet but they are parts that normally wear so I expect to need replacements eventually. For what I use it for it works fine.

I have a feeling that the Black Beauty/Black Blast (just coal slag) might be more abrasive than silica. It is quite aggressive but leaves a nice finish that is ready to prime. I've seen sandblasted surfaces that were so rough that they needed to be sanded before priming. I've heard from several people that the silica leaves very fine microscopic residue imbedded in the surface that can cause paint problems and that the Black Beauty doesn't.

Houston, there are two different types of Deadman guns, you apparently have the old type. The one that many of the new small inexpensive pressure blaster are shipping with is the Maxus that I show in my webshot. I’ve seen normal wear of blasting nozzles since I have used the blast cabinets for several decades. You should get many days worth of use from a nozzle before it wears out. And as I’ve already mentioned it’s the rubber and steel parts that are eroding on these guns. From what some of you other guys are saying it seems apparent that they have had the same problems with theirs also. The get-around is to either replace the gun or eliminate it altogether as 32fire2 admits to.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

I'm pretty sure the guys at Langley U-Blast aren't relatives, Denny... they're just "relatively" cheap!

When Alvin sent me the tailgate for the '37 I needed a sandblasting place to clean it up, and a guy on Craigslist wrote to say he'd used them before and that if I was willing to sandblast it myself using their equipment I could save some money...

I'd never sandblasted anything before but hey, I'm always willing to broaden my horizons and learn new things so I went down and worked on the old tailgate and within 30-40 minutes I had it done and was pretty impressed with the result... not bad for a rookie!

At the time I didn't think $50/hr was cheap but after reading this thread I'm pretty happy with the deal I got!

~Trev

Silica sand is dangerous to use. The silica can become embedded in your lungs and cause silicosis. Even if you wear a fresh air supply, the residue on your clothing is dangerous. It's best to avoid silica sand.

Denny why not try electrolysis? Ive been going that route lately on all my parts. Ive been trying random containers and setups and my best so far is to just use a garbage can with several pieces of steel bar around the outside.

darn near every part thats come off my coe has been tanked and it works great! Transmission, driveline, master cylinder, all manner of small parts, no big deal. It works wonders. If you let it run all night all the old paint comes right off with a hunk of scotchbrite or brush. A few minutes of scrubbing with a wire brush and scotchbrite, rinse, repeat, tank, etc, dry and paint.

Ill eventually build a big tank to use and do even larger stuff. Well worth the small amount of effort it takes to just sit there with your hands in your pocket and let the work take care of itself. If you want any pics let me know.

Jeff

Ya see, no one wants to admit that they are having a problem with their tools for fear that people will think that they are not handy with tools. The manager at HF said that he’s sold hundreds of these and I was the first one that complained he was having a problem, now that’s BS. That’s like saying their customers have never had to replace the grinding wheels on their tool.
Fact: Nozzles wear out whether they are ceramic, steel, carbide etc. Rubber in the abrasive stream just doesn’t work. However, they are not supposed to wear out in an hour. You should be able to get somewhere around a hundred hours out of a nozzle.

Joe, that gun/valve/nozzle on ebay is just exactly what I had in mind right after I saw what had happened to mine. I felt sure that it was happening with all of those that used a stop block. If I remember correctly years ago that ball valve setup is what almost all of the pressure blasters used. I remember seeing them on commercial blasters that they used for cleaning buildings. Since I have a lathe all have to do is find a readily available source for the ceramic nozzles and make an adaptor for it to fit a 1/2” or 3/4” ball valve. In fact I just bought a 1/2” ball valve at Blane’s F&F for less than five bucks on Monday. I was going to replace the 3/8” valve on the bottom of the tank to try to eliminate the clogging.
The other link you posted to NT&E shows a gun that eliminates half the problem, it’s $50 and the same as the one Eastwood is selling for $72. The other half of the problem is that it still has a stop block, which will erode rather quickly and needs to be replaced very often to the tune of $8 to $15 depending on your vendor.

Yes, silica can lead to silicosis; by this point in time just about anyone that has been exposed to any shop environment has heard of this, OSHA has made sure of that. The major component in most sand is silica (silicon dioxide or SiO2), so if you think you’re skirting around the silica by using Play Sand, think again. For paint and rust removal probably the safest blasting media is Aluminum Oxide but is way to expensive to use in an open system and is only practical for use in a closed cabinet. Also there are many products that are produced by DuPont and used professionialy and I have no idea where you would be able to buy small quantities; http://www.titanium.dupont.com/NASApp/TTPORTAL/Mediator?action=4160 .
So the only practical media choices that we have are sand and slag. And like the paints we use today, we just need to apply some common sense when we use them.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Jeff I figured your reply deserved a separate response. First off I was not aware that the electrolyses would take paint off also. That is my major concern with most of my truck and this latest endeavor as there is very little rust, I just want to get the paint off and start with fresh metal.
I was looking at poly livestock watering troughs when I was in F&F the other day and there are some very large tanks available for under $100. They are almost large enough to submerge a fender or door in if the process works.
One of the many things that has concerned me about using electrolyses for rust removal is something called current density. The larger the volume of electrolyte the larger the current supply needs to be. So far I have heard about a hundered, or more, different versions or opinions of how this is applied to rust removal and they all vary according to what to make the electrolyte out of and what to use for electrodes and what to use for power supplies. The whole subject at this time seems way to fragmented for me to take seriously.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

I use a dinky little 12 volt charger with a 32 gallon garbage can. Works great. I was using a rubbermaid tub, decided I wanted to go bigger and stepped up to the garbage can. I used a bunch of scrap steel for the electrodes and have them wired together around the outside of the can standing up. I hang the part in the center and plug it in. My opinion is that there is no better way to derust and clean parts. I noticed a HUGE difference with the more electrodes I added. I have them spaced 6-8" around the can and the whole thing turns into a frothy mess within minutes.

I use arm and hammer washing soda. Soaking in this seems to degrease and soften the paint so that it comes right off with a wire brush or just rinsing. Granted, the stuff Ive been using it on has been sitting for 50+ years, but I swear by it.

Id say try it out. If you spend 6$ on a box of washing soda and a few gallons of water, are you really out that much in time and money? Id save buying an expensive tub until you try it and see how you like it. Just make a plywood box out of scrap and through a few layers of plastic in it if you need a container to fit.

This is a great example

Jeff

i had a valve like that on my blaster the sand ate a hole in it thats why i just use a cone nozzel wth fitting no shut off

I have had no problems with my sand blast cabinet...
The nozzle is an open ceramic cone and there is a trigger valve for the air flow...the sand works via
the venturi principle.

My machinist buddy makes me stop blocks for my cheapo Princess Auto pressure blaster (sand)..I find they get eaten up really fast..and the ceramic nozzles chew up quick

I've got a tungsten carbide nozzle on my Alox cabinet blaster but the nozzle alone is the same price as the blasters you are talking about here.

Thanks for the links Joe, I've seen the first one but not the other two. All very imformative, I just have to get around to trying a setup and see how it works. I think one of the things that has turned me off since I first heard about the process is the mess involved. All of the articles that I have seen show and talk about this scum that you end up with. And then the parts still have to be mechanically cleaned somehow to get the black crud off.
I've been using a 10gal tank of De-Rust-It for clean bare metal parts that don't have paint on them and this leaves a black resadue also that has to be wire brushed off. It does take off light rust but not to happy with the way it treats anything heavier than surface rust.
But right now, it's paint removal that I'm into.

True Dave, the siphon guns usually have the trigger or shut off out side of the abrasive stream so the only erosion that you encounter is with the nozzles, which is normal. The life of your nozzles using sand can run from 10-30 hours for a ceramic or Alumina nozzle and up to 750-1500 hours for the expensive ($75-$100) Boron Carbide nozzles.
Boy am I saving money!!!! Right!!! But even though I have used blasters many, many times in the past, I am, learning a lot about the subject that I didn't know a couple of weeks ago.

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny the black residue is just magnetite. It can be painted over and doesnt have to be removed. But if your concerned tank the parts again in phosphoric acid and that should get rid of anything left over. Again almost every part so far has been tanked for a few hours, I give it a good scrub and let it sit overnight, softens that old paint right up and it comes right off.

Its also a good idea to either put your parts in the oven on low to make sure all the water evaporates since metal is so porous. A lot of the pieces Ive done are so big I use my large propane torch to warm them slowly, constantly moving and making the part good and hot, but not hot enough to distort anything. I far prefer 30 minutes of scrubbing the hell out out of my parts then with using the darn blaster.

The dangers of inhaling sand and lead dust arent there. I make sure I wear good rubber gloves when scrubbing the parts and I do it out in the driveway far away from our garden so any residual lead sits in the bucket of water or is washed out into the driveway where it shouldnt effect anything.

Another plus is that while sand can remove good metal, the electroysis doesnt. After tanking and scrubbing a 60 year old part you can still read the orignal part numbers off it most of the time.

Joe thanks for the links apparently I lost some of those...

Good luck, Jeff

If I may I would like to chime in. I too was skeptical about the electroysis. I had a couple of rear bumper brackets that were badly rusted. I cut up a 30 gallon plastic drum, and used SS hardware cloth as the positive electrode. I put them in the bath after work and let them work all the next day. When I got home the rust was gone. A good brushing under running water, then a good drying and they were ready to paint. It did make the water a nasty looking mess. After I was finished I dumped the whole thing on the grass by my shed and turned the sprinklers on. That was in late August and I have seen no adverse affects. I will have to try it for paint removal.

Yeah, I'll have to give it a try Jeff. I'm not nuts about sandblasting myself, I wire brush anything that is small enough for me to hold it up to the bench/pedestal grinder.

Jimmie D, ya gotta read some of these articles and heed the cautions about using SS electrodes. They’re a no, no! That was the one thing that I did remember from some of the older articles that I’d seen.

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny, thanks for the heads up on the stainless steel. The reason I used it to begin with, is that the tech article on this web site advocates the use of stainless, with no mention of dangerous chromates. The next time I will just weld up a couple of regular iron bars to use.

TooMany2count, Thank you for the link. I had gone back and read several articles on chromates leaching into the solution. I studied chemistry years ago and am well aware of the danger of exposure to even small amounts of common chemicals. I have already disposed of the SS hardware cloth, and this morning I welded a grid of rebar to fit the tank. I won't be using stainless steel again.

Well another chapter in the on going pressure blaster saga. I pitched the gun that came with the unit and rigged one up using a 1/2” ball valve, it looked like a good idea and I would swear that I’d seen this setup on commercial blasters. This one only took about 15 minuets to destroy so it’s back to the drawing board. http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2863224510098611668MKhorw

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

i woul not use a valve at all just a fitting that will hold the ceramic nozzel works good for me

Well that would work 32, but that would be like pulling the plug out of the bucket, throwing it away then waiting for all the the sand to run out. I'd like to have some control over the process, guess you could say that I'm a "control freak". Can't see broadcasting 100 lbs of blasting media into the driveway and only applying 10% of it to the task at hand.
The air needs to be shut off before it picks up the sand and at the same time you need to gate the sand from gravity/pressure feeding into the hose. So you need some sort of a double valve that you could control from the business end of the hose. Short of rigging a double solenoid with a trigger on the nozzle it’s got me stumped for now.
It’s funny how when you get into something like this the basic flaws in the equipment become obvious almost immediately yet they keep on producing and selling the same thing for years. It reminds me of the majority of reproduction parts that we get from the vendors, you have to rework most of it to make it fit or end up throwing it out and making your own.

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Hey Denny and all the rest of you guys, I am cancelling my subscription to Consumer Reports. Keep the info coming. Weeds

Denny,
I've found that the good ol USA made ball valves last a lot longer than those Chinese ones. They're getting hard to find, I think I got my last one at Menards a couple of years ago.

Bob

I Bob, just got back from Morris, great swap, I missed it the last couple of years. I was walking past a vendors table and spotted two brand new Whitey 1/2" SS, compression ball valves with $3 on each. These are real heavy duty beefy ball valves and when I worked at the accelerator we used a lot of this type. I knew that they were worth somewhere between two to four hundered dollars so I grabbed them.I offered the guy two bucks for the two of them and he took it. http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2605157320098611668ccKcpM
I'm working on a way to plumb an air valve so I can shut it off before it gets the media mixed in with it.
I also found a W-1 for $2 at the swap, couldn't pass that one up.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

I'll second that. I added this tip to my harbor freight pressure blaster and it works like a champ now. I never try to reuse my sand. I have also found play sand to be way too fine except for very light surface rust. Instead, I use #4 blasting sand. It's more expensive but also more effective. I blast at 75 psi and have a differential pressure system rigged so as to prevent clogging (one pressure regulator for the tank pressure and one for the gun. This allows a small amount of back pressure to prevent clogging when the unit is shut off.

I spent more money six years ago on the TIP pressure pot blaster. I use it all the time with the same valves and hoses it came with. I guess its true, you get what you pay for!

I found on mine, you have to open and close the handle very fast or you will erode the stopper in a hurry. Mine has a gun type end, so its easy to snap open and shut.

Joe

Well guys, I really don’t want to stand here and start hookin’ with ya but if you looked at the link that I posted you can plainly see that a brass ball valve will only last about 15min before the media will eat through the side. It’s pretty simple, when you shut the ball it diverts the abrasive toward the side of the brass, brass is quite soft and in a few minuets you have a hole through the side, I have the proof.
The weak spot in the deadman gun from Northern Tool is the rubber stopper. It’s in the path of the abrasive stream and it will need to be replaced after an hour because it will erode away and you will not be able to shut it off.
Once again, I’m rigging a ball valve next to the nozzle with two lines taped to the feed hose. I’m going to break the air line before it picks up the media. That way I will be able to control the feed pressure with a valve that is not in the blast stream.
I’m done with the subject for now! I’m satisfied with my findings and moving on to other things.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL.