The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop 1953 Chevy 3100 Rebuild Paint and Body questions

Hello all. I will first apologize if these questions have already been answered. I have done searches, but haven't found what I needed. It would be really nice if within the Paint and Body Shop forum (for example) there were sub-topics by year and make, and there in listed the specific bits of information.

Anyway......here are my questions:

1. I am considering a new body color of either dark blue or burgundy. I see where many just paint the dash board and interior the same as the body, and others another color. If I choose to go as authentic as possible what should be the interior color for the blue, and the burgundy? Head liner?

2. The truck has some peculiarities that I haven't quite worked out. Like why do I have a chrome grill, and strange bumpers, but no other chrome packages? I thought that maybe someone added these on at a later date, but the truck doesn't seem to have had any additional attention that would indicate someone spending alot of money for add on's.

3. It seems to have a dull red spray over a green paint, that seems to be over a red color. The dash is gray, but I can't tell if it is origional or not.

4. Overall the truck is in ok condition, except the floor boards. They are rusted out where they kick panels meet the floor board. The largest part of the floor board needs repaired. I am leaning towards cutting out the bad stuff, and welding in good stuff, as opposed to buying new panels. Any ideas?

Thanks for any help.

Steven

Photos
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1fhfxqw2cghrd7x/xFHWwWY3xC

Gray dash is standard color. All new trucks came with gray dash.

Korean war stopped the use of most chrome on the '52+ trucks. I believe this is true for the '53, so the proper grille would have been painted body color with Thistle gray inner bars. The bumpers and hub caps would also have been Thistle gray. Door handles and windshield divider would have stayed chrome/SS and a few other misc. parts. Interior knobs maroon plastic.

Buy the new patch panels and cut them up to get the sections you need. Way easier than fabricating panels and the costs of patch panels is reasonable.

headliner should be maroon cardboard if I am not mistaken. There are others on the forum way more knowledgeable about the different years than me. I have a '52 and only focus on getting the color correct for the '52.

Good luck.

If you choose to go as authentic as possible the interior would not be body color. You can try to find evidence of the original interior color under the firewall pad.

Bumpers are not original but are some of the coolest I've seen.

I believe the grill would not of been chrome in 53

That shade of gray looks to be added later.

It is a great looking truck as it sits

Have fun with your project

Steve,

Most of the following is simply confirming the information in posts above:

1. Exterior and Interior 1953 paint colors - DuPont codes
The 1953 standard cab Sheen Gray interior color codes are shown here (DuPont & Ditzler/PPG)

2. No chrome grill, hubcaps, bumpers, dash-grill in 1953 (the nickel? was needed in Korea). There was no deluxe package/option with chrome parts in in 1953.

3. Red was one of the original exterior colors (shown at the first link, above).

4. Repair panels are your best/easiest bet - maybe people will post their first experiences and recommendations.

Wow, what fast response. I really like this forum.

I guess for me it is a matter of purity vs what I like, vs (in a touchy feely kinda way), what the truck says to do.

The chrome would need re-done anyway, and maybe it is cheaper to return it to origional and not re-chrome it.....not sure.

Well, I think that I am a few weeks away from paint at the very best, maybe more like a month. So, I'm not stressing over it, but really appreciate the input.

Please keep any and all ideas coming. I repeat, that I am doing a rebuild, and not a restore, as I hope to drive it almost everyday.

Thanks,
Steven

Hello, I am having a bit of trouble finding a clutch head set. I definately don't feel like grinding off all of the heads just to buy more.

Of course, I have the problem of being in Italy, but I can organize transport via family in the USA.

If anyone knows where I can buy a good set, please let me know.

Here's one option... Interior screw set

here is link for screwdrivers

http://www.classicparts.com/searchprods.asp


Probably not what your looking for but it'll get you started.

http://www.oldchevytrucks.com/cart/index.asp?cat2=9630&path=1947+%2D+Early+1955+Truck+Parts%2FCab+Related+Parts%2FMiscellaneous+Cab+Items&station=

I remember a vendor having a "set" for the interior and also carried the clutch heads for the rear fenders. If this don't help try some other vendors......I mean heck, they sell the drivers so why not the screws/bolts ??

Jim Carter - clutch-head screwdrivers

MacMaster-Carr - bits (no 5/16" except in a set with other style bits)

Chevs of the 40s - bits and a set

Thanks guys, found a set. Sucks that it'll take two weeks to get here, but then again can't do much without them. I suppose I'll learn a bit of patience here.

An easy idea for your patch panels if you don't have a lot of experience welding is to get a used roper-whitney metal punch, the hand type found on ebay or your local c/list, hole punch the patch panels and use a mig with flux core wire to plug weld them, no need to run a nice bead. You can pick up a used smaller mig and avoid the cost of purchasing the gas with the flux core wire. The mig with argon shielding gas will make a lot cleaner product than the flux core, but we are talking floor panels and you can clean up with a grinder. Practice with the mig on old scrap a little and you can do it! If you have a buddy with a mig and an argon bottle then you just need a metal punch and some panels. Have fun.

Hank

Hole in Body top by hood right side:

During disassemble, I noticed a hole just forward of the passenger window. It was covered over with what seemed to be a piece of thin aluminum foil, with filler and then painted over. It appears to be a hole for a radio antenna.

Any ideas if this could have been original, or add on? There is no radio in the dash, but there is a speaker with what appears a well used wire that went either to an antenna or a radio...don't know.

Also, any suggestions on rather to keep this and add an antenna (I don't have a radio now, but who knows about the future?), or cover it back up?

It's original and for an antenna. Do as you like with it.

I've seen antennas installed on both sides. I think many dealerships back then saw it fit to install on the passenger side because it makes more sense than the driver's side. When you look at it from a purist standpoint, if it is a dealer installed option, really anything is correct. I've seen older heaters installed in some AD trucks probably because they had some old ones on the shelve and had to use them, nobody really cared back then so why should we worry too much about this stuff these days other than it can be a fun obsession.

sstock....good point.

Heater Lines.... On various pics of other 53's I've seen various water lines going through the fire wall. This is a photo of mine....Does it look right to you guys? [url=https://www.dropbox.com/s/dle2q7owbdn1bnb/P6150093.JPG]Heater lines at fire wall[/url]

...your pic...

Your truck dose not have the Ranco control valve

As in this pic
...pic...

...link...

I'm guessing that it should have this Ranco control valve. I will try and figure this one out. Thanks for the prompt reply.

Maybe?

I believe it depends on the type of heater you have.



...check here for your heater...

The motor through the firewall looks like it's for an AirFlow heater -- as in the link to the Accessories Installation Manual that you posted. AirFlow requires a Ranco valve. I bought the rebuilt and working Ranco valve for my '54 AirFlow heater on ebay. Probably over-paid, but I needed it right then.

> Hose hook-up for a Recirculating heater doesn't seem to use a Ranco valve.

> A good Stovebolt thread

Search "Ranco valve" on the forum and you will find a ton of info.

- Lonnie

Here are the two most common types of AD heaters.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/advance-design_parts_co/8129448404/in/set-72157631868452754
The recirculating motor does not extend through the firewall, so it and the rectangle shaped hole in the passenger inner cowl are covered with steel plates. Here is the exterior one.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/advance-design_parts_co/8129182431/in/set-72157631867396207
Here is the interior one.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/advance-design_parts_co/8130538304/in/set-72157631870734114
Here are all the parts needed to install the Air-Flow this is a link to a series of NOS and originals.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/advance-design_parts_co/8129413707/in/set-72157631868452754

Mine looks like the air flow one shown on pg 36 of the link you sent me.

From your pics, I definately have a part like the one in NOS9, but I guess the DEF is worn off. It also looks like model of Air flow on NOS73.

I guess that I'll have to install a ronko (find one first), as well as the pull knob, as there isn't one on mine.

Thanks.

...your pic...
Yes you have a Harrison Heater
The model number will be on a plate on the back side
Like this

Try posting an add in the parts wanted section of the the forum for the rod and bracket.
There is a guy selling rebuilt Ranco valves on eBay for around 120.00us dollars.
If you buy a used valve make sure the tube is intact otherwise it is not rebuild able core.

..pic..

...pic...

Ok, now for question 12 of 12000.

The horn. You can see from my pics...

Pic of horns

that I have two horns mounted on the firewall. I see others who have a single horn mounted on the manifold.

Any ideas?

Those horns could be car horns or they could be the truck accessory dual horns (Matched Horns). The accessory dual horns were mounted in a variety of locations, but here is the location shown in the GM installation manual.

On 1953 trucks, the standard-equipment seashell-style horn was mounted on the intake manifold.

Bent frame. Ok, the next problem to over come is that it 'appears' that the truck at some point received a blow from below against the forward cross member. That piece is bent, and when looking along the frame, it appears that the left side from the cab forward is bent inwards, as well, it is possible to see that a few of the leaf springs are slid just a little bit sideways.

Ok, I know that I need to straighten it as best as I can.

Has anyone had any luck straightening pieces themselves. As I am in Italy it will be more difficult. Of course, there are those that do this, but won't have any tooling for this one.

I will try and post a pic when I can. I've never experienced a problem such as this before. Is this recoverable or am I throwing money away?

It seems that I saw these cross-members for sale somewhere, in case I need to buy one, but now don't find them. If anyone knows of a source, I would appreciate it.

I have not seen the original front cross members reproduced, maybe someone else has and can post a link.

plenty for the hot rods and IFS conversions kits

You might be able to get a front cross member from the swap meet section section of the forum. post a request
https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=17&page=1
shipping might be a problem for you


post the pics of the damage

Were you able to drive the truck? any problems with steering or handling?

Ok I finally have gotten access to a computer again, and time to post. Here are the pics of my frame.

Frame pics

After I removed the engine, it didn't look so bad as my friend made out. As well, I noticed that what appears to be the left side (sitting in the truck)canted in is normal, but it is the right side that seems a little 'straight' if that makes sense.

Two of the photos show how the leaf springs appear to be slightly off-set.

Maybe the only thing I need to do is pound the cross-member as straight as I can, and leave it alone.

Ok. I'd like a reality check.

I have a few quotes from body guys for the paint.

One is 2500 Euro for everything, though usually they try to sneak in a few other expenses along the way, and it is a proper body shop.

The other quote is for 1700 Euro excluding paint, as I haven't yet chosen paint. This is a family friend, and just works after work and on weekends.

Of the two I am considering the more expensive as it is a more proper shop. IF they can get me in right away. Italians like to take the month of August off.

What I need the reality check on is the thought of doing it myself. I have a few of the basic tools, but have never done any body work. I am intimidated, and imagine that it'll take me 3 times the time to do it, I don't have the oven, and would have to paint outside. The practical side of me says just pay the 2500 and get it done right.

Any ideas?

The body work doesn't require much more than a few hammers and a good supply of rocks to use as dollies, some files and a way to weld in patches... But I would remove TIME from the equation if doing it myself (after doing it myself).

If Time is a factor, pay the shop and have a way to resolve issues legally. Using a 'friend' to save money usually doesn't.

my .02

Even when I am replacing just small pieces of a panel or floorboard, I always purchase the aftermarket panels and cut what I need out of them. Reason being, they have the proper stamped areas that you can't easily duplicate. The floor panels are relatively easy. Its when you get into the toeboard or inside cowl that things get interesting.

Others will argue that the aftermarket floor panels aren't the same gauge as original, but unless you have a donor cab with good floorboards, its the next best thing. In the end, its not possible to tell the difference if done right.

@Deve,

I have been viewing your website, and can really appreciate the evolution of your project.

I am in a similar situation, without adequate space. Being in Italy, I can never hope to take the time to find original replacement parts. As such, most of mine will depend upon re- manufactured parts. As such, any value in a true Restore, will be lost.

However, I have everything removed except the cab from the frame, and am leaning toward removing the cab to adequately refurb the frame and cab. So, why not sandblast the frame....., at some point I have to realize that I'll never achieve a true restore, and stick to my origional ideas of using the truck as an every day driver.

So, the decisions are truely difficult. I will probably pull the cab off...easier for the painters, but will not blast the frame....just a rust converter, primer, and paint.

Anything wrong with this?

I didn't sandblast my frame. I just went over it with a wire knotted cup wheel on a highspeed hand grinder, a drill with assorted wire wheels, cup brushes, a hand wire brush for some tight areas and even a chisel that I used by hand to chip out any pitted areas with. Then treated it with a rust inhibiting paint.
Is this the best way, no but sometimes space and equipment and funds don't allow for the best option......

John

@tclederman - thanx! Ordered a set of power bits myself!

There is nothing wrong with doing your project the way YOU choose. You are doing the truck a favor in any case. Being in the US and having a nice shop, also being a little picky with no time constraints, here is what I am doing right now...

I have my frame on a rotisserie. Easy to do. All you do is purchase two engine stands of the same kind, cut it apart so its at 90 degrees, add a 1 inch acme screw (18 inches) and now you can raise/lower as well as rotate EASILY your frame. You also have to connect them together otherwise you have problems you never envisioned. In any case, being able to spin the frame to any position easily makes your decision on what to do next pretty easy. If you do more than one frame you need this. Its also good for sandblasting, painting, prep work, everything.

In this case, I had two back operations about 5 years ago that left me with 4 titanium rods, 13 screws and 2 plates in my back, so the rotisserie is paramount. I had already painted my frame, dolled it all up with a nicely painted 261, open driveline, OD, etc. But upon looking it over with todays standard, it looked TERRIBLE. Runs, dents, pits, misery everywhere.

I chose to go ahead and NOT sandblast again, but rather just rough up the existing paint with 85 grit and start from there. Keep in mind it WAS sandblasted to begin with, then etching primer, then epoxy primer, then urethane topcoat.

So in February of this year, I started with roughing it with 85 grit. Keep in mind what we are talking about here. EVERY rivet, every channel, every impossible to reach area was roughed with 85 using various sticks with sandpaper on it. After it was roughed, I put another coat of epoxy primer on it. Since 85 makes most of the frame bare metal again anyway, not much mil thickness involved.

Once epoxy primered, LOTS of rage gold plastic was applied, then almost all of it sanded off. Imagine the fun around each rivet which may or may not be level with the steel its joining. Imagine better yet, the center cross member (just behind the cab) with lots of rust pits that needed to be addressed. Not to mention the channel at the front of the frame. All of this was sanded with 220 grit. Once this was done, about the end of April, and trust me I work 7 days a week on this project...

I then painted it with Urethane high build primer. It was nice having it one color again. Once this was done, sanding the whole thing with 400 grit dry was the next step. I researched this issue and listened to MANY experts who didn't always agree. Since you're next step is Sealer, and you cant sand sealer, 400 grit dry is all that is necessary for the frame.

So, we start all over sanding every rivet, every channel, every nook and cranny with 400 grit. At this step, we are holding a high intensity light on the work at different angles to make sure you have each rivet, all 360 degrees of each rivet, 100% flat and even. You haven't lived until you have tried this!

Its July and I am almost finished with the above critical step. Once I am finished with the 400, its cleaning the whole frame with DX330 metal prep cleaner to prepare for Sealing. The sealer is an epoxy based sealer that gets you ready for topcoat. The topcoat is applied no more than 72 hours after the sealer. So, maybe by next month, this frame will be done. With this careful of work, I am using full gloss single stage urethane. If its not REAL darn PRETTY, im gonna be disappointed. LOL.

But Deve, Your going to have to cover up all that pretty....LOL

John

Wow Dave, I'd like to see that when you are finished.

If I had the space, time, and know how, I'd be very tempted to attempt a similar job.

However, how it stands I don't. So, I am using a product called Ferox, which here in Italy, is a rust converter. Ok, it isn't 100%, and it doesn't remove pitting, scratches, etc. But, so far is doing a pretty good job on converting the rust. I am then painting over with a rust prevention primer, and will follow with a rust prevention black.

As I never intended this truck to be a show truck, only the most descerning observer will be able note that the frame wasn't blasted, and treated to a VIP spa treatment. I just want to preserve the truck for another 30-40 years, and enjoy driving it everyday without too much worry if I get it dirty or scratched.

Maybe when I an long gone, one of my boys or both, will decide to stip it down again and make a show truck. I just hope they'll feel attached enough to not sell it.

Dave, I've read somewhere that there is a Kansas Stovebolt group. are you in that? I am coming back for a visit in November. It'd be nice to meet some other stovebolters.

Have you ordered any parts from LMC? I have a large order in for a week waiting for a shipping quote. Still no word. I'll try and call, again, and see what they're up too. May have to use another supplier.

Steven