The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Some newbie questions!

I'm getting to the stage of my 1957 235 rebuild where it's almost ready to be started. Once the next shipment of parts comes in, it would have been ready.

Before I start it, I wanted to wear it in and free it up just a bit, so I connected the drive shaft and filled it with oil for the first time since I reassembled it. The plan was to put it in 2nd or 3rd gear and pull it with a tractor because the engine is really tight and is almost impossible to turn over by hand. Unfortunately, oil began leaking from the timing cover when I primed the oil pump so I never got to that stage. So I removed the fan, removed the harmonic, and pulled the cover. Turns out, I had stupidly used Indian Head Shellac instead of some high quality Permatex / silicone and it was pretty thin. Cleaned it up, put some high quality RTV silicone on the gasket and resealed. Added another quart of oil and slept on it.

Woke up this morning and oil is leaking from 'behind' the timing cover plate now. Does this pretty much mean I have to pull the whole engine, remove the crank, the cam and start from scratch? Pretty disappointed in the outcome but I'm at a bit of a loss.

Also on a side note: is it ok to hook up the clutch pedal linkage, put it in 2nd or 3rd and pull the chassis with a tractor? My thinking was that this would lube the engine a bit and get everything freed up before I move on to firing it.

True newbie here, self taught only, so I apologize if these are dumb questions.

I wouldn't try pulling it around to "loosen it up". Best way to properly break it in would be to run the engine. Add a bottle or 2 of EOS then run it at approximatly 2000-2500 for about 20 minutes or soo. No idling! Once you've done that, change the oil and filter (if eqipped, highly reccomended).
You mention using silicone as a gasket sealer, you really shouldn't. Silicone rtv is intended as a gasket maker, to be used in place of a cut gasket. For a sealer, Indian Head or Permatex High Tack will do fine.

If it were me, I would drop the pan and pull the front bearing cap first. I would carefully apply some sealant between the front bearing and timing plate. (hoping of course that its just leaking from the lower half)

I think I'll be priming my oil pump before I take my engine off the stand for this reason!

good luck
Mark

Yeah, I added a bottle of EOS before I found the leak. I may just try starting it when the parts get here then, just like you said. Also, you're right about that RTV, I just checked the package. Never noticed that it was a gasket maker instead of sealer. The problem is, I used Indian Head on the timing cover and it failed. Granted, it's been on there for about a year without the engine ever being run, so that might have contributed. Still, I'm a bit leery of using it again.



Hah, I hope you don't have the same issue! I think you're right though. I may be able to check it / seal it with the pan off, because it doesn't seem like a major leak. I smeared some heavy duty grease on the outside of the lip between the pan and the plate, and for now that seems to have held off the oil (or I leaked out so much that it's too low in the pan now... ). Either way, I'll definitely give that a try before I go pulling the entire engine, thanks for the suggestion.

I've read that these plates can cause sealing problems on some forums, so I guess it's not all that uncommon. Still, it's giving me a headache to think I'll have to disassemble everything.

After I replied I quickly ran out to the garage to double check what I have been using! :P

I hope you figure it out - keep us updated.

I'm hoping to get mine started for the first time in the next week or two - baring no issues... <knock on simulated wood counter>

Vanatti,
there really isn't a way of getting much oil into the timng cover without running the engine or spinning the oil pump. I think your oil leak is from something else. I would check the pan seal at the front.

I spun the oil pump with an electric drill for about a minute or two which is what I think forced oil through those front journals and into the timing cover to allow me to see the leak. Now that I resealed that timing cover gasket, it's leaking down the backside of the timing cover thrust plate.

If I remember the build correctly, that means it could either be the plate<>engine block gasket or the pan seal at the front. Like Mark said, I'll be pulling the oil pan to make sure it's not the pan before I do anything crazy.

Luckily I built a mechanics pit into my garage floor (in Florida!) so that will make it a lot easier to pull and inspect. I'll let you guys know if I learn anything new, thanks much for all the suggestions!

Ok - I have garage envy!

The seal at the front of the pan stops the oil from leaking out from between the pan and the main bearing cap and also the pan and the plate. You should be able to see that area easily.

Well... didn't make much progress today. All in all I'd say I opened a can of worms. I have more questions today than I did yesterday!

Before I got to pulling the pan today, I decided to try hooking up the clutch pedal and pulling it around the yard. Just to see if I could get the engine to turn over even a bit. The problem is, all I have on the Tranny are the 2nd/3rd gear post and the 1st/rev post, with no idea which way they go. I put vice grips on each post and tried different combinations, but in every instance it would just drag the back wheels. I can't find what post configuration means what in my manual so it's just guess and check right now. Google yielded nothing. Two posts with positions that look like: " \ | / ", for both. That is 9 12 and 3 o'clock positions on each respectively.

Oddly enough, some of the combinations would drag the engine even WITH the clutch pedal held down, so I'm not sure what that was all about. Might have some gears off in the tranny.

When I got it back under the car port, I actually tried engaging the starter with a 50 amp battery charger hooked to it. It just grinds on the fly wheel and won't slide in at all, so I'm thinking I was sent the wrong starter rebuild kit or something.

Tried hooking a pipe wrench to the harmonic while my father spun a back wheel that was jacked up and got absolutely nothing.

So, all in all I'd say I've screwed quite a few things up. Timing cover plate is leaking, engine won't turn over even with an incredible amount of torque, and the starter doesn't seem to fit the flywheel.

The parts to finish the engine will be here in two days, so I've decided to pull the engine, mount it securely on a stand / hoist, and get it started and running on there before I ever mount it to the frame. Probably should have done that from the beginning for sake of ease. From there I can try all the good suggestions you guys have given.

Sound like the right thing to do?

Probably a good time to take a fresh breath of air and slow down. Do some reading about your truck and check out the service manual. If you can't turn the motor over by hand you should stop and find out why. And when you do get the motor out, take your time and check things as you go. Then you can figure out whats going on. One part at a time. Good Luck Don

Agree with Don 100% - I know what you're feeling - you really want to see this thing run and it's a bitter pill to swallow to take steps backwards.

Having the engine on a stand and determining why it wont turn by hand sounds like a plan. Even with sticky assembly oil I can turn my crank at the ballancer with two hands and some grunting!

Did you plastiguage all the bearings?

Was it a rope seal you used?

From one newbie to another - I'm sure you'll figure this out!

Keep us posted.

Yep, plastiguaged them to specs. I actually tore the engine apart a few months after I rebuilt it because it wouldn't turn over. I used a fine grit emery cloth, rechecked the bearings, and resealed it.

Even then, it took me with a large screwdriver on the flywheel, another person on the fly wheel, and my father with a pipewrench on a steel bar in the harmonic. All of that and we were only able to get it to move about 10 degrees. At the time, my father said it was fine and normal, but since then every guy with a 235 or similar I've talked to said they could turn it much easier than that. And I did use a rope seal if I remember right, so that's a good thing to check.

As you said, it's time to stop rushing and take my time. Gonna go back, double check everything, and get my engine running smooth and to specs before I do anything else. Bought all the materials to fashion myself my own engine test stand today. It's basically just a floor box that I'll transfer the engine to when it's done being fixed on the stand. Nothing fancy but it'll allow me to start it off the frame.

For rebuild the engine, all I have to go on is a reprint of the 1957 chevy shop manual and the owner's manual. So far that's done pretty well, but are there any other resources available I'm unaware of?

Thanks a lot for the help by the way, I appreciate how well you all put up with us new and unlearned guys!

So when the crankshaft and camshaft were all in and main caps torgued down how did it turn then? Hard or real easy?

When you installed the rear main seal did you "roll" it into the groove and trim the ends before you installed the main cap?

Check the oil pan real close. I just rebuilt an engine and I had a small rust pit in the pan that leaked oil through it.

Almost impossible to turn at that point. I should have known that wasn't normal but at the time I just went off what I was told. I feel better going back to fix it now.




I believe I did. Something else to double check.


I'm lifting the engine today so wish me luck!

Are you very certain that this is a 235 and that all the parts are proper for it and correct? You wouldn't be the first guy to get surprised.

It's definitely a 235 and the parts all seem to check out. The pistons and crank are still original so the only added part that could have locked it up are the bearings or the crank being off.

But as an update: I wasn't happy with how tight the engine was, so I pulled it. But since I couldn't get the engine to turn, I couldn't get the flywheel or bellhousing off. Just to be sure, a neighbor friend brought over a marine cell battery that had 1000 cranking amps and that STILL wouldn't turn my motor over, so something was definitely wrong. Had to lay the motor on it's side, pull the pan, loosen all the bearings and spin it with the marine battery to get the bellhousing off.

Mounted it, checked it, and the bearings were scored enough to warrant it being bad. Still not sure what the problem is, so I pulled the crank and took it to a machine shop. They said they'd let me know by monday if it needs grinded or polished and what my problem could be.


Heck of a can of worms all because a timing cover leak, huh?

You'd be happy with just timing cover leak next time!