The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop Once around the block

If when I push down on the brake pedal they are mooshy and almost to the floor board is that a good sign of air in the lines or needing to be bled?

TIA

Dennis, if you have done a brake job my experience is that is is not uncommon for the brake pedal to sometimes feel a little soft. Why I don't know but I've had it to happend. Usually a trip or two around the block and it they get better.

Now for the air.....If you have bled your brakes and have a firm peddle just let the truck sit for a few minutes. Then push on the peddle. If it goes lower than previouly it has air in them and needs bleeding....Plus, if it has air in the lines the pedal will usually "pump up" higher when you pump it a few times.

Theres all kind of ways to bleed the brakes but when by myself I put some brake fluid in a bottle. I use a an empty water bottle and drill a hole in the plastic top. Pour a some brake fluid in it, stick a piece of vacumn hose down in the bottle making sure its submerged in the fluid and attach the other end to the bleeder valve. Open the bleeder valve and gently pump the pedal. It will get all the air out. It is nice to have someone watch the bottle and let you know when all the bubbles have quit coming. Tighten it up and got to the next wheel. I just did this on a complete brake job I did on a friends 50 Ferd and the pedal is rock solid.
There is also differing opinions on which wheel to bleed first. I have always went to the one furtherest from the master cyl then the next fartherest.
Just be sure you do not let the master cyl run out of fluid as you will have to start all over again. It may be worth it to give it another good bleed job. Takes very little fluid....just e sure to pump enough to get any air out that may have been trapped back up the line somewhere.
Good luck and let us know how you come out.

Thanks for the tip Achipmunk. I was having the same problem myself.

Are these stock brakes? If so I'd check to see if your brakes are adjusted properly before you start the bleeding process. Jack up each wheel one at a time and run the adjuster out until the wheel locks up, then loosen until you hear a slight scraping sound. Do this on all 4 wheels, then if your pedal is still mushy and goes almost to the floor, start the bleeding process.

You can bleed brakes until your blue in the face but if those shoes aren't adjusted right, you'll be wasting time and brake fluid. Anyhoo, that's my .02 worth.

I was wondering if the brakes were adjusted properly. I talked with the guy at Just Brakes. He said they could adjust them properly for $99. I wonder if that is the ticket?

Hell no, don't take it to Just Brakes. You can adjust them yourself. It is a simple procedure and takes less than 5 minutes a wheel.

Besides that, if Just Brakes gets ahold of your truck they'll find all kinds of stuff that is dangerously unsafe and recommend you don't even drive it home. But they can fix it.

I agree! Why pay someone to do something you can do yourself? Unless you are independly wealthy, in that case do what you want to do.

I just thought that getting the professionals to do it would be the safest.

Now, I think it is better to do what Cletis and Mobileortho recommended and save the money to put toward a booster. I am not sure if it would be best to go with the firewall model or under the floor. I guess one sticks out into the engine compartment and the other would require floor modification to get to the master cylinder. Is that correct? Which one have you guys done? Any pictures? Thanks

Hi Dennis...I'm not sure about the TF series trucks but on an A.D. if you fit the under floor unit,you do have to modify the floor to access the m/c.(sorry I don't have pics,I've still to do this mod!) Only problem I've noticed is... it's under the seat frame on mine!
Certainly this does give you a cleaner firewall but it doesn't look too out of place in the engine compartment.
If you choose the firewall set-up you MUST reinforce the bulkhead though!
Jock.

I always thought this site was FOR do-it-yourselfers.
I can't do everything on my truck, but 75% probably.

Dennis,
As stated having the brake shoes adjusted properly makes a the difference between steppin on a tomato or steppin on a firm mellon....lol
Tim

gazim - don't worry about me. I am a do-it-yourselfer. Thanks for your concern. I look for safety. Both, others and my family/passengers.

In this case I was questioning my ability to replace, rebuild, or adjust the brakes correctly. I have heard/read to raise the wheel, adjust the brake cylinder until it barely touches and then either click it back so it does not touch - or is it 7 clicks? I am unclear which is correct. I am asking for anyones experience or advice.

Otherwise. I would beleive that it would be better to have a professional do it.

I have a truck in the original shape. It is heavy and stops under the power of the original designed 4 drum brakes. It will spend much of its use in Dallas and then in Los Angeles. I do understand that disc brakes may be much better or as coil put it - with the power booster and 4 drum brakes. I would also like to look into what Cletis did. Putting on a two cylinder master cylinder. I wonder if any of the venders have a kit with the bracket and cylinder. Then all I would have to do is plumb it up. And what would be the best plumbing way?

What have others found out about this?

I am sorry if this thread offends anyone. I am doing the best that I know how. I would like to do the best I can with the time I have and ensure safety to all.

Thanks again.

Hey Dennis; Yes, the 7-click thing comes right out of the shop manual, the 'bolters Bible. But (you knew that was coming, right?) if you don't first run the adjusters out until the wheel grabs, you don't know if the shoe assembly is centered on the backing plates so anything else you do could possibly be off. I've adjusted my '53 by first running the adjusters out until the wheel is tight, then backed off until the wheel turns freely, but you can still hear a slight scraping sound. Not according to "the book" but was taught to me by my uncle, a Chevrolet mechanic. I had the same symptoms as you describe when I first got the truck home, but now after adjusting the brakes I have a firm pedal and I can make those new radials sing out if I need to.

Dennis, you may want to read the "firewall brake mounted assembly" post in this forum. Lots been said there about how/where to put the m/c and booster.
For me persoanlly I like them under the floorboard. I put it under the floorboard on my 37 and the firewall looks neat and clean. (but there is also more room under the hood of an AD)

I contacted PirateJack up in Asheville and have a floor mounted system on order. Nice folks from my conversation with them. They are also just up the road from me. I actually received one of their catalogs today. I get the booster....which is built right there in Asheville, N.C., the m/c, all the brackets to attach to chassis and also the pedal assembly.....$199. About as good as it gets. Check out there web site.

On the brake adjustment be constantly turning the wheel as you tighten it up so you know immediately when it locks up. For me 6 clicks did the trick. Wheel has just a bit of drag to it but not real hard to turn.
Sometime I just spin the tire as hard as I can and count how many times the valve stem goes around. Not a true indicator but it will tell you right quick if your off on the "clicks"! (meaning if one wheel seems to be alot tighter than the other)
And above all else...just use eome good common sense which will tell you the guy was going to take you for a ride at 99 bucks to adjust them!!!

I always thought it was adjust it til the wheel won't turn anymore, then back it off 7 clicks???

Thanks to all.

I was taught the slight rub method years ago, too. But I thought that I have been reading (here) about how this rubbing would heat up the drums and could cause ineffective brakes or failure. I am over sensitive of hurting a honda driver.

Gazim. Thanks. I always wondered about that '7 click back' comment in the manual. Yeah Waldo, that is where that came from.

Alvin. What is the difference between upgrading my brake system with a duel cylinder master cylinder and putting the master cylinder with the power booster? I thought Cletis just put the duel cylinder on his. Maybe, that would keep the cab floor opening in the same/right place.

Thanks again. This is a great help to me.

I am going to go with the kit from classicparts.com you can check it out here. It is a mostly bolt on application with some brake line work near the original MC location, and the addition of a vacuum line from the intake manifold to the booster.

You can check it out here. http://www.classicparts.com/1947-54-Power-Brake-Booster-Conversion-Drum_Drum/productinfo/71-903/

I just replaced all my brake shoes and wheel cylinders and adjusted the shoes using the "tighten until they drag and back them off a few clicks method" and the are spot on now! The pedal feel is great... when the resivior is full. Too bad my MC leaks slowly- Thus the new power MC setup needed.

gazim: I guess I just try to idiot proof stuff. I watch a friend of mine adjust them once and I think the wheel locked down about 4 or five clicks before he stopped turning. So, when he backed off 6 or 7 clicks one wheel was waaay tighter than the other!! Am I making any sense here??

"I thought Cletis just put the duel cylinder on his. Maybe, that would keep the cab floor opening in the same/right place."

I used the dual cylinder w/o power on my '56. The hole in the floor doesn't allow access to the reservoir. I used the little bottle that came with the CPP kit I bought for the '54. To check the fluid you have to climb under the truck with an inspection mirror. This isn't something you have to do everyday or even every month so I'm not concerned.

Bigblue29, the kit you linked to is most likely the CPP kit I used on the '54. As you say it is a mostly bolt on job but I ran into a few problems. You can check them out here. Click on "Front Suspension".