The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot '60-'66 Trucks Keep the six or put in a V8?

Ok, I've been hummin and hawin about this for quite some time now, thought I'd run it by you guys to gather opinions. My 61 Apache 10 has its original 235 six, it runs flawlessly, doesn't hardly use oil. It's in great shape for being original to the truck. I was gonna replace this with a 350 but not so sure anymore. What I plan to use the truck for is pretty much all kinds of driving, will still be using it as a truck. But, I would like it to be able to cruise the highways and be able to get up highway hills without bogging right down...and eventually i want to pull a small camper with it. I like the six because it's unique...everyone has a 350 it seems. But the six is so friggin slow. It's all I can do to keep up with highway traffic as it is now. A 350 would give it more juice, but it would not be original and not near as interesting. But I do hear it's much cheaper to rebuild a 350 than a 235.

What are your experiences with both engines? Can the six be made to be more powerful, maybe I need to change out the transmission to get more out of it? I currently have the 4 speed, SM420 I think it's called....the one with the super low 1st gear that I can't use unless I want to pull my house.

Thanks in advance for the feedback!

Adam

Adam
Although I have a '48 I was in the same boat as you. We got the original 216 running after sitting for 38 years, and it ran really good. Drove it all summer, to several shows 1-3 hours away. I restore vintage campers and even towed a small one several times with the 216. It just did not have the backbone to tow with. But by itself it did ok, but it also was a babbit motor, and I just knew it eventually would fail and my initial re-build quotes were quite high. A friend had a rebuilt 283 and gave me a great price and it now rests in the truck. Originally I did not want a SBC, or at least a 350, since it seems it is almost what everyone does, but it sure gonna pull my campers better. Just my 2 cents! Oh yea...have a T5 behind it also!

You most likely can't pull the camper.The 350 with a T5 is a good choice but you can use the old 4 speed flor shift just as well.

I myself would try keep the 6. If you haven't already, try a good super tune, advance the timing as much as you can and add a non-restrictive muffler. I've never had a 235 on the road, but I've had some pretty good luck with 250's and 292's. A lot of people would rather have a newer type 235 over a 250. I have no problems selling 235's whenever I get one.

Also if you need more Hi-way speed, try larger tires on the rear. You've got that great SM-420 Trans to take care of anything the tires might set off on the low end.

By the way, that 235 you have is the same type of engine that was in some road tractors back in the older days. Some of those trucks would haul pretty good loads including new cars to the dealers. .....5 or 6 at a time.

Bill

I vote for keeping the 6 as well. The 235 has plenty of power, the speed problem is more gearing than anything. Put in an overdrive or change the diff gearing, you'll pick up some top end.
I'm running the 235 in mine, it has no problems keeping up with highway traffic in overdrive. I have 3.90 rearend gears and .70:1 overdrive ratio. Most of the time, I don't even need to stomp it into kickdown to pass.
BTW, you would need a different bellhousing to swap to a V8.

I say V-8, lots more power and better fuel economy, but that's just one guys opinion,
Scott

V-8's are like bellybuttons- - - -everybody's got one! Find a 292 and do some go-fast stuff to it. You'll have plenty of low-end torque, and if you can match it up to something like a 3-speed with OD or a 4L60 automatic you'll have good highway speed also.
Jerry

bellybuttons?

Jerry,

You are getting delicate with your replies.

Building a 292 would be really cool.
Kirby has a 292 in it. kirby


Tim

I bet 292s are hard to find though. And would it really have that much more power to make it worth ditching the 235?

And would a 292 bolt up to the same bellhousing as a 235? Wondering if it would work with the existing SM420 too.

If you want the orginial type why not a 283 with a 500 four barrel carb and some dual exhaust. Not as powerful as a 350 but there are not many 283s left and like you said everyone has a 350. My 65 has a 283 with a two barrel and duel exhaust it sounds great and runs as smooth as any engine I have ever saw.

You would need to find a V-8 bellhousing for your truck. The 235 bellhousing will not bolt up to the 292, but all the 2nd.-generation sixes have the same bellhousing bolt pattern as the V-8's. Your present transmission will be a bolt-on to the V-8 housing, so the swap will be relatively simple. If you decide to go with a 283 or a 350 later, it will be a very simple conversion, involving relocating one side motor mount. Have fun!
Jerry

Original: 6cyl, stick shift.

Driveable, powerful, reliable, comfortable: V8, automatic.

There is no replacement for displacement, as they say. A V8 will croooooooooooooz.

My "old" 61 Chevy had a 283. It was bagged, but I loved it. I considered that too but thought they were also too rare these days. If I can find one I will definitely go that route, keep the 4 speed, and likely change out the rear end gearing so it's more highway friendly. I love 350s but it seems like everyone has one. I like to be unique. Kinda why I picked the oddest looking truck Chevy has ever made.

I vote for the 6...............There are "things" you could do to make the 235 more powerful, dual carbs, larger exhaust, lump port heads, larger bore, etc........Everybody goes for the V8 option, it's overdone. A built 6 would be cool and serve your needs. Also, you could go for a built 250 or 292.

My '60 Chevy with stock 235 keeps up on the highway just fine. 60 to 65 MPH easy all day. Even with 195 ft/lbs torque stock, it pulls hills with no problem. I wouldn't pull a camp trailer though without mod's.......

Try talking to the "Inliners", I think their website is www.Inliners.org. They eat, sleep, drink inline engines.

Iron Clad, I'm suprised yours keeps up on the highway just fine...does it have stock rear end gearing too? Mine has the stock 4 speed and the 3:90 gears, it'll do 60-65 miles an hour...if there's no wind, and it's flat ground. If there's wind, a hill, or both, I have to floor it and it wont go over 55-60. Everyone does drive really fast here in Alberta though.

HI there just joined
Let just solve some thing here the 235 can and will be a good drag engine if you so want if you are staying stock then put a tiwn carb manifold on with tiwn pipes then change your tail up to a 3.55 to 3.10 that brings your rpm down
3.10 will run right at around 2000 rpm
3.55 2500rpm
3.73 is what you will have that is 2750 this all happens at 60 mph
your best bet is some where around 3.22 that will let you run 75 easy
the inliner international has warm up parts for inline sixes I used to drag race a 216 in my younger years and 350s were not the king of the hill then , I now run a 302 6 in my one ton 1951 and gearing is a killer in that with 5,14 in the tail, oh well that is lift when you have apuller sundown

I've been thinking about what you've said here, and it reminded me of a very similar performance issue I had. Flat road, no wind, it would go just fine. However, a headwind (or even the lousy aerodynamics of these old brick shaped trucks) and/or any noticable grade would slow it down considarably. I would have to mat it just to keep a decent road speed, even in overdrive. Ended up being the clutch. I had the pedal linkage too tight, so it was basically operating like as if I was riding the clutch all the time, making it slip. Readjusted the linkage to the spec of 3/4" freeplay, problem solved. I can easily run with pretty much anything on the road. 70+ is no problem in 3rd, OD locked out. In overdrive, well, lets just say I've had it way faster than anyone should really go with stock brakes, it'll run 75-80 at 2600-2700 rpm.. I'm running the same 3.90 rear you have, with a 30" tire. My engine is warmed over, with dual Holleys, Fentons, milled head, Howar M4F cam, and upgraded ignition (Mallory, not Pertronix).

My truck has the 3 speed tranny. To be honest, I'm not sure what the rear differential gear ratio is. (You would think I should know by now!!!) Anyway, I routinely drive my truck 60 mph on the highway and the rpm's don't seem to be too high. My truck pulls the pass over Mt. Hood (6% grade) at 50+ in third gear, it could go faster but too many corners and you know how these trucks have body roll...... I will say that I prefer to drive the truck at 55 mph, for me there is no need for too much speed because I just enjoy driving it.

Back to your engine choice, I like the 6. I love to listen to the engine and tranny. as I'm going thru the gears, it's part of the experience. I believe swapping it for a V8 would take away from this experience. As said before, you could modify a 6 to fulfill your needs....

For driving around town I like my 283 (with 3 speed auto). Runs real smooth and strong. On the highway it's breeze. But for that low end truck feeling power my 292 (with factory 2 speed auto)wins hands down. Only problem it winds up pretty quick even in town driving. Forget about taking it out on the interstate.

My vote would be for the 283 if you can find one and if not get a 292.

Hmm, some very good points here on both sides of the fence. I have alot of time to think about it, as there is nothing pressing me to get this truck restored. I don't even have the time for it right now anyway. Thank you for all the responses. One of you mentioned a clutch issue...I know mine isn't very good, I had better look into that more.

I'm with Iron Clad on this one. I've got a '60 SWB Apache 10, 235 / T5 / spicer 3.54 ratio w/ power-lok. Take it on many trips and keep up with trafic well. Took it to B.C. last june, Vancouver up over Whistler & down the Frazier river. Beauty, eh!

BC59, Do you find that the T5 helps? I have the original 4 speed and have considered swapping it for a T5. Also, is your rear end original? Mine is, and I have 3:90 gears. I was hoping to just change out the gear sets, but I've done some looking and there doesn't really seem to be any gear sets available for my particular rear end.

I have a 261 bored out .030 in my 51 half ton. I am running a gm MY-A6 transmission (4th gear .73 OD) and a Lincoln 9" rear with 3.50 gears. With P235/75R15 tires, 65 mph is 2000 rpm in OD. I have no problems with hills in OD. The hardest I have ever worked this combo was bucking a 50 mph steady headwind when I was in a hurry. I just left the gas pedal floored and would slow to 60 mph going up BIG hills.

I am running a Carter YF carb from a 235, so I know I am 'undercarbureted'. I have split the exhuast and am running glasspacks and 2" pipes, so there is NO exhaust restriction holding be back. I hope to install a Megasquirt FI system someday, in quest of better breathing. If I drive the speed limit and don't have to fight a lot of wind, I get 20-22 mpg on the highway.

I am running the six mainly just to be different and because it was the easiest, quickest way to keep my pickup running. This is my daily ride for the forseeable future, so I am really into quick, easy, and dependable.

Dangit, now I'm leaning towards 235 six with dual carbs dual exhaust, and T5! I can't make up my friggin mind! Ha ha!

Just my .02, but I'd hang onto the 6 and get some goodies to make it a little stronger. Find some different rear gears, and you'll find that 6 singing to you on the road will beat out a V-8 any day. Check out Tom Langdon's site and see some of the things he's done with a 6.
Tramp

Adam,
The T5 works great for me, just have to remember to downshift to 4th for the decent, still running drum brakes!
This was a factory 3sd, swapped to 4 spd SM420 by original owner. It too was a 3.90:1 ratio which I destroyed in my teens.
The spicer / dana rear axle a GMC. With the tires I run (7.00R-15) I have considered the swap back to 3.90 when hauling a camping road trip load up some of the steeper grades. Most of the time I can go as fast as a 52 year old man should go. I do have a '59 261 setting in the shop that I need to get started on!

With an overdrive and perhaps taller tires you should be fine in thouse 4 strong winds with the gears you got. Keep inline my man!

I would keep the six until it develops major problems.

"I would keep the six until it develops major problems."


I think it just did.....

My truck is a '55 1st series. I removed the 235 with 3 speed. Still running the 3.90 rear gears. My friend had a 261 removed from a '62 2 ton truck. I rebuilt the 261, .08 over, mild cam, electronic ignition, dual Carter Weber carbs, dual Fenton exhaust with a T5 transmission. It bolted up to the existing motor mount and bellhousing. This truck is a great runner for the highway or just around town driver.
Larry

I'm looking at a 54 with 235 & 3 on the tree. Been thinking I'd go the same route but prob with automatic and Patrick's gears. just wondering what sort of hp you got out of it and mpg's.

Boy that sounds pretty nice!