The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Can I install a Caddilac Northsta in my 48

I am restoring my 48 5 window. I think it would be really cool to install a Cadillac Northstar in my truck. My question is can it be done. My next question is can it be done reasonably? What is reasonable? I don't know I guess less than a $1000. for wiring.

Thanks
Tom

Hy Tom, WE used to say to customers who asked such questions "Anything will fit in anything, how much money do you have? Seriously though you will probably have to relocate/modify/replace your steering box, or were you planning on clipping it. An upgrade to 12 volts will be required, for the engine computer, thats just a couple of things I thought of when I read your post, good luck with the project, please keep us up to date with your progress.

You know the predecessor to the Caddy North star was actually torquier and the northstar just winds up better, as to be expected with a 32v V8. I think I would look for that motor first as it would probably be better for a truck. Test drive a 90 seville vs a 92 and see what you think. The Northstar has the starter motor under the intake manifold and would probably be 'unpleasant' to service.

It cost me about $450 to replace my starter.

I read an article in hot rod or car craft that said gm was making them availble as a long block???

Hi Guys:
Thanks for the response. I have been doing some research today. Found out only one company make a conversion kit for it. The cost for this kit is $2000 plus probably $2000 for install. Seems a little excessive. But since they are the only one in the game they think it's reasonable.

I thought it would be cool to have something unusual. But I think I am going to shift gears and rethink. Tell me what you would do. I can install motors and trans just can't rebuild.

TELL ME WHAT YOU WOULD INSTALL IN THE TRUCK IF IT WAS YOURS! Keep in mind let's be reasonable. $$$$ wise
Thanks
Tom

I drive a 90 DeVille. Aluminum V8, advertised hp is 180. It does a good job pulling the big car around. Allante used a more powerful version of the motor, if you can find one. Mine is prone to develop oil leaks but I always thought it would make a great hot rod motor. Interested in what you decide to do. Keep us informed.

Mar-Ktech

I had a 91 Deville and I have a 99 Deville now,the Northstar is a better engine in my opinion.My brother also had a sandrail w/ a northstar,it was a screamer.

im sure you know that the northstar has never came with a rear wheel drive trans.a v6 700r4 can be modified to work.or you could make your truck front wheel drive.

my dad had a 99 deville, that northstar is pretty impressive. it would make a great hot rod motor. i have seen one in a 56 chevy coupe...pretty sweet. i am not sure about the trannies available, interesting point zenish. i say go for it if you can make it work.

Oh ya I know that the caddilac with a modified 700 r4 will work. My problem is HOOOOOOOWWWWWWWW Much do I really want to put into this? I think if I won the lottery I would do it without even thinking. I think that in my best interest I think I am going to stick with the 350.

I've been thinking about putting a Northstar in a four-wheel-drive S-10 frame using the all-wheel-drive transfer case from an Astro van and putting that whole combination under one of my AD trucks.

A friend has a low mileage mid-90's DeVille that has been crunched and which I can get cheap.

I have seen a Northstar with the front drive stuff under the front of a '53 Ford panel truck. That truck was setup for wheelchair access through the rear doors to allow a paraplegic drive a hot rod.

I think using the Northstar is a fun idea, and one I think a patient guy who doesn't mind spending a little money could make work.

But if your first concern is budget I'd say run the 350 instead.

Nice engine, but I hate how they put the starter UNDER the intake in the valley. Like they couldn't find a better place to put a starter. As long as you don't ever have to change the starter, I guess it would make a nice rod motor.

i would look at the straight six in the bravada. modern but still a straight six. ron

And with electronic fuel injection.

Quote:
TELL ME WHAT YOU WOULD INSTALL IN THE TRUCK IF IT WAS YOURS! Keep in mind let's be reasonable. $$$$ wise
Thanks
Tom

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My first choice would be a BOP 455 engine, but the problem is the bolt pattern. Probably have to run a BOP TH400 or a Muncie with a BOP bellhousing, and they don't have the greatest 1st gear ratio for a truck. But with all that torque...

Second choice would be a torquey Chevy small block. I know, many consider them "boring", but you can't beat the economy to own one and have up to twice the torque as a stovebolt engine. Especially if you put a small supercharger on it, such as a Wieand 144 or 177 roots.

Third choice would be to add a power adder for forced induction on a stovebolt engine. And that would give you more of an original feel, but still have around the power of a naturally aspirated Chevy 350.

I'm not sure that the starter under the intake might actually be a bonus. Chevy used several different V6's in the '80s and early '90s in the Camaro and S-10s. The same engines were used in FWD cars but are not interchangeable. The starters are on opposite sides. Chevy sells a 3.4 crate engine with starter mounts on both sides for replacement of 2.8, 3.1 and 3.4 in RWD or FWD.
The neutral starter location might be one less hurtle for conversion to RWD.
Gm has an entirely different 3.4 DOHC that was fairly rare, had high HP and revved to about 8,000. I always thought it would make a great replacement for my sons 2.8 Camaro, but the starter problem. Doesn't matter anymore, as the car's gone.

I talked to a couple of places and they were telling me 10,000. to convert including engine and trans. My budget is whatever I want to spend. I think 10,000 for a motor and trans set up is a little extreme.

I'm still liking the 350 set up.
Tom

My Dad has a 71 Eldorado convertable with a 500+c.i.(can't remeber exact displacement). I think that motor hopped-up would be cool in an old chevy truck. Tell me if I'm wrong, but I don't think a project like that would be as expensive as a modern caddy motor.

HMmmmm-why not go with the front wheel drive idea? That'd be an attention getter,it'd handle and ride nice,and it'd be the east way to make the northstar fit your truck.
Speed

put a 350 in her and smile all the way to the bank

Apparenly a leaky pan gasket is quite common on the Northstar which requires pulling the engine out to replace. It's more complex than a gasket replacement but the Dealer quoted me $1800-$2500 to replace that gasket. An independant mechanic quoted me $1200. I sold that Seville instead and discounted $1200 on the selling price and gave the buyer the name & phone number of the mechanic.

BTW, several years back in Classic Trucks magazine there was a low sitting '56 Chevy Big Window cab with a tandem wheels under an 18' flatbed behind it. It had a Cadillac '71 front wheel drive engine. It was sweet looking. I have a '67 Big Window cab and a Carson trailer but no time for ANOTHER project .

I've seen several done that way, including a couple of COEs that were real low and very well done.

Looks like a fun project.

If I were putting a Northstar in an old truck I'd try to engineer the swap so I could change the pan gasket without pulling the motor...

Warming up an old topic. I have dreamed of a 500 inch Cadillac in my 50 Chevy. Talk about torque...

I don't know if you'all have seen this project before but check this out:
\'56 GMC Northstar project

I put one in my bed. i got it all the way home with no problem. sold it to another fool the next day.

too much weight, too much power, lots of trouble. why not a early chevy v8 screamer.

I would go with a lt1 or ls1. easy bolt in and everything is avalible for them. I think I have 2500.00 in mine all together. The motor and trans were off e-bay harness and everything .

check out my pics.

Agree with above money wise 350.... 383 a little more....327 .......Nice.....your choice.....Good luck with your decision

Dan

Hot Rod Dad;
I'm running a Pontiac 400 hooked up to my original SM420 in my '57 GMC. Not too hard to do. Just set it up like you would for a car,only drill out the lower tranny bolt holes in your BOP bellhousing and bolt the bellhousing to the tranny before you install the engine.Cut a plate big enough to reach almost to the stock crossmember where the original bellhousing was,Cut the center hole and drill your tranny mounting holes so it can fit between the tranny and the bellhousing,make a couple of angle brackets and fit them to the crossmember mounts. You can either bolt or weld them to your plate.You might have to build a piece of linkage to connect your clutch-I did,because my release fork was toast and I couldn't find a replacement on a Sunday,and had to drive to work the following Monday,so I used a clutch fork from a Camaro.If you use the old style iron fork you can use the stock linkage.
Frank50;
Same set up as the Pontiac 400,but you'll have to pull the crank and have the end drilled for a pilot bushing.You might end up having your flywheel balanced,I don't remember if the Caddy engines are internally balanced.
Speed

I'm thinking of doing an LT1...It's RWD so no converting and it's a vette engine. What not to like? Looks great and doesn't have a fan or waterpump out in front of the engine.

The long-term plan for my 59 Suburban includes a 75 Caddy 500 with a TH400 trans. It's already got a Dana 60 3/4 ton rear end, and I've got an early 80's 3/4 ton truck to use as a donor for 8-lug front suspension and disc brakes.
Jerry

i think the atlas straight six would be neat. used in the olds bravada. anyone ask you what you have you can say a straight six. when someone ask me i say a corvette engine because the orginal corvette used the 235. ron

Might as well toss in my $.03! "If you can think it...it CAN be done."

However, as the owner/builder of several rather radical BB trucks I think a potential builder should have a clear picture of what you will ultimately wind-up with. A lot of time and money in a vehicle that has some really limited use potential.

If you have an unlimited budget (yeah right!), the necessary equipment to fabricate all the hardware, the time to fit and refit and get it right, you may wind up with a "running hunk of plunder" that turns heads, but is it going to be something you actually want to drive? How can I ask this...because I've gone that route a number of times, and have figured out when it's all said and done, that BIG POWER isn't all it's cracked up to be. Unless you're willing to go all the way with the major systems, you're going to have a rocket that sucks gas, handles like a UPS truck, and spends more time in the shop than on the road.

I guess if that's what flips your skirt, it may be worth it but, if you're looking for something dependable to cruise and enjoy, you might be better served to choose a better matched setup. Case in point....I drive my little tweaked 6 banger Chevrolet everyday while my 1964 BBF "Lightening" is relegated to an occassional show or two. It's not a "brand thing"...just being practical! With fuel headed for $5.00/gallon all those horses under the hood may just be a drain on the ole wallet. Oh that's right, money is no object!!!!

Sure, you can build your machine any way you want, but if choose to go with big horsepower, you'd better take a much closer look at the "Big picture." The bucks/time/equipment necessary to make some of these "exotic" transplants might be better left to Jay Leno.

Maybe I'm just getting older....or maybe smarter!!!

Dave

I had to deep six my 216 from my '42 3/4 ton art deco.
I didn't want a V8 350, that's like way too much power for this old codger, then you need a transmission, torque converter, and a new rear axle. Replace the steering box and then I'd need new brakes all round to stop the beast. Yep about 10G straight up and then some.
So I picked up an '87 running Nissan Patrol 4WD wagon with a good 4.2 litre diesel, big six cylinder for $1600 drive away.
Looks like its going to fit, and I can use the gearbox, front and rear axles, suspension and wheels.
It just seems like a better deal.
The engine is about the same height and length as the original 216 and not quite as heavy.
I'm not decided yet whether to leave the front wheel drive transfer case disabled.
The five speed gearbox will come into the cab with the stick about the same place as the original.
The three layer radiator should cool the 4.2 engine OK.
Different strokes for different blokes.
An unexpected development, but these thngs are sent to try us.

Zacca
Australia.

Try getting your one-of-a-kind-money out of it when you want to sell it. It had better be one beautiful piece of art if you ever plan on selling it.

Here's a couple shots of a 51 GMC with a 500 Cadillac that has been trouble free for 25 years and a couple 100,000 miles. (wore out the first--a 472). Not a high winding engine but torque is awesome, speedo needle will make a dead even swing from zero to wherever you want to quit and could pull the tongue off a trailer I think. If you really featherfoot it you can click off 12-13 mpg. (scroll down to blue truck in first 2 pics) http://s32.photobucket.com/albums/d41/coilover/

coilover, what I love about hot rodders is the innovation. That 500 Cad surely is an engine bay full and the steering is the only one like it I've seen. Must work OK though. Worth a tech article on how to fix your steering after stuffing a giant oversize V8 under the hood. I'd love to see more pics of the steering modifications. Incidentally the 472 and 500 Cads are a pretty popular conversion in the 70s Chevy and GMC pickups where there is sufficient room if you're clever with the exhaust manifolds.
Jerry

If money and logic are not an option, why not a DD 6-71 T.

Then you'll only have to strengthen the snot out of the frame, put in a 2 ton front end, and find a Rockwell or Eaton rear. Oh yeah... you'll probably have to lengthen the body to accept this beast.

next time I do one of these I'll pick up a decomissioned police caprice and use almost everything- A/C, Engine, Harness, Computer, Fuel Injection, tranny, rear diff., sway bar, brake booster, master cylinder, etc... Hell, I'll probably use the seat belts too! I'll also slap in a Mustang II front suspension, rack and pinion, and be on my way. Used Caprice 2k-3k, M-II $1,500.

they put the starter under the intake on the northstar to lessen failures due to heat soak from the exhaust. supposedly, failures for the starter are much less common than for a sbc.

it would be a pain to replace if it went out though, but it is not like anybody here doesn't know how to spin a wrench...