The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Driveline Yet another brake bleeding question

Hi guys,
I'm trying to bleed the brakes on my 53. I just installed a rebuilt master cylinder and all new brake lines. I didn’t bench bleed the master while if was out of the truck but I did run a line off the back and back into the cylinder well after I bolted it to the truck. It seems to be pushing fluid fine with no air bubbles.
I started at the drivers side rear wheel and loosened the bleeder screw (5/16 bolt) and had my wife push the pedal to the floor. tightened screw, let up on the pedal...repeat..and repeat...and repeat. The fluid did drop in the master cylinder at first and then stopped dropping. After thirty or so repeats I had my ever patient wife stop..at which point the fluid backed up into the master cylinder. I tried moving to the shortest line on the drivers front thinking that I’d me most likely to see fluid there if there was any moving through the lines… Nothing. What am I doing wrong? Am I too impatient or am I sucking air into the system somewhere? I'm thinking of buying the vacuum pump...maybe that will work?
-Chris

It's normal for the fluid to back up into the master until all of the air is out. You are compressing the air somewhere in the system and that's what's pushing the fluid back. I keep going around the truck several times to get the air out. There's no real good was to get the air out when the master is as low as the bleeders (can't gravity bleed). Also, make sure the pedal rod is adjusted properly or you may never feel a good pedal,
Scott

I think you do the furthest away first.

I think you're right arnswine, On the 53 the line runs from the master across the crossbeam, then back to the passenger rear, and finally across to the drivers side rear. I then tried the drivers side front because its the shortest line, and I thought that even if I were sucking air somewhere in the system I would at least see fluid there..but I didn’t.
So then do you guys think it’s conceivable that I could bleed air from all the wheels multiple times before seeing any fluid? I guess I had expected that the fluid level within the master would drop fairly rapidly (20-30 pumps of the brake) and that the air would be more easily forced out. Just dont know how long to battle it before concluding that its not working and looking for another solution.
Thanks for your comments by the way..
-Chris

Chris,

My poor wife can certainly relate to your wife’s pedal pushing dilemma. Early in our marriage we had a succession of VW's. My wife must have done the pumped the brake pedal dance on over two dozen occasions. My experience is that even if you bench bleed a master cylinder you still may have to try for several minutes of pedal pushing to get the master cylinder to a point that it has enough pressure to properly bleed the brakes.

My world famous method of bleeding brakes is to have the wife pump the pedal three times and hold the pedal to the floor board. She then yells go and I open the right rear slave cylinder with a 10mm or 3/8 inch wrench and let some air and fluid out. (I connect a clear tube to the bleeder and submerge the other end in about an inch of brake fluid in a one liter clear bottle.) I then close the bleeder before air or fluid moves back into the slave cylinder. I keep repeating the process until the fluid runs clear and air bubble free. I then move to the left rear, right front and finally left front. If the breaks are still spongy, I do the whole job again. (With the appropriate complaining from my wife.)

Another observation: I seem to only have to bleed brakes when it is raining or is 10 degrees outside. (It's nice to finally have a garage after 20 years in the Army.)

This is probably unnessessary but your posting didn't make it real clear. Is your wife pumping the brakes while all of the bleeders are shut, pumping several strokes then holding the pedal down while you open the bleeder, let any pressure out, then close the bleeder BEFORE she lets off of the pedal? If you are holding the bleeder open while she pumps the pedal all you are doing is letting air back into the system every time she lets off the pedal.

Patience!... With all new lines it takes some cordinated effort. I used a Mighty-Vac bleeder and it did make it easy. Try having her pump slowly until she feels some resistance, then hold the pedal down while you crack the bleeder. Leave the bleeder open for a several seconds, then close it before letting off on the pedal. Then check the resevoir each time. The only thing about a vacume bleeder is they sometimes suck air around the bleeder screw, making you think you still have air in the system. Good luck.

Tiny,

Sorry I didn't make it clear. My wife pumps three times before I crack open the bleeder valve. I close the valve quickly before my wife looses pressure on the brake pedal. (Repeat as necessary to get the air out.)

I also neglected to say that our little break dance, (pun intended), is interrupted every 10 repetitions to make sure I haven't drained the master cylinder's reservoir. If you do suck it dry, you have to start all over again. (Been there, etc...)

I would check that brake pedal to master cylinder push rod adjustment.Also be sure that rod is seated correctly in the master cylinder.
Manual says to bleed in the following order,passenger rear,drivers rear,passenger front and finally drivers front,making sure the master cylinder has ample fluid.Very important to repeat bleeding in the same order until you get a clear stream of fluid flowing from each bleeder.Also be sure the bleeder is opened enough to get a good stream of fluid.
Eliminate the wife by having a extra can of fluid and a piece of rubber hose that fits tightly over the bleeder,open bleeder place hose TIGHTLY over the bleeder and the other end into the can of fluid making sure the end is submersed below fluid level, pump brake pedal several full strokes, remove hose from bleeder and move to next wheel cylinder repeating all the way around truck, at this point you should have a good "pedal" and repeat if needed to get full pedal.Wife can stand of in the background and supervise.
Hobert

this oughta help

http://www.classicperform.com/TechBook/BrakeBleed.htm


GO STEELERS

Thanks guys,
I hated to bring up a much discussed topic again, but sometimes the devil is in the details. Pump the brake MULTIPLE times before releasing the bleeder. sigh...
I'm sure my wife will appreciate the guidance in that it means less "dancing" for her. She tolerates my old truck enthusiasm, but only for so long. Its still getting dark too darn early here in Washington to do much without three drop lights, tarps spread on the ground, and a reasonable amount of frustration. I think I'll wait for the weekend to give it another shot. I'll keep you posted...
-Chris.

Speed bleeders.....in the "HELP" rack at your local parts house! Basically foolproof! Replaces the stock bleeder fittings, crack the furtherest cylinder from the master and SLOWLY pump...fluid and air are captured by a hose into a jar. Work your way back to closest wheel. Saves a lot of leg work, time on the floor and wear and tear on the little women!!! Package contains two bleeders @ $9.00/card. Hope this helps! Just my $.03!

Speed bleeders eh? I'll look for them.
My wife may need to add you guys to her Christmas card list.

Just one last thank you to all those that provided guidance and opinion regarding the bleeding process, as well as feedback on the right master cylinder rebuilt choice (another thread). I ended up going with white post restorations and they did a beautiful job. My 53 is back on the road as of today, no leaks (yet) and good pedal pressure.
Now if I can just get the heater working...

-Chris

Go Hawks!!

right rear,left rear,right front,then left front.proper sequence for bleeding.

use a small hose from bleeder into a container with some fluid in bottom have hose in the fluid in the container and you can bleed brakes yourself as no air will enter thru the bleeder when pedal is released....

Chris,I'm going to stay out of this Brake Bleeding Thing.Way too much pumping for me.Glad to hear White Post came through for you!Great folks to deal with.

Just a word about speed bleeders. I went to every parts store in my area asking if they had them. The answer was always no, they never heard of anything like that. I didn't realize they would be in the help section, but finally out of desperation I looked there one day, and every store in town has them. I bought a set, haven't used then yet, so don't know if they work. Allen

Sounds like you got the job done- If not, I suggest a couple of options:

A phoenix bleeder- They reverse bleed your brakes and work very well and very quickly- Do a google search and check 'em out.

If that doesn't work, and you have a compressor, you've got a couple of choices:

Harbor frieght has a MityVac brake bleeding system- You hook up the Ortho sprayer looking thing to the air and to a bleeder screw, press on the trigger and it sucks fluid through your lines-

Can't find one of those? Make one yourself. You need some vaccum line, an 'a/c vaccum evacuator' (the little red box for about $10), two vaccum hose fittings and a jar with a metal lid. Put the two fittings through the lid. On the end of one inside the jar stick a piece of vaccum hose. Hook up one fitting to the red vaccum box, hook up the other fitting to your brakes, put a smidge of fluid in your jar, turn on the air and you are on your way!

One thing that always helps me when bleeding brakes is to pump the pedal several full strokes and then just "tickle" the pedal down a little bit. Look for the tiny bubbles to come from the bottom of the resevour. Then pump again and repeat. If you just start the stroke of the pedal real slow, it will let the air out.

get one of these...power bleeders are the easiest, best and quickest way..

[img]http://www.trackhaus.com/images_templ/home_images/hmtbl_1_item.gif[/img]

Thought I'd add my $.03 again. I've got a pressure bleeder setup and a vacuum bleeder gathering dust on the shelf because I invested in a couple cards of SPEED BLEEDERS in the "HELP" section of most auto parts suppliers.

The vacuum bleeders suck air around the bleeder screw and the pressure bleeder makes a mess when you remove the cap to add fluid. BTW...a drop of brake fluid on a fender top will mess up your paint real fast. The speed bleeders have a coating to seal between the cylinder and the bleeder....I used 12 pumps on each wheel to completely fill and evacuate the new system....1/4" hose into peanut butter catch can. If it got any easier than this it would be a sin. SPEED BLEEDERS come 2 to a card for $9.00 and there are only 2 choices...coarse or fine thread and the fine thread works on the Chevy bolts.

However, if you like crawling around on the ground and taking an hour to "probably" properly bleed the brakes than you can ignore this post.

Not really sure what type of power bleeder you're using, but with mine, there is no need to remove the cap and add fluid. The fluid is in the bleeder and pumped into the master cylinder through the cap of the power bleeder. Besides doing an excellent job of bleeding, you can flush the entire system.

On a side note, speed bleeders may work well but I think you need to keep the container used to capture the fluid above the bleeder for them to work correctly.

I suppose that's one of the reasons they make different kinds of bleeders and methods, we all have preferences..