The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts Hoist Pump Help Needed

With the brakes, axle, and engine finally working and running right on my '57 6400, the last major issue that I need to deal with before I can put her back to work is the hoist. The front seal on the pump was leaking oil out about as fast as I could put it back in. I pulled the pump, disassembled it, and cleaned it up, but I can't find any identifying markings on it besides casting numbers on the iron pieces. I need some help figuring out what it is and where I can find a gasket and seal kit. The hoist is a single cylinder unit with an integral control valve and PTO-driven gear pump. The pump hangs off the bottom of the front of the cylinder. The entire unit is covered with about a half inch of grease, dirt, and gunk. If there's a tag or some such identification on it, I sort of need an idea where it would be or else I'd spend the entire weekend under it with a putty knife. Any ideas where to start?

Does it look like this?

I found all my seals at a local hydraulic shop, but I tore mine down all the way for a rebuild.

Jeff

Jeff,

It sorta looks like that. It's the same rough design, but different enough that it's probably a different manufacturer. Mine has the valve assembly basically one the end of the cylinder. There is an iron elbow assembly bolted to the side that the pump mounts to with 6 bolts. It actually hangs below the cylinder. My pump has a more "conventional" gear pump appearance, as well. The entire assembly is painted gray. I did some scraping on it tonight and came up with nothing. I'm not sure what I'm looking for. I don't know if the manufacturer ID would be on the cylinder/valve assembly, the scissor assembly, the frame, or ????? I guess I could take some pictures if it would help. I don't really have a hydraulic shop around here to speak of to check with. I'm pretty sure that I'll have to have a pump specific kit to put it back together with. There aren't any o-rings in it. It just has a series of packing rings on the shaft and some thin paper or plastic gaskets between the case parts and pressure plates. At this point, I'll take any help or suggestions I can get!

This is a Galion hoist. It had no marks or numbers on it so to speak except for on the triangular arms which lift the bed. Those both said Galion on them. Internally the piston had 6 large steel rings, but the o-rings were in the shafts which turn the lever for the pump flow, either recirculating or turned to force the piston out.

This came off a 1961 Chevrolet 1 ton and I really doubt anything newer then about 1980ish would even have a kit available. I think the only way to really tell what you need is to tear into it.

Good luck, thats about the extent of my knowledge!

53moneypit (Dave) worked on hoist equipment for years and Im surprised he hasnt piped up yet.

Jeff

1herrick1 - Hello.
Definately the photos would help a lot but one quick question: does it have one shaft or two for attaching the PTO driveshaft?

"I don't really have a hydraulic shop around here to speak of to check with." WRONG. There is one of the largest in that part of the country right in your hometown of Otterbein - Rowe Truck Equipment. They will have a large selection of parts and possibly still have an old timer around who can identify your Heil, Converto, Daybrook, Perfection, Marion, Hercules or Garwood hoist.

Dave,

Thanks for the reply. The pump only has the one shaft for PTO hookup. It's quit raining for the time being, so I'll see about getting some pictures of the hoist and pump this afternoon.

And yes, Rowe Trucking was in fact the first place I called, but the parts counter guy had about zero interest in trying to help me identify what kind of hoist this is. The bed has a Rowe emblem on it, so I know that they at least sold the bed. It looks to be newer. The hoist may have been on the truck since it was new. Rowe has been a great resource as I've worked on this truck, but only if you pretty much know exactly what you need when you walk in. If it requires any effort on their part, you might as well forget it. Things have changed since 'ole Claude Rowe died.

I knew Claude and his son John used to be a customer of mine. Calling on the phone for something like you need is just asking to be put on hold or hung up on. Face to face is a lot harder to deal with for the counter punks. There will some guys around Otterbein that worked at Rowe who will know what you have.

Sounds like a Garwood or Converto with one shaft but w/o a photo I can't say. The Coverto used a cast iron manifold that bolted to one end of the pump and a flat plate on the opposite end. If the PTO shaft turned the direction opposite what you needed you had to remove the end plate and put the manifold on the other end and rotate the pump the opposite direction and re-install. Dual shaft pumps eliminated this requirement.

The biggest problem you have is that ALL the names I mentioned in the other post are gone the way of the dodo bird.

This pump is bi-directional. It sounds similar to the design you mentioned, but both end plates are iron. I know, I know. A picture is worth 1000 words. I'm heading towards the barn here after bit and I'll get some. The good news is that my 'ole man stopped by today and said that he got a tractor jack under the bed and raised it up. He did a little scrapping and found a logo and some numbers. Maybe they'll help. And I'm not the least bit surprised that the OE manufacturer is likely out of business. I'm just hoping that maybe one of the aftermarket parts suppliers has some sort of listing for it.

OK, here's the animal.

Left Side

Right Side

A Peek Up From The Bottom

Notice the iron elbow where the pump mounts.

The Hinge and Scissor Assembly

Back and Bottom of the Pump

Top and Front of the Pump

The Numbers and the Insignia on the Yoke

The numbers are H022072 and the insignia is a "W". The "W" reminds me quite a lot of the Westinghouse symbol. Does this thing ring any bells?

I can't help you with the brand of your hoist. I'll let Dave do that.

I just wanted to comment that I'm glad to see that you used plenty of wood blocking under that bed. The last thing we want to see is one of our fellow Bolters getting killed under a falling truck box!!

It looks like an old Marion to me but I won't say absolutely. There are things about it that look like a very old Anthony too.
You said it had twin shafts but obviously it has but one.

No matter however. Getting a shaft seal should not be a problem. If I were you I would not take the covers off the pump itself until you try it out first. If you do you will no doubt have to make the cover gaskets which will be very, very thin and must be replaced in the same thickness as removed to prevent gauling of the gears.

The numbers and the markings are likely casting numbers and don't help much w/o some documentation. I'm thinking Anthony but that is because of that half round lower casting at the base of the cylinder. I'll send them to an old pal of mine who may have some ideas too.

send spanky a pm bet he would know.

I have researched all of my old info and what I've discovered is that your hoist is a GarWood brand. It was made by the GarWood Mfg Co of Wayne MI. Long gone. This is the same Gar Wood of speed boat racing fame from the 20-30's and he was quite an industrialist, manufacturing, speedboats, truck bodies, hoists, winches, and one of the very first with a hydraulic garbage packer body. Tens of thousands of WWII trucks, ships, barges, etc were equipped with GarWood winches. These are often seen today on old Chevy, GMC and White trucks of that era. A real piece of Americana under your old dump bed. Clean it up, paint it up and show it off.

Thanks for checking it out for me, Dave. I appreciate it. At least now I know what I'm working on. I've been working some more on cleaning it up as time allows. The most important thing for me at this point is geting the pump back together and moving oil. I'm going to run it in to Rowe's and a couple other places on Monday and see what I can come up with for gaskets and packing. I'll let you know what I come up with.

Let me know how you make out. Coincidentally Dave just I.D.'d mine as a Garwood also..Mines a big time leaker..although works well

Keith

If you can't find a seal kit for it there may be an industrial seal outlet in your area such as Seal Source as long as the gears haven't eaten in to the housing you should be able to rebuild it better than new. First inspect the housing look real close at the suction side as the bearings or bushings in the end caps wear the gear set will be pushed to the low pressure side of the housing causing wear. The wear on the end caps can usually be fixed buy lapping them a good hydraulics shop can do this for you it is a bit overkill but you may also ask them to Parkerize them after lapping. Then replace the bearings in the end caps. If the gear set is keyed to the shaft you can have them lap the ends of each gear also but only if you can remove them from the shaft. If you lap the gear set be sure that they are equal size within .001 of an inch and they may need to lap an end off the housing the same that was taken from the gears so upon assembly you have .003 to .005 clearance between the end caps and the gears be sure that the gear set rotates freely after you reassemble it
There are a lot of hydraulic shops out there that wish to just sell new parts but there are also ones that know how to make anything come back to life. If it is unfixable bring the manifold that it bolts to and they should be able to build an adaptor to except another pump.

Welp, it's taken me 8 months, but I finally got around to getting my pump put back together. I found the packing I needed in a nylon ring version instead of the old rubber rings at McMaster Carr. They also supplied new bearings and .003" and .005" thick sheets of plastic to duplicate the original internal gaskets.

Now I have a problem. It doesn't work. I put everything back together exactly the way it came apart and filled it full of oil, but the oil isn't getting to the pump. The pump is the lowest point of the entire hoist assembly. Several of the pump housing bolts are drilled all the way through into the guts of the pump. If I pull one of them out, I should have a gusher but they are dry. It's obviously got air trapped in it somewhere. I've tried running it and shifting the hoist valve, but nothing makes a difference. Is there possibly a bleeder plug or something that I'm not finding? Do I need to prime it somehow?
I'm clueless and pretty discouraged. I'm an electrician, not a hydraulic tech. Help!

My guess is that you have mis-assembled the ball check valve. Also are you certain that you didn't get the mousing backwards which would have the effect of wrong rotation? These are the things I would check if I were working on it. After 8 months I would be lucky to remember anything about it.

Thanks for the reply, Dave. I got her going today. There was a pipe plug on the top side of the valve/manifold assembly that was hidden in a pocket of grease. I pulled it out, let all the air escape, and filled the hole full of oil. That passage must have gone directly to the pump because it went up right away on the next try. I've got to work it some more to get the rest of the air out of it, but so far so good. No leaks and it goes up quickly and smoothly. I've owned this bucket 'o bolts for about 7 years and this is the first time that it's ran good, stopped good, and the hoist has worked good - all at the same time! Maybe I can finally put her to work. Thanks for all the help!!

Oh, and 8 months is a QUICK project for me! I had the brakes torn apart for a year and a half. Somehow I always seem to remember how things came apart.