The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts Cdl ?

On one of my posts about my 51 gmc 3 ton one of the responses stated my truck would require a cdl to operate legally. I put a query out to one of the resident experts but thought I'd put it out generally as well.... The data plate states the truck has a maximum gross weight of 19000 lbs and the maximum combined gross weight is 34000 lbs. The vehicle does not have air brakes. I did some research and have some understanding but i guess i just need clarification. Any help is appreciated.

Thanks, Troy

A 19,000 pound GVW rating does not need a CDL, but may need a DOT number and a physical card. The information I could find on the internet is kind of foggy. I have a '46 Chevy with 15,000 pound GVW and need to call the state DOT to see what I need.

Troy -- We can give you a bunch of conjecture all day long .... Check with your local DMV/DOT for your state requirements that apply to your particular circumstance.

This very subject gets brought up on all of the old truck forums on a regular basis and as far as I've seen, no one has come up with a definitive answer -- including the state offices.

Generates a lot of head scratching, though!

Good luck!

If you can get a state official to tell you that you don't need commercial tags or a CDL -- get them to put it in writing over their official signature! (Good luck with that, too )

Thanks, John and Ed. I will proceed as planned... You guys have all been very helpful and I appreciate it

Troy

Tony,

A CDL is required when the total weight of your vehicle and load exceed 26,001 pound. Your truck is under that requirement as long as your not pulling a trailer.

If you hook a trailer to your truck and stay below the 26,001 threshold you're still ok, but as soon as the combined weight goes over 26,001 pounds you need a CDL.

Mike B

Yeah, the CDL was supposed to be a Federal thing but there sure are State variations. I wish they just kept things the way they were.

Bill

I think ALL States use the 26,001 weight classification. Other items/issues may differ or be unclear...

Mike B

The law is 26,001 GCW in all states. Theoretically, If a vehicle is capable of 26,001 weight, it should be classified as a commercial vehicle. However, if you don't have a 5th wheel or trailer coupling device, it becomes a gray area. That means that it becomes a subjective choice of the patrolman. Most patrolmen are basically nice guys and overlook antique vehicle. A few are not. I have been in the trucking business since 1964 and I deal with both kinds with our over the road trucks. The worst problem is that if a trooper writes us up on a gray area, the judge usually sides with the trooper and considers him the expert.

Here is a pretty concise version of motor carrier safety laws.



My suggestion to people who have an antique truck with a rated GCW of more than 26,001, but they never reach that weight is just get rid of the higher number on the data tag. Its not like you are changing a vin number and who will know what the original GCW was on a 60 year old vehicle and that removes the question.

I agree with Kenneth. I am also in the trucking business and have found that it doesn't matter what the truck is licensed for its about the tag in the door that says what the truck can hold. I have also found that most dot personnel are fair as long as you make a reasonable attempt at following the regulations. If you just give the shrug your shoulders reaction you are going to be in for a ticket and maybe even a tow. A little documentation in the cab folder can save many hard feelings. A current registration card and insurance card at the minimum. Know where the data tag is on your truck and offer to show it to the person that has you stopped. If you have collector or antique plates on your vehicle have a copy of the state rules for the plates you have on your truck. If you are hauling anything other than a cooler or a box with some tools in it be real careful because you will find yourself under a whole bunch more rules because you are hauling cargo.....

Mike, Just to make things clear, I wasn't dis-agreeing with the 26,001 weight. I was just speaking about CDL's in general. There have been a lot of discussions and dis-agreements about the details of them and I have been into some of them.

Bill

Commercial means just what it says...used for commerce. If the vehicle is a privately owned vehicle not use for commerce in any way shape or form it is not commercial. commerce is any use for any exchange of goods or services. A friend could not buy you a meal or pay for gas for you using your truck, that would make it commercial, you do not need to make money on the deal.

That being said you do not need a CDL for a non-commercial vehicle of any size or weight. Some states (I'm in GA and we do) have a NON-commercial class A license.

I have not heard of any state requiring a CDL for non-commercial use, although I only have personal experience in Ohio and Georgia.

When I was in Ohio I sent an online inquiry about needing a CDL and got a call back from a State Trooper. I specifically asked if I could go down and buy a brand new Class A truck (Kenworth,International, Peterbilt, etc...) and drive it without a CDL and he said yes, but was very adamant about what defined commercial use. I'll say it again, if you help a buddy move from New York to California and spend $2000 on fuel and he say thank you and gives you a twinkie for your effort you used your truck commercially. There is absolutely no leeway in the definition.

Tad

All states have an exemption for farm trucks, but you must be hauling farm products. A lot of troopers are as misinformed as people who make posts on forums. Have you read the Georgia DDS codes?
http://www.dds.ga.gov/commercial/Rules.aspx#2

The DOT guy here in Ohio told me to just put Antique Vehicle plates on my 2-ton to clear up any "grey areas". Ohio says to qualify for Antique plates: "A vehicle must be at least 25 years old to qualify for antique plates. In addition, the vehicle must only be used for antique exhibitions, parades, and related activities, not for routine transportation." Since the antique plates automatically disqualify the truck for use as a commercial vehicle, you should be golden. Plus ODOT only charges a one-time fee of $21.00 for the plates... no yearly renewal.

The original post was from someone who claims to live in Alabama. I would suggest he read this.

http://dps.alabama.gov/documents/manuals/cdlmanual.pdf

The chart for whether a CDL is required is copied from the Federal requirements. Incidentally, Georgia uses the same chart. Some states do issue antique vehicle registration, but the use of the the vehicle is very limited. One of the things I have learned in owning a trucking business for 49 years is to read, not listen to what people have to say. And this is my whole point.

In CO and probably other states, if hauling a trailer weighing more than 10,000 lbs., a CDL is required, no matter what is towing it.

there's plenty of confusion and misinformation out there, and sometimes, even the laws are confusing. links to various websites are wonderful i suppose, but, sometimes it comes down to an interpretation by a dot cop.

i'll try to give you honest answers, with explainations as i go. i'm sure some of this won't apply to your individual case.

a vehicle that has a RATED CAPACITY of 26,001 or higher, requires a c.d.l. license. there are exceptions for emergency vehicles, but little else.

ANY VEHICLE that is rated, or hauls over 10,000 pounds gross weight and is used for business or for hire, requires a d.o.t. number, and the owner is required to keep records. this is where it gets tricky. "business" and "commerce" can have loose definitions, but in the strict definition, that means ANY form of payment or restitution for services rendered. if you haul your buddies broke down car on your trailer, and he buys your gas, or, lunch, or offers to fix your plumbing in your kitchen as payment for your good deed, then SOME cops will see that as payment, and if you are stupid enough to tell the cop that your buddy is buying the gas, you may get a pretty stiff fine. i saw a perfect example of this a few years ago. i was working at indianapolis raceway park, and a d.o.t. cop was writing tickets to every competitor who was pulling a race car on a hauler trailer that didn't have a d.o.t. number. the cop told every one of them that if it was POSSIBLE they could win money, or, a trophy, that was considered "commerce". the tickets, all of them, stood up in court. i think the cop was told to "knock it off" by his superiors after a howl of protests, and the threat by track officials to ban the state police from the grounds.
still, the tickets held up in court.

in all my years in law enforcement i have to tell you, most people talk themselves into trouble. had they simply shut up, then nothing would have happened. in the end, remember. A COMMERCIAL VEHICLE IS CONSIDERED ANY VEHICLE THAT IS USED FOR COMMERCE, AND COMMERCE IS DEFINED AS ANY FORM OF PAYMENT INCLUDING SERVICES. a good idea is, if asked, to answer "i'm doing this because i want to, and i'm not receiving anything for it". oh, by the way. if you run a d.o.t. number and travel outside a 100 air mile radius, you have to have log books. fun stuff, huh?

back to the c.d.l. and the rules. in some states, indiana being one, a vehicle under 26,000 doesn't have to stop at a weigh scale. in illinois, they do. i have seen a few old trucks in different states with signs that say " not a commercial vehicle" painted on the bed. in oklahoma, i've seen 1/2 ton pickup trucks with signs that say "commercial vehicle". check the laws in your state, and i suggest you get a copy to keep with your registration.

finally this. remember your vehicle gross weight rating can put you overweight should you load it too heavy. the same applies to a trailer. in indiana, a person can plate a car hauler with a 3,000 pound plate, and it's legal..... until you put a car on it. the combined weight of the car and trailer must not exceed the rated weight of the license plate. this same rule applies to a truck pulling a trailer. once the combined weight of the combination exceeds 26,000 pounds, a c.d.l. is required, and since it is a truck and trailer, a class A c.d.l. is required.

yeah....... i know........... clear as mud, right? in the end, good advice is for you to check the laws for YOUR STATE, as you are governed by them nomatter where you travel, and keep a copy with your registration to present to law enforcement should the need arise.

You are right, many are misinformed. I'm not though.

Recreational vehicles are exempt from CDL.

A class E license is for non commercial(i.e. No CDL) use. Farm use is not required. The link you posted is exemptions from a CDL, not how a Class E can be used. (below is pasted from dds website)

Class E (formerly Non-Commercial Class A)**

Truck trailer or tractor-semi trailer combination in which the combination weight exceeds 26,001 pounds and the unit being towed exceeds 10,000 pounds.

I got stopped at a chicken coop by MO-DOT for not having a "semi commercial" license even though the Terra Star I was driving was a 16,000 GVW. Had to leave it parked until I came back with the Class E endorsement. Never even heard of a class E prior to this.

This type of thing is exactly why the federal government required states to pass uniform CDL laws 25 years ago. Before that, we had to comply with every state's licensing laws. Later states were taken away motor carrier regulating authority, as well as posting a fuel bond. In MO a class E license is required for a non CDL vehicle used in commerce. In Louisiana, a class E license is for a personal vehicle only. I hear of this type of thing with people who rent medium duty trucks. The rental company assures the renter that the vehicle is under 26001 gross and does not require a CDL, but the renters are not made aware of the crazy laws that some states have regarding non commercial vehicles as defined by the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration.
If the Terra Star did not have a RV body on it, you probably were required to conform to their dumb law.

In my opinion, the Government issed the CDL to simplify things, but it gave the impression that the rules were going to be a lot simplier than they turned out to be.

Back when the states had it, I never remember any confusion going on, in my state and neighboring states anyway, although I realize the problems of running in unfamiliar multi-states.

Bill

So why not just go and get a CDL and be done? The process isn't that bad.

OK...here goes again.

This is for California drivers.

After reading the new California Drivers Handbook, I was more confused than ever, so.

I went to my local CHP (California Highway Patrol) and spoke with the officer that monitors local commercial vehicles.

As long as I drive the truck without any load on/in the bed I will be fine, but as soon as I put anything on the bed...even a grocery bag. It becomes a commercial vehicle and requires a CDL and a "CA number" and if I load dirt or other commodity I need a CPUC number also. This is regardless of weight issues or 26,001 lbs.

Also, I had to get a "smog exemption" for it from the local Air Quality Control Board and Air Resources Board.

The California CDL was not to hard to get, except I had to drive 70 miles to take the drivers driving test and a physical. The "CA number" was free from CHP office.

As long as I do not load the flat-dump bed with lumber or dirt I do not need a CPUC number/permit. Oh yeah and not for hirer.

To be sure check with your local DMV and/or State Trooper/Highway Patrol.

Talk with the guy who writes the tickets...;}

Further....my vehicle insurance company required that I get a CDL. So you might want to check with your insurance carrier too.

My post didn't realize I wasn't signed in. Also didn't realize you could post without signing in?
Does seem strange though that someone would be required to get a cdl for a unladen antique yet many states such as Iowa allow you to drive a fully laden combination vehicle on a car license as long as you are hauling farm produce within 150 miles of farm.

Not exactly. By CHP / California rules, any built vehicle is a commercial vehicle. CHP officers and scales are all over the place. By their rules, a 1/2 ton with a service body or flat bed has to go through scale as it is a commercial vehicle. 50% of the scales understand that, the other 50% get [censored] that you are driving through! You'll notice most California scales say "No Pickups". A pickup is never considered a commercial vehicle. ( Hauling a trailer is a different story.) If it left the factory as a cab / chassis, that is a commercial vehicle. If it left with a pickup bed, it is not. Chevy doesn't build dump truck bodies, someone else does and adds it to a cab / chassis.

Then you have to to not only consider weight, but combined vehicle lengths, etc. Since I have a California CDL with Haz Mat endorsement, I can drive almost anything. I don't have the doubles endorsement. I don't worry too much about what vehicle I'm driving until it is a 26,001 or more. Then I have to do a daily inspection on the vehicle and fill out a drivers log ( although I have some exemptions there.) Every two years I need to renew my medical cert ( although, I recently start taking some BP pills and that put me on an annual recert.) Every four I need to retest on my Haz Mat.


As long as you follow the California BIT requirements, the CHP won't bug you. They just want to know that you have a safe vehicle on the road. Sometimes easier to do with fleets than it is to do with individuals.

Mine is a 1952 GMC 454-30, a 3 ton flat bed with 179 inch wheel base.

It has a Heil flat bed dump body, which according to DMV may cause me headaches down the road. I was advised not to register it as a dump truck, but rather register it as a flat bed truck.

I know people who still think as long as you have a California drivers license you can drive any two axle vehicle, that is except for a school bus.

Hmmm. Even for some RV's you have to have a CDL.

State by State RV Driver's License Requirements.

there's a reason virtually all bus conversions and motor homes are under 40' and less than 26,000#

Bill