The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Tool Chest Newb at welding. Flux core or gas?

Just bought my 1st welder. Got it used off of CL with gauges for $150. I am happy as a dog with a bone!

The instruction manual says that flux core no gas welding produces less heat than gas welding. I plan to do most of my own welding after practicing on several household projects.

Would it be best for me to practice with flux core? What size wire is best to learn with?

Ain't she PUUUURRRDY? http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt269/fastboatman29212/65%20Chevy%20C10/welding/0111121921.jpg

keep us posted on how you make out. yep. that thing is as purdy as a speckle pup laying under a wagon.

...when you come to the reunion be sure to bring it and give us demostrations!!!

Flux is messy and splatters all over. Smokey and hard to see what you are doing. It costs more to go to gas but there is a reason. Welds are cleaner and prettier.

What do you want to do with it? I only fluxcore when I have to tack something together outside in the wind where the wind would blow my gas away. Gas is better. If you are asking what to do, get a gas bottle of MIG mix and practice with that.

As far as wire, .030 is probably the best to learn with. Again, depends on what you want to do. Are you doing structural or sheet metal? If sheet metal, you want .023 and gas. For structural, .030 or .035, with .030 usually preferred unless you are doing something very thick (like half-inch).

The manual says less heat? No. Not sure that is true. Primary reason to do flux is if you weld outside or can't afford gas. No other benefit other than price. If they mean smaller HAZ (Heat Affected Zone), then go TIG, not MIG.

What is the amp range of your welder? How many amp settings does it have? Is it 120V or 240V?

Congrats on your purchase. Some good welding forums are at Hobart and www.shopfloortalk.com. Good luck with it.

Its been almost 30 years since I bought my first wire machine. I used .030 and didn't try to weld anything less than 14 gauge until I got used to the machine. If you start on thinner stuff, you will burn holes and get frustrated. I have welders from 135 amp up to 440 amp, and each has a purpose. When I work with my jalopies, I use a 140 Hobart that runs on 110 with .025 wire and CO2 argon mix gas. However, I would recommend starting with some heavier metal so you can learn to watch the penetration. And make sure you use a lens that is light enough so you can watch what you are doing. I wouldn't even try to use flux core because it will frustrate you. Once you have lots of practice, you can use flux where there is a wind. I am assuming you bought the machine to do some work on your vehicle. Once you become proficient, you will probably not use anything but .025 wire. I still practice on scrap similar to what I am going to weld to get my machine set at the right heat and wire speed.

R-Bo,
My new welder is 120 volt with 130 amps and can weld up to 3/16". I plan to do body panels, door skins and repairs where I had to pull apart pieces where they were spot welded. I will make sure that I have practiced enough to not make a royal disaster! I need to buy a bottle and more wire, so the advice you have given is helpful.


crenwelge,
Thanks for the advice. Yes, I plan to practice a lot before doing anything of importance. The simple stuff that needs doing will allow this welder to pay for itself and the rest is just savings!! I am thankful for this forum and willing folks like yourself who can give advice.

Jay

Jay,

You can go to metal store and buy 18gauge sheet metal (mild steel) to practice with. That is about the same as what is on old trucks. See if they have any scraps or odd sizes they would recycle they should give you a deal if they want your business now that you will be welding. May need some odd pieces any way to patch in on your truck. Just thinking if you can find some small pieces you can practice welding them together and not spend time cutting a sheet apart.

When you buy a welder about the first thing you find out is that cutting your pieces to fit and getting that fitment and set up done is where you spend more time than actual welding. I have tried plasma, torch, electric reciprocating saw, cut-off wheel on a rotary air tool, hacksaw, chop saw, metal blade on a circular saw, and a horizontal band saw, among other things, to cut metal.

Probably what I like best for sheet metal is air-powered "body saw", but get extra blades! I have a new air shears I haven't tried yet. But that will be the next thing you start thinking about, cutting, trimming, fitting...

I saw a tool called an air nibbler. Even HF sells them. But for now, just gonna concentrate on laying down a nice weld and learning how to adjust the welder for different circumstances.

when i first started welding i used gas but then switched to flux core because they recommend that for the thicker metal. but what i didnt realise is you have to switch polarity when going from gas to flux. so i was very frustated with my results till i figured that out. just alittle help from another newbie welder

Thanks for being helpful. One of the 1st things I did after I bought this welder was go on the internet and download the owner's manual. I actually read it too! LOL!!

I did see about switching polarity in the manual. I plan to practice with a gas setup but I will eventually want to try the flux core too, just to see how it works and what can be done. It might help with some of my outdoor welding projects.

All I have is the small 110 HF flux core so I can't speak to anything else. I did have a certified welder help me with a new nut inside my oil pan and he gave me some good pointers for using it.
Since they tend to be 'dirty' by nature take the time to brush and clean each spot weld as you go or before hitting that area again.

I watched as he went about doing my oil pan and it was spot, peen, wire brush, and move to another area or wait for the heat to abate, then it began again.
So far that's worked for me with my panel repairs just fine.

you mean you read the manual! do we need to get you a testosterone shot. just kiddin i too had a pro come set mine up but then i put it away for a while(intimidated i guess) just play with it and you will get the hang of it. i am still learning but getting better all the time. good luck

When dealing with sheet metal there are several things to remember.

1) Clean the metal to a point where you would eat off of it.
2) Never lay down a long bead. If you do, you will end up with a nice warped piece of metal. The better way is to spot weld in vaious areas to minimize the warping.
3) Use a piece of copper, like a flattend piece of pipe, behind your work to avoid blowing holes. Your weld will not stick to copper.
4) S*** runs down hill.
5) Payday is on Friday.


Dale

I prefer gas myself. I used a Hobart 140 with the flux core, and it seemed to do a pretty good job. In the past, I've used a Lincoln with flux core and wasn't that impressed at all. With flux the big thing is having good, clean material to work with. Having good quality wire and a good machine helps too.

Personally, I hate the flux core set ups. The smoke, spatter and much more expensive wire (almost double non-flux) make me wonder why anyone still uses them. The only thing I can find that's a real positive is the entry price, but even that goes away to the wire costs if you weld very much. I just replaced my vintage 110/90 amp with new Millermatic 140 dual voltage (110/240v). Man, do I ever wish I'd done it sooner! It makes me look like a much better welder than I am. I run .023 for sheet metal or can switch over to 240 and .035 and that rascal will put down an amazing bead. Used it to weld some 8" schedule 40 pipe and the bead & penetration looked like something a "real welder" had done. Don't limit yourself going in. As you learn, you'll find more & more needs for a decent system. After all, there's a lot more to these old Stovebolts than just sheet metal. Just my 2-cents.

Much easier to get good welds with mig and .023 wire as opposed to flux core on sheet metal. doing the weld as short pulses with a little practice you can even weld up rust pin holes

easyer yes more expensive most deffinately lol a flux core welder you can buy for around 125 you wont find a gas welder for under 400

btw ugly welds on bodywork isn't a prob as long as you can control the burn through.. your going to be grinding down the weld anyway

I bought my Clarke 130 MIG welder for $150 because I waited for a good deal to come along. So it was very affordable.

I was not as patient when it came to the gas bottle. That cost me about $300 with the gas.

All together I have about $500 invested in welder, gas and supplies and the funny thing is that I haven't even learned how to weld yet. LOL! My wife just rolls her eyes and shakes her head!

I will practice on stuff that will not matter until I get used to how to adjust the settings. Then I will move on to body panels and pin holes. I have confidence and no worries because this is gonna be a DD and not a show truck.

Flux core wire is not recommended for auto sheet metal as the flux is hard to remove and can come back to haunt you after the truck is painted.

Mike B

Just curious, Are you referring to the acid from the flux reacting with epoxy primers, ghosting through the paint, or something else?

I should have said Slag. When welding with Gas you don't have any slag to remove, but you will with the Flux Core Wire.

Mike B

lol any weld weather its gas or flux should always be gound and sanded before any paint is applied, thats just common since, even gas you get a certain amount of smelting effect "seperation of metal impurities" in the welding puddle, so its always best even if the weld looks pure to prep it before the final finish

Things to remember about welding #1 Burns hurt #2 got to be clean real clean #3 Get flashed hurts long time #4 tack tack tack long runs #5 heat warps metal ( in a rush might not be time to weld) #6 always ground direct to what your weldeng .Unless its your in laws stuff then ground to back bumper then arc across water pump . Flashing the in laws is ok

You know how to fix welding burns................get tattoos!!

One thing I've been telling people for a long time. Enjoy the puddle!!

Thats a thought

Lots of good info here.

I went to my local community college and took their beginning welder class. Got to try everything. It was a 1 hour class, 4 days a week for 5 weeks, plus virtually unlimited shop time with access to all their tools and welders and shears and cutters.

Worth every penny.

I taught myself to weld, first with a 110V stick welder (still useful for some things), then with a 110V wire-feed Clarke running flux-core wire. Since I added the gas kit to the Clarke, I have never looked back to flux core. If I need to weld something heavy, I either use multiple passes with my welder, or, if it can wait until a visit with my family, I'll use my dad's 220V Hobart.