The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk Cold Weather Concerns...

Hey, guys. Just moved my '46 two ton from Florida to Colorado and was wondering if I should be concerned about the block freezing and cracking this upcoming winter. It's garage kept, but no heat. Anyone know lowest temp the antifreeze/block can take before trouble starts? It has a '52 235 in it. Here in Denver, it can get to around 15 degrees, but not for more than a day or so. Are block warmers more trouble than they're worth? Thanks.

Adam

Adam, it depends on the ratio of coolant to water. We protect our engines to 40 below. We don't use block heaters unless we need to start them. It's easy to check your coolant for frost protection, with a hydrometer or anti-freeze tester. And yes, you should be concerned, a frozen block is scrap.

make sure it has good coolant in it and it should be good to go...
I believe it would have to get much colder then that to even have a concern unless you had pure water in it... check the coolant and see what the bottom number is...........dont know why you would need a block warmer for that type of temp

sorry Leo, you b eat me to it...lol

Adam, I'll ditto Leo's post. I live in the mountains in Utah and we also test our antifreeze to 40 below with an antifreeze tester. I have a oil dipstick heater on my work truck. I don't use it all the time, just when I know the temp is really going to get cold and I need the truck to start. Our car has a block heater, and we only use it shortly before starting on real cold mornings.

Are you planning on driving the truck this winter, or is it being stored?

Good time for some folks to be reading this tech tip that was written a while back.

Might be of help. Maybe needs update ... if so, email me with what!!!!

Peg

Thanks for the info, fellas. I am planning on driving the truck once or twice a week this winter seeing as how the snow melts by the afternoon here. I will track down an anti-freeze tester and make sure everything is good. The anti-freeze is only a month old and it's the 50/50 pre-diluted kind. If it gets lower than 40 below here, I got a lot more to worry about than my old truck

Adam

Don't forget the drain on the left side of the block. If you do not get all of the water out it may give you trouble.

Block heaters are not for preventing freezing. They are a cold weather starting aid.

Since you plan on driving or starting it at least once a week, you should be fine.
Just be sure to follow the cold weather starting procedures, and make sure you have your truck prepped for winter drives!

Make sure you change oil and get some light weight oil in.

If you plan on starting it be sure and run it til it is completely warmed up so to get rid of condensation in the oil and burn off water in the exhaust system.

Hold on, hold on... what is the cold weather starting procedure? I read the tech tip column on "Winterizing", but I didn't see anything about the starting procedure or changing the oil weight. I have 15w40 diesel rated oil in it now. Will that do? Any other tips for the winter. Again, I will be driving it at least once a week, but never in the snow.

Adam

I'd put either 10-30 or 5-30 in it.

The Cold Weather Operation on page 17 of the 1952 Operator's Manual is what I was referring to. The '52 manual might help with some other engine questions you might have later on.

{Thanks Tim!}

You guys that haven’t changed a tire, boosted a vehicle, or pulled one out of a ditch at minus 30 or better don’t know what you’re missing. Generally minus 25 is the point where if it hasn’t been plugged in for at least a couple hours it won’t go and gas line antifreeze is a must too. Nearly everyone around here has a remote starter and when the temperature drops below minus 15 inside my vehicle the starter will kick in and run it for 5 minutes when it sits outside during the day.

On this topic my father in law has been a farmer all his life and recalls that in the 40’s and 50’s few people had power to their yard to help with warming engine blocks but the truck was the farmer’s lifeline. The stovebolts had a solid reputation that they would start in bitter conditions when Fords and Dodges would refuse which explains why the majority of old farm trucks around here are GM’s.

A 50/50 antifreeze/water mix protects to -37 degrees F. A 70/30 antifreeze/water mix goes to -69 degrees. Straight ethylene glycol without water in it freezes at +9 degrees, so a 70/30 mix is the strongest solution that's reccomended. Block and/or oil dipstick heaters just help the engine start by keeping the engine slightly warmer than the outside temperature. Diesel engines with 15W40 oil run it year-round without oil-related starting problems, so there's no reason to use a lighter weight oil. The original winter oil that was reccomended for your engine was 20W-20, so the 15 weight cold specification has better flow during cold start conditions than when the engine was new.
Jerry

Straight out of the manual:

From +50 deg to +30 deg F SAE 20
+10 deg to +30 deg F SAE 20W
-10 deg to +10 deg SAE 10W
-30 deg to -10 deg SAE 10W plus 10% kerosene

With that said I run 15W40 year around. Oils today are much better than when those specs were written.

And not often mentioned it the matter of availability, the straight weight oils are getting harder and harder to find
around here. None of the farm supplies or auto parts stock them anymore. I can find #30 because they are using it in lawn
mowers still but #10 and #20 I haven't seen for years. I've been looking for a quart of each for to refill my oil cans with.

DG

My '48 is a daily driver and sits outside. We live in Tropical Montana but it can still get to 20 below or lower in the winter. I use 10W-30 all year round.

I have a frost plug heater (500 W, I think) under the intake manifold which is right where you want the heat. It's on a timer and on the coldest days, 4-5 hours is enough. It starts fast, idles well and warms up the defroster faster.

When it gets really cold, I also use a magnetic heater (250 W, I think) on the oil pan. I crawl under the truck to put it on but have a 2x2 with a hole drilled in it to pop the heater off in the morning (to help keep my clothes clean). I leave this heater on all night when it's really cold.

Here's a pic.

Oil Pan Heater.

Good point Jerry. I've seen several instances where people assumed more is better and found out the hard way that the coolant turns to a gel above 70% and quickly destroys engines when it won't flow even on the coldest of days.

Thanks for all the great advice, fellas. Just snowed 4 inches this morning, so I sure am happy I have the truck garage kept. Thanks for the manual links to. There's so much you don't consider with these old trucks...

Adam

If it's parked inside a garage and idle for the winter I would use 100% antifreeze. You could always put a flood lamp under the hood when it gets really cold.

As Jerry pointed out straight antifreeze is not the way to go. I needs to be diluted with water to some extent.

Agreed, straight antifreeze would be a mistake IMHO.

So how much water, a cup, a pint? What does the water do, activate the antifreeze?

No more than 70% coolant to 30% water. Above that ratio it turns to green jello.

50 - 50 mixture is what I've always used. The pre-mix antifreeze that you can buy is 50 -50.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifreeze
that link should explain the why.

the water is the heat transfer fluid - if the truck were not being used, draining the system would be the correct option, but as it will be run occasionally a proper coolant must be used, 100% antifreeze is not a coolant

Bill

You mentioned that the antifreeze is 50-50 and that it's only a month old. As long as you know that for sure, you should be good to go. Whenever I get a different vehicle, I usually change antifreeze myself the first year. That way, I know for sure what it's got.

Why?

good question Vette,

to answer your original question
about how long would it take to have a block problem... just depends, if you had no antifreeze it would take about 3-4 days at 25 F and at -25 it would take about 30 min...says the expert

some say a 50/50 mix should be good for -15.... so as long as you have some antifreeze in it I would not worry about it..

Look at the mixing chart that's on the back of every antifreeze jug out there- - - - -a 50/50 mix is good for -37 degrees! I believe a 70/30 mix takes the freeze point down to something like -69, colder than it gets in Fairbanks Alaska in the middle of winter.
Jerry