The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk All Original 49 3100?

A truck is for sale in WA that the seller claims is all original with only 12000 miles. He's asking $15000.00. Two questions. Is the price ok? And second, any advice on how to tell for sure that the truck is truly original?
Thanks

Study up on what is original for a '49 then take a road trip. Good luck.

Where has it been parked the last 60 years? If its been in an Eastern Washington garage it might be in spectacular condition and easily worth that money. If its been under a tree in Western (Wetter) Washington it could be low miles and all original and hardly worth scrap metal.

As for how to tell if its original or not, there is no registry of serial numbers and parts numbers that will confirm its matching number original. You can check the serial and casting numbers on major components, but all you are really doing it confirming they could be original.

The paperwork would give a clue. If the ownership can be traced back to new and is all people the seller knows, the claim in more credible than if they bought it from some farmer and don't remember his name or any more about the trucks history.

I'd ask what all-original means to this seller. Is it actually all the original parts it left the factory with, or has it been restored with the correct parts to be original.

If I really cared about original parts I'd take lots of pictures in good light, inside, outside and underneath, and post them somewhere that people from sites like this can see and comment on. Various people will spot details that can be very telling and easily missed in a 30 minute look at the truck.

I might even brag about how original it was and in that way challenge people to find things that prove it isn't.

That's my two cents.

oldsub, you are devilishly clever.

dierks321, just because the odometer says 12,000 doesn't mean anything. My truck has 10,005 miles on it, speedo hasn't worked in 15 years. It has to be documented. gas receipts maintenance log etc. I would suspect 112,000 or even 212,000 look at the pedals for originality and signs of use, if they look brand new they have probably been replaced with new. I'm not saying the seller is going to be a sheister, but everyone is suspect until proven innocent in the used car business.

This truck was on E-bay a couple of weeks ago. Seller claimed that it had been on blocks in a garage in Eastern WA. since around '61 or so, until he got ahold of it recently from the original owner. Looked to be a very solid, straight, original paint truck,(it was black), but it was hard to tell from the photos just how good of shape. He also claimed to have gone through it with a tune-up, exhaust, etc, and he claimed he had kept all the original parts he replaced. So, if your pretty sharp about what original parts were on it, this would be a good indicator. If it's legit, and from what I remember of the photos, it would probably be a fair buy. Don't expect to turn it over for a profit in today's climate, but it's a fair price.

Bob

Hello Bob,

Your right, this was on ebay. The truck looked good and he provided a number of photos that made it seem that he was legit. I would be buying it for a driver. I remember riding with my dad in a 49 back in the day. From what I can gather from the internet black was a factory option. Any suggestions on how to easily determine that the paint is original? Thank you to everyone for the help.

Steve

Look at the vin listed on the title and compare that to the serial number on the block. My '53 was/is a Washington truck and the numbers matched. The casting numbers confirm a '53 as well. So there is more probability then not, that it is a '53 with original equipment. I dont see a lot of previous owners going through the hassle of having the vin changed to match the title when replacing the engine. Just a thought.

See if you can get the contact information from the owner in eastern WA so you can ask about the trucks history.

Jeff

Ok gang, here is the link to the Ebay listing where it didn't meet reserve, but was up to $11,305.

Check out the photos and let dierks321 know what ya'll think.

Looks to be very clean and original, but I don't know these older trucks very well.

Moderator note: Ebay links are not allowed in General Truck Talk for the reasons listed in Why posts are edited, moved or deleted.

The floor of the bed appears to be original. The finish has been long talked about. It also looks like the spare tire carrier is in place and thats another indication of light use.
Don

A truck with a tune-up and new exhaust is not "all original" to a serious auto collector. Also replaced, according to the ad,

" I have replaced the following items and kept every single thing that I took off (factory spark plugs, wiper blades, fan belt, ect) Replaced battery, heater hoses, exhaust system - front to back, (factory correct), wheel cylinders, master cylinder, 5 new bias ply (same size as original) tires, carb kit, rear main seal (big job) all motor gaskets, all fluids from radiator to rear end, oil filter, block and radiator professionly flushed and cleaned, complete tune up (points, plugs, ect) valves adjusted, excellent compression checked and the same on each cylinder, all zirks greased, front end aligned, wiper blades replaced, cab and door rubber gaskets, original hand crank (to hand start) Wheel bearings all the way around (4) New tubes in tires,..."

This truck is well on the way to being "restored to stock condition" but is no where near "all original".

well that,s steep price.15,000.I put mine together for $18,000 street rod.Iwould go $5500.No pictures???Sound like the fellow just wants to show it off.But its your bag.Tooo much $$$$ being all stock.If ya got the money look around,don'tjump at the first thing and kick yourself in the butt later.you can have mine for $35,000.look at the gallery for 51 chevy dan-pa.be careful on what you look at.most times I look at photo;s.looked at the truck in person and it was a piece of crap.the photo's were 20 years old.but goodluck

I already discussed this with Bob off the forum but there were a few things that didn't seem right to me.
The inside window garnish and steering wheel seem to have a lot more wear than you would see from 12,000 miles use. The engine compartment has had the snot washed out of it to the point that most of the paint on the engine is washed off, which I wouldn't expect with only 12k on it. There is a LOT of rust under the truck, the undercarriage does not suggest a low mileage vehicle to me. There are some funny rust patterns on the truck, like the fairly heavy surface rust on the left bed apron that looks heavier than the rest of the truck. No rubber on the pedals hard to believe those would be worn out with low mileage.
I'd pull a front and rear drum and take a good look at the brakes also before I shelled out fifteen grand. Like Dan says, there are a lot of pretty nice restored trucks out there for that kind of money.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

What is the piece of pipe over the heater hose at the firewall ?

I don't see anything odd about the heater hose connections. This truck has a Chevrolet Reciculating Heater and this is the normal hose connections.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, ILL

I guess the flash is making it look like a fuel line running the width of the firewall curving around the heater hose.

I emailed the seller and asked if he had any service records and asked if I could get the name of the original owner. In his ad he claimed that he purchased the truck from the original owner. He responded that the only records he had was a oil change door sticker with the 12000 miles notation similar to the odometer. He also said that the original owner was deceased. I emailed him back and asked the name and address of the original owner. He emailed me back and said that he would reveal the deceased owner's name and his widow's name to the new owner of the truck not before. I know what I think, what do you think.

Regards,
dierks321

start looking at other trucks. for that price i will finish mine and sell it to you.

Took a peek at the listing... the truck looks right. I love it! You COULD buy a restored/finished truck for similar money, but you will NOT have a truck that is unique. As they say... They are original only ONCE! Go try and find another!
As for the rust underneath, some of the parts had no finish on them when new and began to oxidize on day one. Other parts only had thin chassis paint, and age shows. It's called patina. Actually, a lot of folks are trying hard to fake that look nowadays. This is REAL!
Imagine if the exterior of the car was painted the same way, then was splashed with twelve thousand miles of dirt, mud, water and so on, and never washed. It would look like heck too.
If you have a soft spot for this era truck, and you appreciate originality, then consider this truck some more. Buy a plane ticket and go look long and hard at it. Examine the parts the guy took off and see if it all checks out.
I prefer later trucks and found/purchased a '66 with only 8800 miles on it. Almost exactly the same story. It was in a garage in WA for every day of it's life and basically unused for the last forty years. The original owners family had prepped it for sale and unfortunately had done some things that should have been left alone. A pressure washer can do a lot of damage in a hurry in the engine compartment. Old engine paint just blows right off along with the dirt and oil.
Anyway, I have been admiring trucks for all of my adult life and nothing comes close to a highly original survivor. You can have all the glossy, restored and upgraded ones as they number in the millions and do nothing for me anymore.
Do your homework and you might end up with that '49 black beauty. If what you really want is a shiny truck with lots of billet and braided stainless, then leave this one alone!

I am with oem4me on every point he (or she) makes. dan-pa thinks a street-rod is worth more than an original, I do not. Cletis thinks this truck is "nowhere near original" and I disagree with that, too. Emphatically. We have had this semantic discussion before, here, and came to no useful conclusion; certainly no concensus I could discern. If the oil has been changerd it is not original? Yeah, whatever.

For what it is worth, Steve, I believe this truck to be more valuable by far than any current model with 12,000 miles and would snap it up at that price in a second. Then I'd reroute that exhaust pipe so it didn't high-centre, replace the side mirror with a pair of bigger ones (with a convex or two) and the tires with radials. And then I'd have my daily driver.

What I am saying is, go, look, and - if there are no surprises - bag that girl before someone else does!

Nice looking clean truck. Most trucks back then were bought for one reason and that was work. That is why it is so odd to see one without the bed beaten up and other body work needed. Low mileage trucks usually did farm duty and would show some heavy rough treatment after retiring.
I suspect this one was bought by a little, old maid schoolteacher who only drove it on Sundays.

If it only has 12,000 miles why would someone be changing things like wheel bearings? I saw a 63 Pontiac for sale recently with 63,000 miles on it. The engine had been rebuilt! Why I wonder.

I too began wondering. The seller's reluctance to reveal the name of the 'original owner' made me concerned. As I mentioned, the seller had presented the truck as having been purchased from the original owner. That coupled with a number of comments made by stovebolt members on this forum caused me to decide to pass on the deal. $15000.00 for a truck that could not really be confirmed as original is too much. As someone mentioned in this thread, $15000.00 can buy a really nice restored truck.

Thanks to all for their input.

Steve

The refusal to reveal the name and contact for the original owner would be a deal breaker for me. Without that you're simply taking his word and sorry guys, if a seller makes a claim that significant and can't back it up that's the first lie you caught him in.

Come clean or look for another sucker.

I agree with not giving out the name and contact for the original owner. That could result in several people calling or visiting the previous owner's family, sniffing around for other stuff, and becoming a nuisance.

That might be the true reason for not giving out the name however it gives one the suspicion that something is not on the up and up. If you just have to have an original, they are everywhere, just not in that condition. If condition is important they are somewhere and for a lot less $$$.

Yeah, we see 'em all the time. 12000 mile, sixty year old trucks with original paint. And for cheap. Wait! uh, what?? Could Big Chevy please send me a private message each time he sees one. I'll gladly pay a finders fee. Also, though I haven't spoken with the seller and assessed his character, his refusal to reveal the original owners info to anybody that wants it is absolutely proper. Maybe after a deposit has been given, or at least a serious verbal commitment to buy. If after that he refuses, then it would appear shady. But then, the truck is still an amazing find.

The seller knew I was a serious buyer yet still would not reveal any info. I can't help but think that if he were legit he would have emailed me back and explained why he was reluctant to give out the name. Had he done so I would have understood. After I emailed him and explained that I was concerned about coming all that way without more info he simply emailed me back 'ok'.

Lot's of good points made, but I have to conclude this one is for real. I may disagree on a few of his embellishments and a close up inspection would have revealed that there is some touch up paint work on the passenger side front fender. This is probably why this truck sat for so long, the owner wrecked it, had it repaired and then let it sit. The front fenders have some bumps on them, making them flat in some areas.

If this truck sat in a barn with a dirt floor, some of the rust that is evident on the undercarriage would not be unusual. The steering wheel does have a lot more wear than I would suspect, but who knows the kids, grand kids and the great grand kids may have been driving this truck in the barn for a long time or simply, the driver wore work gloves and drove this often for short distances. The running boards look amazingly good and it appears to be original paint and the floorboards look exceptionally nice and not repainted. The amount of work need to make this appear as nice as it does was necessary. When something sits as long as this one did (no mention of when the last time this truck was driven) things fail, parts decay and years of crud accumulate. That explains why the engine was pressure washed to oblivion, grease and dusty roads play havoc on old trucks. One thing that is fortunate, I see no evidence of varmits living in the cab!

As far as not giving out specific information over the internet, I could understand the reluctance. If I were the seller, I would not give it out unless you were serious with money in hand. Most likely the previous owners are unaware that the truck is back for sale (at a price far more than what they sold it for) and other than yes we sold it, yes it sat for a long time and yes, it was original miles. Most likely they would not be able to offer more information than that, and I don't think that the information is as important as a real close-up inspection with knowledgeable people.

We have bolter's that are close to this truck, I am sure a simple help! would have sent them over to check it out for anyone interested in it. Did anyone ask if he had pictures of this truck before he cleaned it up? Is the price fair for this truck? This truck is for someone who wants an original low mileage truck and there are few guidelines in determining the value passed a certain point. The seller is not going to sell it for less than $12,000 and the buyer has to determine if he is going to pay more. I don't think the seller is in a hurry to sell it, I think he knows this one will go up in value just sitting in his garage.

All of this is moot if after a close up inspection reveals a lot more information than we have been given through pictures and a description from a guy who wants to get as much money as he can.

You will notice if you had read the post thoroughly that I said these originals can be found somewhere (not everywhere), therefore requiring you to LOOK for them. ...back to McGuffey's Readers...

Because when things are not used and sit, the oil separates from the wax base of the grease and things seize or break.

I will say if you look at my 49 3100, I got it for 5k from the original owner, with all service records, and the original title, as well as some of the original tools. The truck had 56k miles on it, and had had the seat recovered, and a new fuel pump, and the owner had added some pin striping after purchase, but at the original dealer(have the receipt)
I have not looked at your pics yet, but if you click my link, take a look at this 49 and you be the judge. I did repaint the engine after a re-gasketing.

1949 3100

My 1948 3100 was all original when I bought it for $2800. Not pretty, and lots of mechanical issues, but it was all original. Here's a couple of pics:
left side view
rear view
right side view
front view

I have 4 1949 trucks, 3 are in original condition. I would ask him to email the vin and engine number and not post it because before you make a bid you want to verify that you will get your money's worth out of the truck. I looks pretty nice. It is missing the lower cab to door seal on the passenger side(missing along with the screws in the battery box picture) I would verify the serials and when the truck was put together- that will also give you some of the option info. It does look like the engine was wire wheeled all the way around, or maybe just the removable panels, I have to agree with earlier comments that the steering wheel paint is very worn compared tot he rest of the cab paint. The floor mat looks like a replacement. I did not look at the carb enough, should be a w-1 similar to a late 48 or the one year only 49. The wear parts are normal and if you are going to make a daily driver expect to replace a fair amount of items. Be ready to replace most of the engine seals, and oil filter lines, as well as the gaskets on the trans and rear end, as well as the rear axle seals- after some driving they will begin to leak because of their age- and the most likely large amount of pressure washing.

An old friend told me that if you by an antique powered anything, you will spend at least three times what you got it for fixing it up.

So say 10-15k for the truck, the current owner has done a lot of work, but it is still an old truck. It will need some more work which will cost time and money.

so might not be bad, might also be kind of high, especially with no solid way of backing up the extremely low mileage.

I would not pass it over though without some solid inspections of the truck(you know wearing coveralls climbing all over it if possible.

I bought both my 3800 and 4400 off ebay. I asked each seller if I could inspect the trucks prior to purchase in their presence. They agreed without hesitation. They were both within a 4 hour drive of me.

So maybe a fellow bolter could help since this one is maybe not the closest.