The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop Tie Rod End topic...again

In this tech tip http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/draglink_adjustable.html by "Carolines Truck" a statement is made that this is for pre '53 models. I have a 52 panel.

I ordered the two tie end rods and the sleeve listed in the tech tip. I crossed the NAPA numbers to Advance Auto #'s which are Moog parts. With my discount it was cheaper and NO shipping. I'll list the Advance #'s below for anyone wanting to know them.

I have new king pins & changed the steering arm and adjustable drag link when I put on power steering. This should complete my front end upgrade.

My Question.... if I read the tech tip correctly the holes which the current tie rod ball goes down into ARE TAPERED. Is that correct?
Which means that when I take the OLD ball out the NEW tie rod ends will drop in without reaming...correct?

For those who may need/want the numbers here they are. ES403R ES288L and ES426S
With my discount and tax $81.38 NAPA was $95.56 including tax. So if you buy any do your own comparison shopping even if you get a discount someplace.
EDIT: these numbers are for the DRAG LINK upgrade and not the TIE ROD. See the edit note below for correct numbers for the TIE ROD upgrade. 16Sept2011--Alvin


EDIT:-- 16 Sept.2011--- for those who do not read this thread all the way through.
The ABOVE numbers are NOT for the TIE ROD ENDS. They are for replacing the old drag link with a "sleeve" and two tie rod ends that go into the steering arm and pitman arm. The correct # for the ends for the TIE ROD are Classic Parts 76-005 for the pair.(which they came from CPP #4759TRE) They were $49 for the PAIR.
The other vendors have them to. Please read on down for some pics and clarification.

Alvin, you need to look at a replacement tie-rod made for a '52 to see if it's tapered or not. I didn't think they were till sometime much later.

According to the Filling Station site, up to 1959 used the ball and socket type with straight shaft holes. After '59 they went to a taper hole.

See part number AF-168 for details.

Joe

Joe, thanks for your reply. The more I read that tech tip and try to understand what/which is meant with all the different "tie rod" reference words its just not clear to my feeble mind.

If the tie rod ends were the same for so many years like the Filling Station says then why does the tech tip state PRE-53??

In one sense I read that the NEW tie rod ends I ordered will not be tapered and fit the control arm like they are.....then again it sort of reads like the holes in the control will have to be reamed/tapered for the new tie rod ends?

I'll get the tie rod ends tomorrow and will check them with my dial indicators..... then when I knock out the "ball studs" from the control arms I'll see if those holes are straight or tapered.
Worst case senario is I'll have to take the control arms off and have them tapered.
**by control arms I'm referring to the curved arm that is bolted through the backing plate to the spindle and the end of it where the end of the tie rod end goes into.

Whew, I'll figure it out! Maybe I'll go back and read the tip one more time.....naw, I'll wait and look at the tie rod ends tomorrow. Its late and my eye lids are heavy.

Hey Alvin, I helped do this swap with a local pal on his '34 4 door sedan to up grade the front end. We had to grind the back end of the balls off then use a hydraulic press to get them out! The holes were countersunk then tapered. No way they were the correct taper and we spent another hour hand reaming them to match the tie rod ends and depth. It worked out ok, though, because the taper was different enough that we got rid of all the original countersink. MAYBE this is what you are getting into on a larger scale! Just a thought.

Les

i just finished doing the tie rod upgrade. The control arm balls that the tie rod ends fit on are tapered. I used a set off a 47 1/2 ton truck. It was a pita to get them out. I ended up carrying the drivers side to a machine shop. The passenger side was hell getting the end out after I cut the ball off and ground the stud down. I drilled out the center then took a center punch and a three pound hammer. I put the control arm in a vice and beat the crap out of it until the little tapered stud cmae out. that little joker played hard to knock out until the very end. I took a bit the same size as the larger end of the taper and drilled it out. The new tie rod end fit perfect. When I carried the drivers side to the machine shop where a buddy of mine works he even had hell getting the thing out. All he said was they don't make em like that anymore. I picked up a extra driver side and passenger side control arm just in case I messsed up. I picked them up off epay for $15.00 each if I remember correctly.

Actually the holes are not tapered, they are more of a hour glass shape. As the ball studs are pressed in the bottoms swell to hold them in place. Think of a rivet and how they hold. Its tuff getting them out, but you want that on steering parts don't you?

A true tapered tie-rod or ball joint uses two different taper angles to hold them together. One is very slightly different then the other, thats why a taper joint will hold even when the lock nut is backed off.

Joe

I had thought I had come back and cleared up this but evidently it was another post.

To make sure we are talking apples and apples my panel is a 52. The other post I had going was probably where I was given the wrong part number by mistake and had some questions to help clear the mess up. Here is the "skinny" on mine.

As Joe says, the holes in the steering arm that the tie rod Ends go into are not tapered. I personally drilled them out and then punched them out with a hammer and punch as you see here.

You can see the back was "peened" and after grinding it down most will have a little "punch hole" where it was peened which is the center of the stud and you can use it as a center to dril.
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r19/LutherParris/52Panel/100_1416.jpg

Then grind the back side down smooth.
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r19/LutherParris/52Panel/100_1418.jpg

Then drill with a 1/4" and then 3/8"
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r19/LutherParris/52Panel/100_1419.jpg

Then I punched them out with punch and hammer. Results here.
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r19/LutherParris/52Panel/100_1420.jpg

I checked the stud with dial calipers and it is not tapered.
When I got the correct "new style" replacement tie rod ENDS they were NOT tapered either.
NOTE: When I say the new ones are not tapered I speak in general terms. They measure to have approximately a .010 taper from from where the threads stop to where the end seats in the steering arm. Its just not noticeable like on most pieces that you can really see the taper. Therefore NO reaming in necessary. As Joe alluded to I believe you want it tight!!

AND, just to add another note. Yes, there is a small chamfer on the steering arm but MY way of thinking is it was there to help guide the original ball stud into the hole when assembled.

HOpe this helps clear up any confusion or questions... and remember I'm speaking about my 52. I'm not sure what others are the same.

They need to replace the tech tip with your explaination on removing the ball off the control arm it's simple and to the point with great pics. thanks

Alvin,
Looks like the secret is finally getting out - you got to get past the chamfer. You ground down deeper it appears (no much, I believe one of the Tech articles say it is only .015 deep and wide) and then punching them out was a non-issue. The drilling out of the center, as the tech articles address as well, is a nice touch if nothing else but to keep the punch from wandering while you swing the hammer. I am stepping into this in the coming week for a second time... thanks for the encouragment.
Cavebull

Alvin,

Thank you. Coincidentally, I am on my way out to the garage to remove a worn-out oval ball. I'll be replacing that ball with a new ball with a threaded stem - this new ball/stem came with the reproduction original-style tie-rod ends that I bought from Rare Parts (via 'Reilly's mail order).

I have been watching this closely and picked up the 3 components listed in Jim’s tech tip in preparation for replacing my old drag link. Parts ES 403R and ES 288L have a 1.5” taper per foot or 7.125 degree included angle with a major diameter of 5/8”, a taper length of 5/8” and a small end diameter of .550” (approximately). The tech tip suggests pressing out the ball stud, welding up the hole, and machining the taper to match the new components. If the ball/stud is as tight as your collective experiences show I think I should be able to just grind the head off the ball and drill/taper ream the stud without removing it essentially ending up with a pressed in taper sleeve. Has anyone done it this way which appears easiest to me and would not require welding on the pitman/steering arms?

I had a 3/4" threaded shaft made and used two of the replacement tie-rod ends for my drag link. A cheap way of making your own threaded rod is to use a original tie-rod bar shorten up with new right hand threads cut. It saves you from buying a tapered reamer, but you do have to have a right hand thread 3/4"-11 die.

Don't weld the holes shut, the heat will kill the steering arm. Also don't try and use any portion of the original ball stud as it could work loose once disturbed. I think the studs are 1/2" diameter, so keeping it won't save you any material.

Joe

Thanks Joe. Can anyone confirm the ball stud/stem hole in the pitman and steering arm is no bigger than 9/16" in which case they could just be knocked out, taper reamed and call it done?

Today I removed the first of the 4 ball studs, this one from the passenger side steering arm. I took 12 pictures of the process. They show close ups or the chamfer on the top of the stud (ball side), each removed part in the process, the shoulder, the pressing out of the offending stud. Incidenlty, no drilling was required.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dodsonbrett/sets/72157627652317197/

Cavebull

Curt,
I will confirm they are not greater than 9/16". By the tape they are between 1/2" and 9/16" - need a mic on them. The set I did originally, I tappered after the ball studs were removed. As easy as it is to remove them, I say just do it.
The key on mine is that the chamfer is on the top (ball side)and press them down and out toward the bottom.
Cavebull

Thanks cavebull. If I understand correctly it appears using components designed for pre 1959 vehicles (I didn’t see numbers for these) have a straight shank and are a direct fit in the holes of the pitman and steering arms and if using the components in the tech tip taper reaming is required but sufficient material exists. That’s encouraging enough for me to drop off a couple used taper endmills for grinding as I am a fan of the stability a taper fit provides.

Curt,
Can't speak to the type of shank per years, but tappering them without filling in holes after ball studs are removed was not necessary in the set I did.
On a related note I pressed out the other 3 studs today and found a slight chamfer on the backside (peened end) of the pitman arm ball stud. This is opposite of the other 3 removed from the steering arms where the chamfer was on the top (ball side). Either was a non-issue.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dodsonbrett/sets/72157627652317197/
Cavebull