The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop My S-10 frame swap saga

Howdy all!

I've mentioned in various posts that I am attempting the famous S-10 frame under an AD body swap. Since then, I have been deluged with inquiries (okay, two people) asking about my experience.

With the moderators' indulgence, I am beginning this thread, and plan to add to it as time passes, hopefully updating with lots of progress.


It all began innocently enough, with my teenage son wanting a hot rod project. That developed into this pretty decent 1974 Nova. .

Two years later, my daughter hits driving age, and she wants an "old pickup". After a brief search we bring home this 1953 Advanced Design project.

So at this point, I'm finding out how woefully ignorant I am. I don't know about the torque tube, I don't know about IFS options, I don't know about engine swaps....

So I spend hours and hours online, many of them here on http://www.stovebolt.com/ . Through my research, I begin to settle on the idea of the S-10 frame swap.

My reasoning includes several considerations. My project is not rare, and is awfully far downhill for a restoration. I don't plan to chop or otherwise mess with the appearance, but I certainly want my daughter to have modern handling and brakes, and a relatively modern engine.

To accomplish this, it appears I need to consider a rear axle and IFS swap. But if I'm going that far, why not go the S-10 route?

As an added benefit, I will eventually have an intact 1953 frame, engine, trans and rear end available for another 'Bolter to use in their project (start getting your bids in now!)

On a side note, about this time I saw a 1947 Studebaker pickup grafted onto an S-10 frame by a skilled hot rodder from Albuquerque. I don't have a photo of that pickup, but he also built this 1938 Buick "Taxi".

So the search begins for yet another vehicle to clutter the yard. It ends in my own hometown with this 1985 GMC S-15 donor vehicle. Poor thing, it doesn't know what's in store for it.

It is a conventional cab, long bed, 2 wheel drive. As an added benefit, the previous owner bought it to use as a service truck. So it has extra heavy rear springs, listed as a "1625 pound payload option".

As most of you probably know, the regular cab, long bed S-10s are within an inch of being the same wheelbase as the AD pickups, with similar front track widths.

Now the fun part starts, ripping into the donor vehicle. I was actually pretty careful with this, as I have no idea what will go to the junkyard, and what will become part of the new S-10/AD hybrid. Here we see me lifting the cab from the frame, using an OSHA approved lift system.

Okay, it wasn't the safest way, but I didn't get near it or under it. I promise I'll be more careful with the AD cab.

This past Saturday, I got the final major piece removed, as the 2.8 V-6 and transmission depart.

But I haven't been completely idle waiting for the tractor...I've been searching for a rear axle to swap underneath.

If you aren't as deep into your research as I am, I have found, and my measurements confirm, that the S-10 two-wheel drive rear axle is too narrow to fit underneath the AD bed. But the 4WD rear axle is identical in every way to the 2WD...except it is about 4" wider.

So I begin my search for a rear axle from a 4WD S-10 or S-10 Blazer. But I don't want just any axle...I want one from a 1998 or newer S-10 Blazer...the year they switched to rear disk brakes.

This was a major OUCH for the project. I'm thinking this is a $100 item. The wrecking yards are thinking it is a $1000 item. The best price I find is $450 in Lawton, Oklahoma, and $550 in nearby Amarillo. I decide I can't drive to Lawton for $100, so I go with local.

For my $550 plus tax, I get this lovely hunk o\'junk. Complete rear end, sway bar, disk brake calipers and rotors.

But what's this? The 2000 S-10 Blazer rear has these odd little round indentations above the leaf spring, while my original 1985 S-10 rear end has none!

A mystery....but for my next post. It is time to sign off for the evening.

If you have compared the width with an older Blazer, let's say 1985 model, whatcha got will work, Canyon. Those extra pieces are jounce bumper plates. For what you are doing, it's just as easy to cut them off.

One more thing. If you weren't aware, there are little brake shoes in behind those rotors for the park brakes. Check the condition of those. Although they don't get used very often, they do tend to get worn out. Just something to keep an eye out for.

on that rear those might be for air shocks

Sometimes the lining will come off the backing on the parking brake, something to check for. Also check the axle seals, they have a tendacy to leak on these axles. The cups are for the jouce bumpers on the Blazer, just as a.d.-hawk stated.

That was a nice looking GMC donor vehicle. I would have had a hard time tearing that one apart.

Good luck with your project

John

I noticed the same thing, John. But, look at it this way, he is recycling!

Canyon, thanks for starting this thread. I will be constantly waiting for updates.

I also got a very straight s-10 as a donor for $100 with title. I stripped all of the useable body parts and had them sold within a week.

Canyon, this may help some, sorry I'm such a computer neanderthral that I don't know how to put text with pictures. Several others said they made a printout of the following text and compared to pictures--sort of like a program at an opera.
(S10-025)- solved unbalance shown here by having chain to top hinge pocket bolts and hanging 100# weight to radiator core support, balanced perfectly.
(S10-028)- body mounts on frame with temporary sheetmetal screw.
(S10-031)- bed to frame brackets in place
(S10-034)- test fit onto S-10 frame
(S10-038)- front wheels on with 2" spacers, same track width as stock AD track width.
(S10-044)-stock column moved to top of hole in cab
(S10-047)- shifter rod modified to clear dash
(S10-049)- fit S10 park brake cables to AD parking brake rod.
(S10-051)- radiator moved up to clear S10 steering gear box.
(S10-053)- used Ford accelerater cable because it uses small round hole in firewall and has return spring integral to the cable which eliminates brackets and springs on the intake.
(cecil's 40 PU-007)-access hole to S10 motor mount stand bolts. Enlarged fuel line hole on left and copied on right.
(Model A-017)-motor mount base is a 1/2" plate welded to crossmember with three drilled and tapped 3/8" holes.
(S10-055)-fabricated starting safety switch so it will only start in park.
(S10-058)-modified front bumper arms to S10 frame.
(S10-059)- by using 6" piece of 2 1/2" square tubing plus a 3/8" shim the rear bumper arms fit the S10 frame.
This is inconvenient by not being with the pictures but hope it helps.
http://www.msnusers.com/Evanscars

Canyon,

When you get this all done, let's make it into a tech tip so it'll stay put someplace ... with all the input and pictures.

Peggy

Thanks for the positive words, folks, and sorry I've been so long posting an update. Thanks for the input, as well, and those are some valuble photos, coilover.

As others have noted, I did figure out the little round indentations. Don't know if "jounce bumpers" are the correct name, but on the old S10, they are just little rubber triangles, hence the flat strike plate on the axle. On the newer S10 Blazers, they are little cylinders that look like a doggy chew toy.

How do I know this? I went driving around town, looking for an unsuspecting S10 Blazer. Finally finding one in the parking lot of our little University, I crawled under, and there they were. Okay, that explains the round pads. I could cut them off, but they really don't hurt anything, and I'd rather not cut anything up that might come in handy later.

But I found something else that mystified me. My sway bar was mounted facing forward....on all the Blazers I found, the sway bars were mounted facing backwards. I thought the wrecking yard had done something wrong, until I found that the difference was in the number of doors.

I searched tons of pages online before I stumbled across a parts catalog that showed the difference. A four door S10 Blazer has a sway bar facing the rear, in two door versions, it faces forward. And the connectors between the frame and the sway bar are completely different between the two.

So there's your best helpful hint from tonight's post: If you want to use the sway bar that comes with your Blazer rear end, get one from the 4-Door. The 2-door version goes forward, and will not work because of interference from the S10 gas tank. (more on that later).

Swapping the leaf springs on the rear axle was a piece o'cake. Everything from the '85 springs mated up to the '00 rear axle, and it rolled right into place. Here\'s a picture of the new axle in its new home. Notice in the shadow at the top of the picture, the old triangular jounce bumper. If I ever bounce that hard, it will impact right behind the round pads for the '00 Blazer, and strike that flat area. You can also see in the photo the sway bar...with no frame mount.

Next: Hooking up the sway bar.

First, a digression in regard to the fuel tank. The S10 has an inside the frame, under the bed gas tank on the left side. Like This. This is fine, but I had a few problems with it. One, it forces the exhaust to the right, and I want one pipe coming out each side, in front of the rear wheel. Two, I would have to bring the filler neck through the side of the bed or the bed floor.

As for the former, body work is not my strength. For the latter, I am a farmer. I never have an empty bed. I can't imagine trying to dig through junk every time you need to fill up.

And three, I like the idea of a rear tank to move weight to the rear and center it.

So I decided to mount a tank at the rear, behind the rear axle. I headed to Cherry Avenue Auto Parts , a place worth it's own discussion thread. (Switch the linked map to the "Aerial View".) I took my tape measure and looked under the back end of every old car and truck on the place before I finally thought to look at the S10 Blazers. DUH! There it is, 13 or 20 gallons (usually 20), perfectly shaped to fit between the rear frame rails. Couple hours of labor and $30 later, I had the tank, filler neck, mounting straps, rock guard and all.

You can see it will work, though I may have to modify the exsisting crossmember, and I'll have to add a rear mounting brace. I'll make the rear brace somewhat of an anti-collision guard, as well. The Blazer filled through a door in the left fender, so you could make your filler port there as well, or come up through the bed.

My plans are to put a 90 degree hose on, and put my filler port at the rear, between the bottom of the bed and the bumper. A hinged license plate will hide it.

Of course, I now have no under-the-bed mount for my spare tire, but that's a problem for another day.

Back to the sway bar. It took me two trips back to the wrecking yard to get the right sway bar attachments. This was before I figured out the whole 2-door/4-door problem.

When I did, I still had to fabricate mounts. I had a scrap of heavy 3.5" square tubing and a chop saw. So I cut a 2" section of tubing, then cut it at two corners to give me two 3.5" x 3.5" x 2" wide "Ls". After drilling and bolting to the sway bar attachment, it looked like this.

And I plan to weld them to the frame like this. Except I plan to remove the vice grips after welding.

Final post for tonight...I thought I had exactly the rear axle I wanted. A wide, 4WD unit, disk brakes, and a 3.42 ratio.

Oops. When I got it in and mounted, I checked the ratio. 3.73 Darn, lower than I wanted. There were two rear ends on the rack, and I must have grabbed the wrong one. But I plan to go with an overdrive trans, and tall tires on 16" wheels. So I think I'll still be happy.

Tech tip: Always double check your purchase before you leave the wrecking yard.

So I'm cleaning up after I finished the rear axle installation, and decide I'll put the clamps that hold the driveshaft U-joint onto the new axle for safekeeping.

Hmmm, there seems to be a problem. Sure enough, the yokes are different, especially since the old one is the 7.5" ring gear, and the new one is the 7.625" unit. I expect to have to modify my driveshaft with the new engine/transmission combo anyway, so I'll change to the new u-joint at that point.

One more bump in the road for you to be aware of.

Canyon: Sounds like your rolling right along on your conversion. One note on your filler behind the license plate. On my father in law's 54 pickup, the tanks in that position behind the back axle and fills via a cap in the center of the (Massive) back bumper. We have to remember when we pull into a station, to try to get a pump facing downhill to be able to get it full. Also due to the sharp bends in the filler tube, most stations pumps kick off even at the slowest setting on the handle, so you have to stand there and hold the handle about half way or a little under the first click on the handle to get it to run. And we don't even try to get more than a 3/4 tank when we've got the flatbed hooked up and our latest junkyard find in tow.
Just something for you to chew on.

Mongo

Thanks Mongo. I've been looking and looking at it. I have even considered biting the bullet and coming out through the side.

I've been busy with work lately, and haven't done a lot on the conversion or the "saga". I'll try to update soon.

first of all,thank all you guys for the posts on this s10 swap.never done this before i take what you guys say as the gospel.I noticed the front of the frame was cut off at the power steering pump,can someone give me an exact measurement for this,also Iwill be using a 400 chevy with air gap intake and a 800 cfm edelbrock carb, will there be any clearance problems,also using a msd pro billet distributor.any advice given,will be appreciated. thanks

If you don't want a filler door in the fender, could you come out behind the fender and just use a rubber grommet where the neck comes through the bed?

I have read in other posts that the motor sets high in engine compartment,will there be any clearance problems using the above mentioned setup,hood clearance carb setup,and also pro billet distributor fire wall issues. thanks for any advice. and as my left hand thobs,ball joints are a pain in the a@#&^,not to mention the coil springs.

Really great thread.
I have a 53 and am trying to decide which way I'm going to go. I'm trying to figure what would be the cheapest/easiest route knowing that I want a 350sb in there someday...IFS/rearend ect OR frame swap???
I just can't decide which would be best, but I'm going to keep an eye on you guys
Thanks again. Great info.

I dont think there's an easy route, I was going to do a s-10 swap but I didnt like how low it dropped the truck I think it was about 5". I went with IFS & trans am rear end swap It only lowers the truck about 2"
Good Luck
Todd

I haven't read every word of this thread so I may have missed what you plan on using for an engine/tranny combo but I'd recommend the Chevy 4.3 liter V6 and the 5 speed if your daughter can drive one, a 700R4 if an auto is in order. They're cheap, not huge, readily available, make really good power, reliable, and run forever. Heck, they were designed around the small block V8, a design that had been nearly perfected over 50 years. Chevy 350 V8 internals will interchange with the 4.3 V6 (pistons, lifters, rockers, pushrods, etc etc). Since this is going to be your daughters first vehicle she probably doesn't need a big V8. The V6 will move the truck just fine but won't have enough power to get her in trouble, plus the gas mileage will be substantially better.
Just my .02. Project looks good so far!

Nice work so far Canyon!! All the imfo so far is muchly appreciated. I have a 54 1st series that i have decided to throw a 82 s-10 frame under. It was a free frame in the end after selling off the un needed body. My next step is to purchase the

I will definatly be monitoring this thread

Great progress, great thread!
I vote for the 4.3 V6 also. It is a somewhat torquey engine for the displacement, and there are a ton of parts out there for them. They also get good milage if the RPM is kept down. V8 SBC con-rods don't interchange with the 4.3 V6. The big end is narrower on the V6 rod, due to the split journal even-fire crank.
mv

Yep, forgot about that!

Wow, Canyon, you sure have clean sheetmetal in TX. The S10 in my sig-line page was a 1991 and had 60K miles on it. Thanks to heavy road salt use near Lake Erie, the bed lifted off without removing a single bolt. Lots of rust here.
mv

Sorry it's been so long since an update. I've run into some real time/money/weather roadblocks.

I appreciate all the input. I still don't have an engine/trans setup ready to go. I don't really worry too much about my daughter and the bigger engine. She's been driving since she was 8 or 9, including tractors. Her daily driver is a Caprice with the 260hp LT1, and in good weather she drives her brother's 1974 Nova 350/4 speed manual. (He's at college driving a 98 Grand Prix GTP).
This Nova

I don't think I'm going to get it done where she can drive it much. She has received an appointment to the Air Force Academy, and reports June 28th. They can't have a car until they are juniors.

(Excuse the daddy bragging.)

Congrats on your daughter being appointed to the Air Force Academy. The weather around here has also slowed my progress. I grabbed some body parts from my truck last weekend when I went to the farm, and there were still 4' snow drifts covering the back yard of the farm house. This is from the snow that fell on New Years weekend.

Hang in there and hollar if you need any help. My hands miss being greasy.

Well nevermind the V6...your daughter seems to be able to handle a lot more.
An old 348 W-Block would be really cool.. You can put a 427 crank in it very easily and they're a LOT cheaper than a 409. Something to think about...

Could you use spacers on all four wheels? Where is the best places to purchase spacers?

If we do a swap to an S-10 and go to the 4x4 for the wider rear end what are the options for the front? I don't see too many people posting about that.

cool trend im working on forgive me but a 1942 truck im matting to a 89 ex cab s-15 frame the 42 was a big bolt frame was bent and all f up so to save the old girl i decied to build a hotrod s-15 frame 350 old carb type with a 93 chevy 1500 5 speed firebird rear end disk and home built bed of steel

i am using a 1984 s -10 frame,i would like to mount the cab four inches off the frame.considering the kick up of the frame in the rear,would this create a lot of fab work when mounting the bed.if so what would you guys recomend?

Claude,
First, welcome
Check out www.ad-engineering.com they make a kit for just for what your doing. Kind of pricy but well worth it considering the time involved and headaches you"ll get.

Wilbur

claude, I used 4" steal tube to raise my 51 up, theres some pictures onthe bottum of my post,as soon as I can I'll get some more pics. of the bed. I had to raise my floor in the bed up about 3" to clear the kick up of the frame in the rear, other than that things went together fairly easy, I went with 2" spacers on the front wheels and I'm putting a 4x4 s-10 rear end in to widen the back I hope this helps

thank you 51dan79 ,also wilbur,if my measurements are correct i would have to go about 7 inches off the frame to use the standard depth bed,which i would like to do.could i raise the bed up a couple of inches off the frame and get more depth in the bed? or would this create problems mounting the rear fenders and the running boards?.the ad engineering kit is just to pricey,I am going for a lower stance than there kit offers,without buying dropped spindles,and the like,I do agree with ad -engineering that hot rodding has got to exspensive. thanks for all the help

i am doing the A D S-10 swap using the 4.3 engine
that came with my 1997 donor. What steering column have you had luck using, I bot the flaming
river DD knuckles and shafts.

I used a column out of a 80 el camino, I didn't give it much thought when I tore the s-10 apart to maybe keep the stearing column, I did use the power brakes and pedal ***.and with a little fab work it should work ouy just fine. I shortened the column not the shaft on the elky column and made a new mounting plate, I hope this helps you.

I'm making my own 'AD' style kit. I bought 8' of 4" square tubing for $54. I ended up with the body 4" off the frame with original S10 body rubbers in the front of the cab and the original shackle mounts in the rear. I lowered the bed 2" using angle iron mounted through the next 'up' fender mounting bolts to mock it up. Looks fine on an S10 frame and the bottom edge of the fenders sit 9" off the ground with no motor/trans YET. Going with a 327/S10 5 speed combo. Trying to fix up the floor and the swing pedal assy right now.

Of that 8' of square tubing, I've used 18" and went ahead and duplicated my mounts for a second truck.

51dan79, are you reinforcing your 4"? Looks like you could have side load issues so you might want to box the ends. Just a suggestion.