The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Cam Shaft Breakin Question

The machine shop is nearly done reconditioning my engine parts. I will be installing a new camshaft and will need to do a proper breakin on it upon first startup.

What is considered the proper RPM for breaking in a cam on a 1958 Chevy 261?

I never liked the idea or reving a new engine too much. I'm actually quite nervious about this.

Thanks inadvance
Walt Williams
La Lerkin, Ut

Usually your cam manufacturer provides break in info with the cam. That being said, Pre oil prime the engine, run the engine for 15-20 minutes while alternating up and down the rpms to a max of 2500 rpm. But, check your cam info first.

the cam manufacturers recommend anywhere from 1500-2500 RPM. for 20 minutes. then immediately change the oil, at least that is what all that I have read say. I can't bring myself to consider 2500 rpm, a high speed. It will be fine. That's how you do it. Just go to any cam manufacturers website and they will have nearly identical procedures for initial start up. For simplicity's sake, I'll say crane cams. However they all have the same information. Read up on it even before you start reassembly, you don't want to turn the cam under spring pressure even by hand. You only have to make one single solitary engine revolution under valve spring pressure before you start it.

Don't forget to add a couple of bottle of EOS to the oil before you fire it up.

I have to admit that the scariest thing i have done is the start up and break in of an expensive rebuild that I assembled myself. I let it sit for a week and a half before I could get up the nerve to fire it up. It was a 235 with hydraulic lifters, and man did it clatter when I fired it up and kept it at between 1500 and 2500 rpms. It quieted down pretty quickly. Everything worked out fine. You just don't have any choice but to run it at that rpm for twenty minutes if you want the the new cam to survive.

RPM is the only think that oils the cam lobes, you must run them in the 1500 to 2000 rpm range. Just set the high idle slightly higher then normal.

Brad Penn makes a great break-in oil, they deliver to your door if ordered off the web. OIl Warehouse sells it
( http://theoilwarehouse.com/page/1i7qh/Products.html ) Com Cams also makes good break-in oil which can be purchased local.

Do a search here or on the web before starting the rebuild. Use cam grease, not oil to pre-lube the cam, it won't run off the lobes over night!

Here is some good oil information.
http://www.hotrodandrestoration.com..._source=Email&utm_medium=Enewsletter

Since you are nervous about starting the engine, that means you will pay attention and do it the right way and not get in a rush.

Joe

Unless you are running a very aggressive cam profile you do not NEED any additives. The assembly lube will protect the lobes till splash lube keeps them wet.

The myth that you need additional ZDDP additives in a stock motor is just that... a myth born of misinformation.

ZDDP was INITIALLY added to oil to increase wear protection, but it was drastically increased to combat oil oxidation as it was the cheapest additive to do the job. Not for wear protection.

You don't need $100 worth of break in oil that you will throw away after 30 minutes. A good API Spec oil and the initial assembly lube coating are all that you need.

It won't hurt to throw away $100 in oil.. but its not doing much for a STOCK motor.

Pfarber,
"Splash lube?" The cam is supplied with oil through passages in the block. While we are on the topic of "splash engines", are the early 235 and 216's splash engines? I live in the South and realize the importance of learning the local slang in order to survive. The rod journals are lubed via dippers in troughs at low idle, and via pressurized nozzles aimed at the dippers at higher rpm's. Is there another example of a "splash engine" that someone can tell us about? Or should I just shut up?

Cam bearings are pressure lubed. Cam lobes are not directly lubed.

OP says he has a 58 motor.. that is a full pressure (rod and main bearing) system.

Other than seepage from around the cam tappet, gravity from oil draining down the block, and splash lube the cam lobes are not directly lubricated. So it is in effect a 'splash lube' system for the camshaft. Splash lube is not dedicated to only mean the dippers used in low RPM settings... any system can be splash lubed. My lathe is splash lubed. The tranny/transfer/differentials in my 42 ford, 43 chevvys and GMC are splash lubed. Lots of times manual transmissions will have special ledges cast into them do let oil drip or splash into needed areas.

If you're trying to by pithy, you're not.

You don't NEED ZDDP additives for a stock motor break in. Just like you don't need hardened valve seats.

Your turn.

Just thought of another.. the connecting rod has a small squirt hole to shoot lube onto the cylinder wall/piston. That's an example of splash lube, too.

I have a lot more examples... but the bottom line is that the cam lobes are splash lubed and running at 1500-2000 RPMs is the magic number to ensure enough oil gets thrown around to hit the lobes.

Really. That's how it works. They are splash lubed.

Thank you everyone for the input. I haven't performed a break in on a new cam before. I was always lucky enough to be able to reuse the cam that came with the engine. I will consult the information that came with the new cam. I haven't seen it yet as the machine shop still has the re-build kit and my castings. They are finishing up doing a total rebuild of the cylinder head. I am supposing it will all be ready by Monday.

Block bored .030, crank ground .030. All new hardened seats, guides, valves, and springs. Engine balanced to within a 1/100 of a gram. It should be one hell of an engine for my 54 3100.

Thanks
Walt Williams
La Verkin, UT

I'll listen to Patrick's advice,THANK-YOU!! They HIGHLY RECOMMEND ZDD additive,and HARDENED valve seats. I've done both,and continue to use ZDD and Valvoline VR racing 5W50,on EVERY oil change,and my engine is HAPPY HAPPy HAPPY!! Has been for the last 5-years!! And,NO,I'm not being "pithy",whatever that means.I change the oil myself,and doesn't cost more than $50.00.You're getting RIPPED!!

for the difference in price of a dedicated break in oil such as Brad Penn, ($5.49 qt) vs say havoline (4.99 qt) or Valvoline ($4.69 qt) I'd spend the extra $2-$5 ($100, where did that come from?) To make sure things go right during the start up of what I know to be a relatively large investment. It may or may not be NEEDED for a STOCK engine, but why take chances? I don't have the money to run engine after engine to failure and then do an autopsy to see if this is true. I can only follow the advice of every cam manufacturer in the world, as well as that of all the major engine builders. And this is all assuming you are actually running a stock cam... Another note, the cam assembly lube lasts one revolution, at least the magic goo from crane cams was wiped smooth clean in one single solitary revolution, I'm assuming there was a microscopic boundary layer, but I'm tellin ya it wasn't much. Thus the reason for not turning the engine with spring pressure on the cam more than the one single solitary revolution I have mentioned before.

People who sell $15/qt oil need to shovel all the manure they can. For a STOCK motor you don't need anything special. The oil in today's API oils has the same zinc levels as in the 50's when these motors rolled off the line.

Now, if you use aggressive lobe profiles, or high pressure springs then YES, you are going above the standard tolerances for any street motor and will need additional goo in the oil.

Not trying to change minds... just give information.

where did you see $15 quart oil? it cost $5.49 qt. It isn't zinc they are after it is the phosphorous, and it MIGHT be at the same levels, however the MAXIMUM allowed currently is indeed the same amount as found to be ADEQUATE back then, however there is no guarantee the oil companies are actually using the maximum amount allowed. Details are extremely important.

I don't know of any cam builder that does not recommend the ZDDP additive when you install a new cam and lifter set in an engine. There may be one out there, but I don't know which one it is.

I've put in a few new camshafts and the ones I have installed recommend the ZDDP during the break-in procedure and once the cam is broken-in you no longer have to keep adding it.

It doesn't cost $100.00 to do this, not any where close. So for reassurance your cam is going to be okay it's mighty cheap.

As to the splash oil diatribe, ...... maybe I better hush now.

We have have been around this block so many times now.

If you don't want to use additive, fine, do as you want, its your money.

Those of us who do build motors recommend additive, so do all cam makers, regardless of cam profile.

Cam lobes are splash oil, right off the crankshaft, no oil feed from the pump. Cam bearings and lifters use pressure feed oil, but not the lobes them self. RPM is the only way enough oil get where it needs to be.

From the link I posted above, Brad Penn break-in oil, $4.61 a quart plus shipping. Summit Racing, Comp Cams oil, $4.99 a quart plus shipping.

After its broke in, you can back off of the additive with a stock profile camshaft, but only after plenty of drive time. A high performance cam or heavy valve springs, you better stock up on quality race type oil.

Send me a e-mail or pm, I will give you my 2 cents worth. Be sure to search the back logs on this site, you should find plenty to read.

Joe

Splash Oil Diatribe:
Just to stoke the fire, a squit hole (spurt hole) to shoot oil on the cylinder wall is not an example of splash lube (splash oil lubrication). That "squirt hole" replaced one of the remaining splash lubrication areas in the low-pressure 216/235 engines.

Splash oil lubrication of the cam/lifter interface does seem to be.a correct description. However, the 1958 235/261 blocks were drilled for lubrication of the lifters (and the mechanical lifter design changed), might this be considered a non-splash lubrication path to the cam/lifter surface?

Nonethess:
The argument about the need for ZDDP during solid-lifter flat-tappet cam break-in is getting tiresome.

Read again Roy Rodgers first paragraph, above.

Can anyone find a cam manufacturer that states that ZDDP Is not recommended as a component in the solid-lifter flat-tappet cam break-in lubricant? If you can find one, please let us know if ZDDP (or a specifically-designated ZDDP substitute) is in that manufacturer's solid-lifter flat-tappet cam break-in lubricant?

There is no direct pressurized source of lube for the cam lobes. The LIFTERS... YES. But oil will follow the path of least resistance (around the lifter grove and up to the valve train) and you get basically a weeping action around the tappet bore.

Splash lube is any method of providing oil sans a gallery or dedicated feed path.

Cam manufactures sell additives.. OF COURSE THEY RECOMMEND $15/qt mystery goo. Saying that they recommend it is the biggest issue in a rational discussion... no one READS or RESEARCHES they simply buy something.

Here's the GM Crate motor break in procedure.. these are $3-5k motors:

http://paceperformance.com/p-3978-engine-start-up-procedure.html

Here's the money shot:

Quality 10W-30 or 10W-40 Oil is recommended for GM's Performance Crate Engines. Most Stock Factory replacement engines use either 5W-30 or 10W-30 oil.

NO MYSTERY GOO!!!!!!!! Use off the shelf oil for GM FACTORY CRATE ENGINES!

Why not demand GM EOS? Because you don't need it.

So, I have shown that GM crate engines do NOT REQUIRE ZDDP additives.

If you like, I'm sure I can find something on GM letterhead... but we both know that's not requires for stock/warmed over motors.

pfarber, are you really that worried the posters on this forum are ignorant?

I for one am tiring of your constant demand to be right.

Most GM factory crate engines have roller cams, the engines with flat tappet cams have the "mystery goo" added as an assembly lube. (that is what GM EOS is.)and the oil doesn't cost $15 a quart, it is more in the realm of $5 a quart. If all it take is reading a single article that's time has past (they have changed the API specs since that article was written) to become a full on expert on a subject. I suppose all the colleges would be really worried THAT little secret doesn't get out.

I'm with Roy, real tired of the 'yeah but .... yeah but ..... yeah but'

as broken points out, factory assembled engines have been properly lubed for their type, but crate engines are not what's being discussed

Bill

you know its bad when even I am tiring of this...

There's just so much more that can be discussed and cussed than whether or not an additive needs to be put in your break in oil.

If you don't believe it helps, don't put it in. Cam manufacturers seem to think it helps, and it's cheap enough to do without breaking the bank. Good insurance. I don't like doing cams and lifters twice on the same engine.

Newer factory crate engines are mostly roller type tappets, like mentioned by someone else here. There is no cam break in with rollers, so you are correct there is no special
lube needs for a newer factory crate engine for the cam. But with the old style flat tappets, any lube that has good EP qualities will be very helpful. Why? because of the high contact pressure at the cam lobe and lifter interface. There are some motor oils that are not too bad as far a EP and some not real good. I don't think cam companys have the time to test all the various oils and besides they may get in trouble some how, if they recomend a brand of oil over another. If they supply or recomend their own brand then they know that for sure their cam will be okay with it. I would think if you don't use what they recomend then they shouldn't have to honor a warranty.

That link isn't to anything from GM

no, I guess I'm not done, I want to see it on GM letterhead.

You are insistent on calling a 216 a "splash lubed engine" due to cam lobe/lifter interface and cylinder walls do not have pressurized lubrication. Given those as parameters of your argument, can you provide an example of ANY engine ever built that does not have any of your examples of "splash lubrication" in these two areas or should we start calling all engines ever built "splash engines"?

Can't we all just get along? LOL
I just broke in a new cam added the ZDDP added to Rotella 15/40 oil and ran that engine at that 1500-2000 rpm for about 20 minutes. Now after almost 400 miles find it to be the sweetest engine I have ever run. Jerry

Just to add a little more to the cam lobe debate, Rhoads Lifters now sell lifters with a very tiny groove cut in the side to provide pressure feed oil to the lifter base and cam lobe contact area. A person with a small file could do the same to any lifter. http://www.rhoadslifters.com/Pages/Superlube.html

Joe

I don't remember the brand but there are some lifters with a small hole in the center of the bottom giving direct oil to the lobe.

Here is AN OFFICIAL GM LETTERHEAD CRATE ENGINE START UP PROCEDURE FOR A GM CRATE ENGINE FROM GM (notice how many times GM is in there??? Its for real, fellas)

http://www.chevroletperformance.com...locks/350-290/350-290_HP_Engine_Base.pdf

"The 350/290 HP engine uses an aggressive flat tappet camshaft"

Notice no mystery go? And this is even an 'aggressive flat tappet motor'.

Use assembly lube and regular oil.. Really. Honest, GM says so, not me. I;m sure I can find Ford and Mopar documents also.

I'm not saying anyone is wrong, just not up to speed on modern oils and the fact they they are 100% 'backwards compatible' for all motors.

Technically there IS less ZDDP, but there never was a lot of ZDDP for wear resistance either. Now they use other additives that don't harm the catalytic converter but still pass ASTM testing.

PLEASE READ THAT DOCUMENT. Its all in there.. really. Its not hard, takes about 3 minutes.

yes, but .... yes, but .... don't see where they say anything about assembly lube, so "assembly lube" IS "mystery goo" - also don't see where they call for any cam break in as cam makers do, maybe that has already been done on a crate engine?

can we drop this? everyone [else] agrees using EOS [made by GM after all] or some other 'mystery goo' is very cheap insurance after spending a bundle on rebuilding one of these old engines, no need to rant about it being hype, owners call, use it or not

Bill

Amen

OK...OK....IS EVERYONE IN? going once...going twice....GONE!

This issue is officially kaput. Over and OUT.