The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Tool Chest New AIR COMPRESSOR

I got a NEW< BIG COMPRESSOR! It's 220 and draws 19.5 amps. 4 cylinders. Now I have to pour a concrete slab for it.
I want to build a small house around it to protect it from the weather. I plan on using lattice construction around the top 12" for cooling.
I will use a #8 cord to build a cord to power it, I will un-plug the cord when not in use.
It's a Cambell Hausfield 80 Gallon and I got it for a screaming price.
I

Sounds like you picked up a winner at a good price. Air compressors are like garages,or shops,they can never be too big.Hope ya get er hooked up and running soon.Good Luck

Just a tip for you .My compressors instructions said not to use a plug .You might want to check yours.I use the on off switch on it and the breaker if its off for any long period of time ,almost never is off .Also the plugs and sockets are pricey .My compressor is a craftsman pro 80 gallon and 220 also .Just my two cents hope it will help .

I agree completely with webster... only correct way to wire it is to go through a breaker switch in it's own little box and using conduit or flex conduit. Particularly important if it's outside. Also check your local electrical codes.

Agreed, hard wire it into the panel inside your shop, its way too soggy in WA to have the electrics in an unheated building outside.
If the little building is going to have a steel roof, make sure its insulated otherwise it will rain inside all over you new compressor.
I would nix the lattice too, 12" of that is leaving a big hole for the november rains to just pour through!
Something like a bathroom exhaust fan would be plenty of air moving around a little building with a vent on the opposite side.
Nice to have it out in a little room though, get rid of all the noise!

What are you doing as far as air lines in your shop? I've always used schedule 80 black pipe but no one here has a pipe threading machine any longer. Having it cut threaded offsite means the measurements need to be dead on and that is not likely. A plumber told me he had used schedule 80 PVC in a new motorcycle shop and it was working just fine. Personally I'm a little leary but he swears by it. No code here to worrry about so that is a plus for it. Seems PVC has taken over.

I'm not interested in opinions but real world experience with this material in this usage is worth a lot if you'd share it.
Thanks.

Home Depot can thread pipe .Learned that after I was finished. I used the pvc about 150 feet of it around my shop .No problems yet .I was told when it blows someday it is in small pieces .It was less than the steel pipe and I was on budget. I used 1 inch with about 12 female couplings and a shut off valve at the compressor connection .

I've read about using PVC, and does not sound like a long lasting and safe idea to me, although I gather it does work. I won't try it.
Black iron and or copper seem to be the most reliable and pretty expensive. Although there are specialty air line products out there too that are quite expensive.

It's a hard decision and hard to understand and compare the options, risk, and benefits. I don't yet know what I'll do.

Grigg

I was thinking of using Pex tubing for air lines. Easy to run, durable, no rust buildup, and rated for up to 160-180 psi.

Check out the rapid air products, used black metal pipe like others have mentioned from the compressor to the filter/dryer/reg. and then hooked in the rapid air system. Works great!

http://www.rapidairproducts.com/

Hank

Black pipe and a plumbing system like this is inexpensive, easy to install (with hardware-store lengths and with Harbor Freight shut-offs), it is safe, and it results in more effective condensation of moisture and drainage of moisture away from the supplied/delivered air.

I agree to a point Tim, the black pipe will provide more condensation of the heated air from the compressor. What I did was use this from the compressor and ran it up the wall sort of like an inverted "u". On the down side of the "u" I ran an outlet valve to release the moisture and just above, I ran a "t" to link over to my filter/reg./ etc. After the air runs through the filter, my opinion is it is cooler and running a system like rapid air is fine. With our humidity here, a desecant filter in line before a spraygun and it's good to go.
Hank

I've used black pipe in all my other shops and condensation was always an issue not to mention the rust/corrossion problem.

Since I posted my question yesterday I have done some research and find some interesting things regarding the use of PVC:
a. not recognised by it's manfacturers or by OSHA as an air
conduit.
b. many insurance companies won't accept it for coverage.
c. history of damsge/injury incidents from flying plastic shards
d. Some say it doesn't show up on an x-ray although I am
dubious about this.

Another deciding factor is the black pipe available here is Chinese or worse and I've no desire to help them.

My conclusion is that this is way too much to leave to chance to save a few bucks. I've decided to go with the Rapidair Products
system shared above in another post. I've spoken to them today and am ordering it and feel quite comfortable with it as it is very similar to the nylon airline I've used on so many heavy trucks in the past. The outlet fittings are just what I wanted.
Not all that expensive IMO and more than easy to use. Thanks for the recommendation Hankdogg.

Most PVC pipe mfrs and vendors will adamantly say not to use for compressed air or vacuum due to shrapnel.

There IS a PVC built for air but pretty expensive and lines droop after a while. I do not recommend this.

Black iron WAS the choice for air but due to rust almost everyone is switching to copper for the distribution system. Use silver solder for fittings close to compressor going to reservoir. Out of the reservoir where they are cool sweat solder works like a charm.

Ingersoll Rand has good guidelines on putting in a system.

Dan Bentler

If you do not like black pipe and are not interested in trying copper and you are considering plastic pipe, try this out and let us know how it works out.

However, it is probably only 3/8" tubing (no, it is 1/2").

no...it is 3/8 which is probably enough in most personal garages.

I plumbed with black pipe with an angle dropping back to compressor and I have one drop as a relief valve and one goes to HF industrial filter and the flexible hose. All home depot stuff cost 100 bucks (2 car garage) and I used all day doing priming, painting etc. Not a drop of water through my tools or spray gun. when I released air pressure from compressor and relief valve lot of water came. It is working very good for me.

My experience

Ganesh

I went to the website Tim advise's and it does look the same as the Radipair Products that I purchased, even to the extent of the photos being the same. So I e-mailed the link of H-F page to Rapid and got a response within 3 minutes. The lady I spoke to yesterday called me and gave me the skinny on what H-F is doing.
She said it is definately not the same product and invited my comparison. Said she had a drawer full of complaints of people claiming they had bought it and had all kinds of problems, fittings being the main concern. H-F will do nothing for them naturally since all they have are know nothing clerks and some young strong back types to do the heavy lifting.

Nearly all think it's Rapid's product. She said H-F approached them at a trade show and expressed interest in it so they sent them a sample kit. Next thing you know it was coming over on the boat and they even hijacked Rapid's photos. I totally believe this yound lady who was so sincere and knowledgable. My order will arive Monday and I have no regrets. But I'll continue to buy those big aluminum dustpans from Harbor,

So if you want nice fresh clean oats they are a certain price. If you will take them after they have been processed through the horse they are a little cheaper.
Keep smilin' boys, life is short.

Hope all works well for you Dave, going on 3 months now with the rapid air system and I love it, the air outlets are awesome and I talked with a one of their sales rep. ladies on the phone before and she was great to deal with as well.

I think I would go after H-F with a legal if they were doing that with my co.'s product.

Let us know how it goes!

Hank

I've always used galvanized pipe, costs a little more than black iron but then you won't have the rust problems. You can get a cheap Harbor Freight pipe threader that will easily last long enough to do your shop.

[quote=53moneypit] She said H-F approached them at a trade show and expressed interest in it so they sent them a sample kit. Next thing you know it was coming over on the boat and they even hijacked Rapid's photos.]

Poor business ethics to vendors will show up to customers also!!

Here is an interesting discussion about galvanized pipe, etc.

Here is a better discussion of various types of pipe.

My 2 cents. I have an 80 gallon IR compressor that I use to run compressed air across my shop, primarily to supply my Plasma cutter to operate a CNC machine. Started out going the cheap route. PVC all the way around. Had no issues with the pipe, but did have one fitting explode. put a bandaid on it until I could shut down long enough to replace and do it right.

I ran black pipe 3/4" all over and not looked back. Ran a dedicated dry line to the plasma cutter. run the rest with a seperator and oiler. Dropped from the ceiling to a tee and hose release fitting. From the bottom of the tee drop a 8" nipple and a ball valve to drain any moisture that has made the trip.

Just make sure that you can dump every low spot and slope the pipe so it doesn't accumulate. Regardless of the system, make sure you can access it after the fact to repair/add to it.

I tried PVC in the 80's. It didn't last very long. I bought a bunch of sticks 7/8" hard copper about 10' long each. My son put it all together with compression fittings when he was in high school. He graduated in 93 and we have had no problems. We have added some to it since and used refrigeration copper. I like the 7/8" because we get good volume to our 1" impact wrenches. Another option would be Synflex air brake hose. http://www.eatonhydraulics.com/products/pdfs/E-PNOV-MS003-E.pdf We have some 25 year old trailers plumbed with Synflex and never had any trouble. It is available at any heavy truck or trailer dealer. It is reasonable and fittings are reasonable and it is easy to use.

I have received the Rapidair Products hose and fittings and I must say I am very impressed with it. As luck would hve it a few days after ordering it I got a catalog in the mail selling it for less, oh well, the story of my life.

Anyway I am pleased and the service from the RapidAir folks was just incredible...the way it used to be everywhere so I don't mind the price. Fittings are beautiful.

Dave, can you post some pictures?
Also, where do you recommend buying it?

Grigg

I looked at the Rapidair website. It's just nylon air brake hose and the common fittings you can buy at any heavy truck or trailer dealership. Synflex is the brand name that people use to refer to any nylon air brake hose. If I had to do it over again, I would probably use it simply for the ease of installation. I would however buy the tubing and all the parts from a trailer dealer and get exactly what I wanted. I buy mine from these guys. http://www.cornhusker800.com/ They also custom build trailers for me.

It is nylon tubing but not Synflex and the fittings are not compression type using sleeves that I am familiar with on trucks. Also they are chrome and the manifolds outlet blocks are really different and very nice made from plated solid steel. So I don't think I'd want to save a few bucks and go with truck parts. Again I'm very pleased with this product and do highly recommend it. Lots of ways to go on this stuff obviously so suit yourselves.

Grigg, sorry no photos as my camera/new computer are not compatible. As soon as I buy a new camera they will change the software again and well, you know how that works. Another example of manufacturers not supporting their products. I think they call it "planned obsolescence". I saw it in Great Plains catalog.

Might check Northern Tool as well Grigg, they had a kit for around 100 bucks if I remember what I paid. Use one of their 20 dollars off coupons and you have a good deal.

Hank

Nope, check one of Dave's earlier post on the HF kit, think the Northern tools one is the same?
I won't be buying a counterfeit plumbing kit at any price.

Grigg

Edit,
Dave indicates that the Northern kit may be the real thing, worth checking into.

Grigg, that's were I got my rapid air kit from was Northern, it is the real deal.

Hank

schedule 40 pvc is rated to like 400 or something. I did my shop in it and it works perfect. There is no danger, once that joint is glued (properly) it is that way forever. since its a pressure line make sure that you use the purple primer. I challenge anyone to glue it, wait 5 minutes and just try to pull it apart. As long as it holds air...work good last long time. The tricky part are the pvc to air line connections.

One of the biggest concerns is not pulling a PVC joint apart by hand, but having a pipe or fitting explode and blow chunks.

Wouldn't be safe to do, but fill a section with 150 PSI and drop something heavy on it and observe the results.

I had a PVC tater cannon explode in my hands, knowing how that goes I certanly won't be using PVC for shop air lines.

Grigg

True but a cannon (I'm a redneck and familiar with the tater cannon) is an explosive expansion of air and if I remember correctly from engineering class in college explosive forces (even if equal to pressure to that which is static) is not evenly distributed through its container causes failure where the explosion is focused. Now if you add air pressure to the system slow it wouldn't exploded just leak if there is a problem. Now if you strike it while under pressure that's a different story. If mounted properly then the likely hood of hitting it hard enough to create cataclysmic failure is small, and even then you would have balance risk and benefit. Let me end with this, I don't want to sound like a smart #$$, so if anyone has info that is reliable (maybe with some references) that contradicts what I said, please let us know.

Also I look at it like this. If the manufacture is labeling the product with a 400 or so PSI rating, then I imagine that to keep litigation to a minimum then they have tested to that pressure (and I bet 10-15% higher) and have found it safe. It doesn't matter what is creating that pressure (water, air, propane, fart gas)a fluid is a fluid and has the same dynamics (most of the time). Plus if we're talking about strength then why don't car manufactures make parts out titanium? Because steel is just fine under the circumstances and cost significantly less, balancing cost and benefits.

I'm not arguing strength, what you may not be considering is failure mode.

A pipe that throws chunks at high speeds is a much less attractive option than one that only cracks or splits but remains in one piece.

Also air under pressure is a lot more dangerous than water, air pressure is stored energy, hydraulic pressure (without air) is not so much...

Grigg

I recently found the compressor I have been looking for and am getting ready to plumb my shop. I am leaning towards the Rapid Air system mostly because I want more than several locations for air outlets and reels.
Black pipe would be my first choice but running 20ft pieces by yourself can be difficult(my ceiling is high). I can do the RA pipe on my own.

Reading this was all the info I needed to not consider PVC

http://www.osha.gov/dts/hib/hib_data/hib19880520.html

Billy

I believe the ASTM test methods used for schedule 40 and schedule 80 PVC pipe are for liquid service only so the pressure rating on the pipe does not apply to gas or air service.

I worked at a machine shop where PVC was used for air lines-it was put up 20+ yrs ago-it broke somewhere about once a month-boss just kept glue/couplings on hand. I think chemicals/oil in the air supply must make it brittle over time.

I just ran mine in black pipe, cheap, worked well...the local lumber shed cuts & threads it to length.

If I had a choice between PVC and PEX there would be no more thought about it. I would go PEX. It will just burst without throwing fragments. Easier to run and replace, and it isn't brittle to begin with.
I don't care for black pipe because the moisture will rust and the rust will clog up the couplers/tools if you don't have a trap at each end, and if I had to use a solid line I would go copper over black pipe.