The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts 1955 6400 Grain Truck Wheel Identification

I have reading the posts on here regarding finding wheels/tires to replace the originals.

I am pretty certain that the rear duallies are the RH5 (Widow maker) due to the center rise and description on the Tech Tips page. I have measured them and the 10-bolt circle is 7.25" diameter and 5.25" inner circle. How do I tell if these are Bud wheels? I am assuming they are hub piloted, I will pull one of the nuts off in the morning to see if it is straight or beveled.

My front wheel is what confuses me the most. It is only a 5 bolt patern but there are 10 holes total with 5 of the holes blank? Is this the clamp plate I was reading about on the tech tips page? The rim is 22.5" diameter, bolt patern measures 7.25" diameter, and the center circle measures 4.5" (where do i make this measurement for this wheel)? Does anyone have photos of a front wheel like this taken off the hub? Looking at all the rims and literature I am still uncertain as to what type of rim I have for the front.

Here are some pictures of my rear dually and front wheels. Any help in identifying or answering these questions would be greatly appreciated. I have started looking for a set of rims from a 1956-1959 chevy 1.5 ton for tubeless replacements so I can put radials on it.

http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/asburynick/library/1955%20Chevy%206400%20wheels?sort=3&page=1

Pretty standard wheel for the truck back in the day.
They are 10 hole Budd wheels.
The front used only 5 lugs.
No plate the hubs are drilled for five studs.
GM used that five front system well into the 90's on medium duty trucks.
Tom

It does appear you have the RH5 wheels. Up thru the advance design trucks they used a cover plate over the wheel studs between wheels and lug nuts. I don't know if they continued with the task force trucks. If someone had replaced the wheel studs with shorter studs they may have tossed them or just tossed them as they thought they were unneeded.
Great looking truck you have.

All of the wheels are drilled with the ten lug stud hole even tho the fronts only use 5. That way you can rotate your tires and only need to carry one spare,
Scott

Hy Guys, the wheels in 55graintrucks pictures are the standard Kelsey ten hole hub piloted wheels, definitely not Budd wheels which are stud piloted. It was mentioned that he had two different center hole dimensions, if that is true then some of his wheels are incorrect for his truck. A hub piloted wheel should fit snugly around the hub definitely not a lot of visible clearance, hope that helps.

The Kelsey wheel....that is the first time I have heard of that wheel. Could you explain/describe that wheel for me. On the stovebolt tech tip page it states that Budd wheels can be hub or stud piloted also.

I measured the front wheel inner circle and the 4.5" measurement comes from first ring just outside of the small bolt/screw pattern in the middle of the wheel. The next circle just out from that (what to me looks like the hub) is 5.25" in diameter. So I believe I have the same wheels all around. I even looked inside the front wheel well and it looks just like the rear...center raised section. Therefore, I also believe I have widow makers on the front.

Was it common for the front wheels/axle hub to only have 5 bolts?

I am only toying with the idea of having Wheels Now make a set of rims if I cannot find some to put on here that are not widow makers, just as a fall back. When measuring the "offset" of the wheel everything I read about is the distance from the center of the wheel to the backside mounting surface, all pictures i've seen show this surface being behind/inside of the wheel width. These are dually wheels and it looks like the are slightly in front of the front wheel bead/rim.

I assume they are 8.25" wide due to the new front tires that were put on by the previous owner are marked 8.25-20. Can anyone confirm that?

This brings up another question - if the rim diameter (outside edges of the rim bead) is 22.5 why is the tire 8.25-20?

They look like the common Motor Wheels which were used for quite a few years. They are the Firestone RH5°. You will probably have a difficult time trying to find anyone to change them if you have a flat. I would start looking around for the Goodyear type wheels. 55 and newer will fit and they are a lot easier to find than the earlier 4.75 bore. 22.5 tubeless were actually standard for the late 50's, but very few of them were ordered. There are some around, but they are hard to find. They haven't been produced for some time.

Hy Guys, those are definitely Kelsey hub pilot RH5 wheels, Motor Wheels while also hub piloted have a different center hole size and they use a different type of retaining nut which incorporates a thick washer as part of the nut, they also mount to larger diameter studs. I have never seen a Motor Wheel with the ten hole on 7.25" bolt circle pattern. There are multi-piece wheels available to replace your RH5 wheels, two and three piece wheels were common, I prefer the three piece style myself. I will try and list all the different types of truck wheel we might encounter
Tube types
Kelsey, hub piloted, the wheel we find on our Chevrolets with the ten bolts on a 7.25" bolt circle, Kelsey was a wheel manufacturer and made many styles of wheels. Wheels can be found in two piece, three piece and RH5 styles. I imagine Kelsey made the tubeless wheels as well
Motor Wheels, hub piloted, uses retaining nuts with a heavy washers, available in multi-piece design,(I've never seen a tubeless one or an RH5 version), used on many makes of trucks, GMC and Reo to name two
Budd wheels, stud piloted, available in multi-piece and RH5 version, uses an inner and outer nut mounting system, commonly uses left hand thread on the left side of the vehicle and right hand thread on the right side of the vehicle. Also available in tubeless.
Dayton wheels, this wheel is a heavy cast spoked design in which the rim with tire mounted is usually the only part removed to repair a flat tire, these were available in both tube type and tubeless style.
Tubeless
Kelsey, Firestone, Goodyear, Budd always half inch larger than tube type wheels, 17.5", 22.5",and 24.5" for example, available in many bolt patterns and widths, also rims for Dayton style wheels. I hope this helps.

Thank you 3B for that information and confirmation on the Kelsey hub pilot RH5 wheels. This is something that I would like to upgrade so I can easily find someone to replace a tire. Where those wheels available in different widths? I want to make sure that I get the correct size of 8.25" width.

Motor wheels is the generic term applied to hub piloted that was used by GM dating back to the 30's. It is similar to the generic name of Budd wheels for stud piloted wheels and the Budd company actually manufactured very few of them.

Wheels originally made to fit your vehicle were probably 5 1/2 and no more than 6" wide. to accommodate no larger than 9.00x20 tires. 8.25x20 was the most common. Tubeless wheels would have been either 5.25 or 6x22.5 and designed for either 8 or 9 by 22.5 tires. 8.25 wide wheels is what I use on the steering axle of my semis with 275/80R22.5 tires. 8.25 wide wheels were never manufactured for your vehicle. It would take a custom manufactured wheel with a much more offset to clear your tie rod ends.

Tires are measured by bead diameter. I think you are measuring from the outer edge of the rim which tells you nothing. You have 20" wheels. The width is can only be determined by demounting the tires.

You will have to shop the used market for wheels. Either 5 1/2 or 6" wheels will work with your 8.25 tires. Tubeless wheels are very scarce and I would certainly not buy tire until you have the wheels in hand.

What is your motive anyway. Are you just trying to get away from the R-H5° wheels? Depending on where you are located, you may not even find anyone to change the Goodyear type wheels either, even if you find some. A lot of tire shops refuse to change any kind of tube required tire.

I have several two ton trucks that came with R-H5° wheels. I recently bought a whole parts truck just to get the wheels.

Here is a picture of the 3 piece wheels on the parts truck.

https://plus.google.com/photos/108197707187186692269/albums/6038904364790673153

They are the even more rare older smaller hub wheels.

Thank you for the info crenwelge, very useful! Enough so, that I decided to annotate pictures of my wheels for figures to look at for discussion. Here they are:

http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/a...0%20Wheel%20Dimensions?sort=3&page=1

My intentions regarding the wheels are to keep similar size and change to wheel that will accept a tubeless/radial tire that way I will not have to worry about getting someone to change a tire. I know the wheels dimensions are important because I want to keep the same front and rear ends. Once I find the wheels I would like to then find tires that will roughly keep the same radius that is on there now, which is 38.5" in diameter.

Thanks for setting me straight on measurements crenwelge. As you can see in the photos you are right - I have 20" wheels. The outside of the rim is what I was measuring at 22.5". I took a rough measurement (without taking the tire off) and best I can tell is that the wheel width is 6". I am taking this measurement right where the 20" diameter curves to the horizontal plane. If I were to take the measurement with the tire off and at the inside edge of where it turns over could be 5.5" as noticed in Figure 3.

If I can move to radials would there be a preference between wheel width - 6" better than 5.5"? One easier to find than the other, especially considering common tire sizes?

Thanks again for all the advice here everyone!

Here is a pdf of Accuride's latest catalog.

http://www.accuridewheelendsolution...Accuride-Wheels-Catalog-2014-reduced.pdf

Page 21 shows how to measure rim width. 6" would be better for radials. But you will probably have to settle for what you can find. The ideal thing would be to find 22.5 wheels for tubeless, but they are very difficult to find.

Many tire dealers will tell you multi-piece wheels are illegal to change. If you scroll down the Accuride catalog, you will notice that Accuride still produces wheels for tube required tires. The tire shops just don't know to change them. 50 years ago, it was just the opposite. I was one of the first carriers to use tubeless tires, and no one knew how to change them

By now the discussion is not about "Motor Wheels" but I'd like to point out that they did make some 22.5" tubeless "Motor Wheels". I've seen a few and have one. https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/27f7Z2eadDH0BiN4RYzphNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink


Might want to correct the bolt circle diameter to read 7.25"


These wheels https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/VrjmxQELviMGsRliyeSPK9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
I agree. If you want tubeless wheels for this truck then you're looking for only one possible wheel. They were available on 56-59 Chevy 1.5 tons and the rim is 5.25" wide x 22.5". To run 9R22.5 tires you really ought to have a 6" wide wheel but you can't get that with a 10 lug on 7.25" bolt circle unless you have them made, and that is tough to do. I have mounted 9R22.5 tires on my old 5.25" wide wheels and they mounted easily and have given no trouble, so while not recommended by the book it seems to work.

Grigg

Grigg,I just looked at a '57 Chevrolet 6500 yesterday,and it has 6-bolt,6-hole 22.5's on it. Most of the '56-'59 1-1/2-2-ton trucks and buses that I've seen,have the 6-lug RH5's. How difficult is it to swap the 10 bolt wheels,to the 6-bolt? Can you simply swap the Hubs,or do you ave to change the bearings/(front axle) spindles as well? I'm asking for a friend,who wants to swap,for a similar project. THANKS!!

It all depends on the axles, size, model... I don't have a good answer for you.
I suppose you can swap entire axles if you wish.
To swap parts of them you'd need to at least do some checking on model numbers, or bearing numbers and or, kingpin size, and still likely do some test fit trial and error.

6 lug Budd stud centered wheels are more easily found in 22.5" than most of the other bolt patterns discussed so far. They were used for a long time and still are common today though if not in current production they were just a couple years ago.

THANK-YOU!! Nice to know the 6-lug are more common than the rest!!This may help others,as well!!