The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts Shifting a Brownie Transmission

Hi all,

I FINALLY found a Brown-Lipe transmission for my 1.5 ton 1950 chevy truck. One idea I was throwing around was to use a set of solenoids to electrically shift the brownie from drive to overdrive via a switch on the shift knob, much like an electric 2-speed setup.

Then I got to thinking,,, that brownie probably isn't synchronized. Does anyone know how difficult it is to use a brownie as a gear-splitter,, i.e. shift between hi and low between each gear? Does it require that you get the rpm's right before shifting to prevent scratching the gears, or will it shift fine as long as the clutch is disengaged?

I'd hate to install an electric shift setup only to find out the gears scratch each time I try to shift the brownie.

What are your experiences?

Thanks!

Jon,

I drove a fuel truck for a number of years which was equipped with a brownie. I don't recall that the brownie was synchronized. The main box AND brownie required double-clutching.

Even if this were not the case, I think a electrical actuation of the box would be much to instantaneous and severe for it to work properly.

A Eaton two speed rear end does have a electric motor, but it's speed is reduced through a screw drive setup, and that in turn only winds up the spring that actually does the shifting.

Having that second stick poking up through the floor boards is the true mark of a double-clutching Mo-Fo...I would keep the stick and utilize ALL the gears the brownie had to offer.

Stuart

I learned to drive big rigs on a B-73 Mack with a Tri-Plex transmission, which is a 5-speed main box and a 3-speed Brownie in a common case, with two shifters. Once the rig is rolling, NO clutch action is required, on either the main or the Brownie, just a good ear and/or an eye on the tachometer. Once the max engine speed is reached in any gear, just ease off the throttle a little, slip the box out of gear, and let the RPM drop until the shifter will fall into the next gear without grinding. On a downshift, reverse the process- - - -let up on the gas, slip into neutral, goose the gas, and slip into the next lower gear. Here's the shift sequence for a 5-X-3 main/Brownie shift pattern:

Main in 1st., Brownie in underdrive- - - -accelerate- - - -
Ease off throttle, slip Brownie into neutral- - -
Drop RPM, slide Brownie into direct drive- - - -accelerate- - -
Ease off throttle- - - -slip Brownie into neutral- - -
Drop RPM, Brownie into Overdrive- - - -accelerate- - -

Now comes the fun part!
(This works best as a 2-handed shift)
Ease off gas- - - -slip main trans into neutral- - - -
Shift Brownie into underdrive with main in neutral- - - -
Drop RPM, shift main into second- - - -repeat as necessary!

For the first few dozen shifts, you'll wish you had rubber-toothed gears, but you'll get the timing down pat eventually! Once you get the hang of a particular engine/trans/RPM split, no-clutch shifting will become second nature! Clutches are for starting and stopping; use while moving on a big rig is optional!
Jerry

My thoughts were that with the gears in my truck, the workload I intend to use it for, and the torque band of my engine, the low range of the Brownie would be of seldom use.

That being said, any mechanism that can provide a simple forward-aft input to the drive/overdrive input on the Brownie would be sufficient.

In order to make life easier and eliminate the need to shift two sticks, what I had envisioned was a shift knob that had a mechanical lever toggle on it to push and pull a cable that connects to the drive/overdrive input to the Brownie. Essentially a lift of a fore-finger paddle to shift one way, and a push of a thumb paddle to shift the other way.

Obviously it would take a pretty stout tug of the fingers to overcome the input force required to shift the Brownie. This was my reasoning for wanting to use 'helper' solenoids. Since solenoids aren't a direct mechanical couple (just magnetic force pushing a rod) like a gear reduced linear actuator, as long as I didn't size them too large,, all they would be doing is providing a helping push to my finger inputs. Also, since there's no mechanical couple, if I was scratching the gears, all I'd have to do is let off the button and the push force from the solenoid would go away.

To get the electrical input to the helper solenoids at the right time, I'd simply place the buttons on the respective finger paddles such that when I push the thumb paddle with my thumb, I'm also pushing the button for the assisting helper solenoid. Likewise, when I'm pulling the other paddle with my fingers, I'd also be depressing the button for that helper solenoid.

I think it would still work without synchronization, but I like the idea of putting a spring in series such that the spring is what moves the input to the Brownie.

As an additional safety to ensure I didn't inadverdently push a button and activate a helper solenoid when you didn't want to, I could put a switch on the clutch pedal (like a brake light switch on a brake pedal) that would have to be depressed for power to go to the shift buttons.

It's almost too easy......

I could not shift my brownie without terrible crashing!!! I just left it in high gear.This is the first big truck I have ever had. One day an Uncle of mine stopped by, little did I know in the 50's and 60's he drove big rigs. He liked my truck and spotted the second gear shifter, I told him about my brownie troubles - I could not shift it while moving at all. He got a big grin and said lets go for a drive.
Just as Hotrod said, not only could he shift it. He was shifting it with no clutch! and he was shifting it far better than I could with the clutch. For him it was all but effort less - I though could not get the nack of it, like I said - this is the biggest thing I have ever owned :-)

jgetti, the Fuller Roadrangers like the 10-speed and 13-speed models use an air-shifted auxiliary section that's basically an over/under box, but they have synchronizers. The shifting effort on your Brownie will be far too stiff for just finger pressure, and a solenoid assist will just cause lots of clashing unless the gear speed is exactly matched. Just get used to the idea of shifting with both hands! It's easy once you get the hang of it!
Jerry

Jerry,

Some Fuller Road Ranger's have synchronizers?

Bill

No, all Roadrangers have synchronizers, at least the ones I worked on back in the 70's and 80's. The air-shifted auxiliary section has big brass synch rings that get clogged up with carbon deposits if the wrong lubricant is used in the transmission. If it's got hypoid gear lube in it instead of straight mineral oil, the synchronizers turn a deep black and the grooves in the synchro rings fill up with hard, black crud. Shortly after, it starts getting really slow to shift with the air system. I don't remember if the basic 5-speed main box is synchronized or not.
Jerry

Jerry,

I'm not familiar with the inside mechanics of them, but the 5-Speed GMC's I used to drive could be shifted without the revs just perfect, unless they were a little old and needed some help, but the Road Rangers I have driven needed to be shifted just about perfect, especially downshifting and very simialr to the two-stick Brownie shifting we are talking about above.

One driver who was used to the sychronized 5-Speeds, started driving the non-sychronized 10-Speed we had. He got the rythem of up shifting real good, but I didn't realize it till I rode with him one day, he couldn't downshift it. If luck was with him and he kept getting red lights where he would come to a full stop, he was alright, but one day we took a corner and he was in about 9th and he needed to get back to about 5th and he didn't. We lugged along in 9th as I was panicing. I used to think to myself, one day this crankshaft is going to end up on the front seat. I went to look at the truck, which was for sale a few years later, and there was the crank, on the front seat.

Bill

About Roadrangers,
They like straight engine oil, usually 50 weight, but may vary depending on temperature and use, many new ones like synthetic oil. They don't like mineral gear oil, at least it's not what the manuals call for.

The range (air shifted part) is always synchronized.
The front 5 speed box is never synchronized.

Synchronized transmissions should really be clutched to shift (saves the syncros, if not clutched they work really hard trying to match speeds, but are fighting the engine speed and wear out really quick), a non synchronized box can be shifted without the clutch (match speeds while in neutral with the accelerator pedal).
The Roadranger can be shifted without clutching because the range will only shift when the front box is in neutral, so the synchronizers work fine, for all they know the clutch is in, because being in neutral in the font box accomplishes the same thing.

About the shifter-less auxiliary transmission,
I don't know of any auxiliary transmissions that are synchronized.
I don't think the electric solenoid is a good idea, to harsh unless some sort of spring is used.
Spicer made air shifted auxiliary transmissions in several models.
I have a few of the manuals for the air shifted ones, but have never seen a real one in person. Basically they put air cylinders on the shift rails. Because air compresses it acts as a sort of spring and is not as harsh as a solenoid would be. I would imagine that you still need to be really good to shift it, because you have no feel, and once you tell it to shift it will try it's best, grinding and all.

Another thing to consider is not getting it in two gears at once. So if you shift one rail, the other must be in neutral, and if not, and you manage to get two shift rails in gear at once, you strip teeth off the ring gear, twist a driveshaft, wring the center out of the clutch, and or other nasty things.

All factory air shifted transmissions have this figured out somehow or another...

Grigg

Good info, Grigg!
Since I quit working for a living and started teaching school, I've forgotten a lot of the details I once knew about working on big rigs. The 4X4 transmission setups I used to work on for a sand & gravel hauler in central California had air shifters on the Brownie, and they worked pretty good unless a driver lost count and forgot which gear he was in. Those things had 4-speed main boxes with a regular stick shift, and a 4-position air splitter on the shift knob for shifting the Brownie. I believe the air cylinder tensioned a spring, and when the driver eased off the power, the Brownie would shift up or down, similar to a 2-speed rear axle.

There was only about 200 RPM between gears, so it was essential for a driver to know which gear he was using at all times. The Cummins and Detroit engines we ran in the late 1970's only had an operating range from 1750 to 2150 RPM, so a 200-RPM spread between gears allowed a driver to stay in either the high speed max horsepower range, or the low-speed max torque band by picking out the right gear. A few of the really big rigs or the ones used off road had 5X4 setups. Lots of fun with those!
Jerry

I use to drive a Kenworth lowboy tractor with a 5&4 I really liked that truck but I couldn't tell you how to shift it I would have to show you, one of those things I did without giving it any thought just did it.

Until yesterday I would have agreed with you. I am now the proud owner of a "Mitchell Gear Splitter"...a very cool direct/over fully synchronized auxiliary transmission.


Stuart

OK Stuart,
let me revise that,
I don't know of any older multiple speed auxiliary transmissions that are synchronized.

Some newer synchronized ones that are just a direct and overdrive (some available as direct and under drive)
http://www.gearvendors.com/
http://www.usgear.com/
http://www.advanceadapters.com/acrobat/saturn.pdf (may not be synchronized?)
http://www.high-impact.net/transmission_and_gear/rangeroverdrive.htm

I look at the above units as simply an overdrive, and most of them are just that, essentially just the OD unit from an automatic transmission made modular to be used behind different transmissions.

As far as the "true" auxiliary transmissions available, most older, (and some new ones that are way to big or expensive to consider), I still know of none that are synchronized.

Grigg

Grigg,

I agree...I was just using your statement as a chance to preview my new 'find'.


Stuart

Stuart,
About your new find, I have never heard of one, and just did some searching, very few results.

Seems they were made in CA not to long ago, and those who have them like them.

I could not find any pictures or info on the Mitchell unit.

What can you tell us about it?

Grigg

Grigg,

They were made in Healdsburg, CA years ago by a family owned company. They're a cast aluminum, finned stylish box, very light and functional.

My box is direct and 0.29:1 overdrive and rated for 20,000 GVW (?).

This company still makes overdrive units, but now they focus on the "antique car" market....Model A's. They have relocated to Colusa, CA.

I have enclosed a link to their new product. These gear splitters are few and far between, but I think it's because folks who have them keep them.

As you mentioned in your post above, this isn't really a auxiliary transmission, but merely a OD unit.

http://www.model-a-autoparts.co.nz/overdriver.php

Stuart

There have been a couple of threads here about the possibility of using a 3-speed trans, mounted backwards, to fabricate a direct/over box. While it would involve a fair amount of machining, and probably the fabrication of a crossmember or two to mount it, I'm thinking about adding that idea to the "to do" list at sometime in the future. Yes, driving the 2nd. gear and cluster gear backward to their normal rotation might create noise and/or wear issues, but it just might work. Anybody want to comment on the feasibility of something like that?
Jerry

There was somebody on the Big Mack Trucks forums a while back that said his shop had converted several Brown-Lipes to electric shift. I can't imagine how it could be done,but might be worth doing a search there...
Speed

About turning a 3 speed around backward, or any transmission for that matter. I would be hesitant if it had helical gears, because helical gears by design make some end thrust, and this thrust is handled in the design of the bearings or thrust washers in the transmission. If the transmission turns the opposite from designed way, then those plans for thrust management go out the window.
If the transmission has straight cut gears it may work, as there is essentially no end thrust created by the gears.

I did look into using a Spicer 3053a military surplus 5 speed OD transmission as an auxiliary (installed the normal way). I have not done it, and don't plan to, but did come up with a plan to make it work, other than shift linkage and mounts one piece would need to be machined, and not terribly difficult. The shift linkage should work from a Spicer in a COE application, even from a 10 speed or larger, as the shift towers are supposed to be the same.

The plan I had could work for other transmissions as well, but a large input shaft would be good, 1.5", 1.75", or 2" would be even better.

Grigg

My truck driving teeth were cut on a Mack B-61's with Duplex and TriPlex trannys. After that I drove dumptrucks with 5+4 for some real gearjammin' fun.When I bought my own tractors I mades sure the had RoadRangers in them. I loved that old RTO 913 behind the Jimmy 318. Just slam the door on your finger and get good an PO'd then climb in and put both feet flat on the floor. Those double breasted Yamaha's needed every gear you could throw at them.

In 1982 I got a new Peter bilt. Heh, heh. It was to be a fire-breathing 3408 Cat powered COE train tractor, and the Manufacturer's rep told me that the only choice of transmission which could handle the torque of the big kitty would be the Spicer 20-speed. I hated that transmission roundly. Every air shift was like hitting the box with a big hammer. No way to smooth them at all, and the thrust washers in the transmission turned to tofu by 80,000 miles. They were repaired under warranty, but in another 80K they did it again. We put in harder washers. Then, at 240K when they did it again, we binned that stupid thing and put in a Fuller 12515 which lasted at least another 300K without any trouble until we replaced the tractor. By that time the14-6-18-speed had been developed and was in production.

I drove an old international emeryville for awhile that was a 5 x3.. a 3 speed rear end. Havent heard anyone mention that yet?
A 3 speed rearend is a tandem axle with two two speed rear ends. Low is both axles in low. 2nd is one in low the other in hi, and the powerdivider equaling them. and 3rd is both rear ends in hi.. worked pretty good...

Loving this thread.

Can some one tell me if the Spicer 7041 is a synchronized auxiliary tranny? I was thinking it was (based upon how I'd seen it shifted - clutchless) but I'm not sure now based upon some statements on this thread.

I've got one sitting at home unused, and may have to drain the oil and take a look to satisfy my curiosity if no one here can tell me.

Thanks.

7041 is unsynchronized

It's a bad idea to shift a synchronized transmission without using the clutch.

Unsynchronized transmissions can often be shifted clutch-less without problems.

Grigg

fatweed my boss sent one of those emoryvilles out for scrap about 15 years ago. it had a 220 cummins with the 5 speed and three speed rear always wondered about them thanks for the reminder i'll have to ask why they parked it anyway

Fatweed, I drove a 68 Freightliner with a 1674 Cat (270 HP) and an Eaton 15-speed. That's the 5X3 you're talking about. There was a definite technique to shifting that one, as any mistake in the power on/off and splitter switch movement would result in a false neutral, lots of grinding, and a SLAM into gear. My co-driver coasted about a hundred yards down the Grapevine hill in California before that rig found a gear, and about a week later it stranded me in downtown Salinas with a sheared-off input shaft to the rear end!

I was over a hundred miles from the company shop, so the boss loaded up the tool box in his pickup, and we overhauled the power divider in the middle of a graveled parking lot! No fun at all!
Jerry

[censored] drippin in my face... LOL..thats when i said thats enough... and changed careers....LOL