The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Interiors interior mirror, 1953

I have the small interior mirror. It looks like it screws into the window divider strip, but I need more precise details.
Thanks.

Me too! Don't think I have the "correct" mirror so will be doing some fabricating to make it work. Any pictures of the "real deal" would be helpful.

This is the reproduction and I believe it's as close to the real deal as I think you will get. Don't think I ever saw an original one still in the truck.
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/134127035
DG

The one in my 50 is threaded.

I don’t have a good pic but you can look at this one.
...pic...

You can use the zoom feature in Picasa to get up close.
It’s the magnifying glass icon with the plus on it.
If I remember right the division bar is threaded, and the center windshield trim piece is a drilled thru hole.

There is a larger clip on mirror on it.
...pic...
Good Luck

Jeesh Tim, that takes all the fun out of it.

Denny, your photo shows the mirror at the top of the windshield. My divider strip has 4 mounting holes plus a bigger hole between the top 2 holes. I think it needs a stem or some sort of bracket to keep the mirror away from the windshield so I can adjust it. Maybe the bracket Tim linked to will do the job.
Thanks.

DADS50,I can't remember when I last talked to you,I think you were trying to help on how to load pictures,on to threads.Anyway,here is some pictures of my 51,3600.I think I told you,my truck looks like a twin,to yours. Have a great weekend.Best Regards,May God Bless you and yours.

Z71 your truck looks great, I like the color. Your truck is the bigger brother to my 1/2 ton.
I hope the video help you figure out how to load pics, it is confusing at first trying to link your pic's. Had to get the old lady to school me on it.
The video is still up on my picasa

1953 panel
Your divider sounds like the set up i have on my 50

Here are some better pics I just loaded
...pic 1
...pic 2
...pic 3
...pic 4
...pic 5

its all old original stuff as far as i can tell

Chevys of the 40's may have that style
http://www.chevsofthe40s.com/detail/6775/Chevrolet_MIRROR_REAR_VIEW_INTERIOR_STAINLESS_STEEL.html

good luck

Thanks DAD, those are excellent pics. Now to find that elusive stem.

The link of the mirror that you posted is the same one sold by most of the other vendors. It does have a stum on the back and it is the same one that is used with the upper bracket that is in my picture link.
The 1950 center post does not have the 5th hole. Does anyone know what the first year was for the center post with the 5th hole???? And if the mirror wasn't installed was there a blank-off screw that filled the hole????
Denny Graham
Sandwich, Il

That's exactly how my '50 is too,it didn't have the mirror although the hole was there and AFAIK mine was original and unmolested.
I actually ordered the separate bracket in error,only to find the mirror screws directly into the bar.

Denny... unless the PO removed a blanking piece,I think it was just left open.
I suppose you could fit a small grommet if it bothers you.

My 1950 has the mirror hole (5th hole)
pic 1

The windshield gasket I ordered has a little cut out for it also. That was the only way I knew there was a upside down to the gasket.
gasket pic

Whoaaa….you say your ’50 has a hole in the center post also John??? I’m saying my ’50 does not have a hole in the center post or in the garnish molding. I bought the truck from the people who bought the truck new in 1950 so I know it is original and know it’s history and I know it was not pieced together from parts from various years.
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/134142375
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/134142377
My thoughts on the hole being in your gasket is that it would only make sense that the gasket would fit all of the early AD’s i.e. pre-1954. So it would only make sense for Steele to include the hole in all of the gaskets. In other words the gasket is universal, made to fit 1947 thru 1953 whether there was a hole for the mirror or not.
I suppose it is possible that the hole and inside rear view mirror was installed as a factory option but I haven’t been able to find any evidence or documentation of that.

This is the kind of stuff that keeps this hobby interesting for me.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Had a chance to do a little searching and in the Factory Assembly Manual sect. 1, sheet 41.02 it shows a Division Reinforcement pn. 3695696. This part has a 5th hole in it. I assume that this drawing would apply to the 1953 model year and can't be relied on for models prior to this.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Just looked at another 1950, 3100 to day, no hole in the garnish, so I took off the garnish and no hole in the Division Reinforcement.
DG

Interesting

May depend on the factory

I was at a car show today and snapped a pic of a 1950 carryall.
It had an interesting mirror that attached to the top of the garnish.

But also had the hole in the division bar

.pic.

Mine has no hole in the division bar, just the garnish strip which isn't original to my truck.

Gus, that's the bracket for the '54-'55 which doesn't have a center post (one-pc windshield). It screws to the header just above the windshield.
Still waiting to hear from my buddy with the '52, 3100 and '53 GMC.
Denny G.

I wonder if there was any difference between weight divisions on trucks?
i.e. The heavier rated trucks didn't have an interior mirror due to the fact some would have bulkheads/box bodies behind the cabs,therefor rendering a mirror useless?
Just a thought....

I think that the inside rear-view mirror was an accessory for all sizes and years of Advance-Design trucks. It was not standard equipment on any size truck.

That thought crossed my mind last week early into this thread John, because my truck is a 3600. But after looking at a couple of 3100's a '50 and a '52 without the 5th hole I had to put that theory aside. I still can't find any continuity in this one.
My only thought is, and I mentioned this before, that the interiour rear view mirror might have been avalable as a factory option. I've got nothing to back this up so like gas, it's just a passing thought.

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Well, talked to Pete this morning and he suggested that it might be part of the deluxe package. Once again, I can't find any documentation that backs that up. Then I pulled up the picture of John's '50 and.......it's a three window????? So we're back to square one again. He's also got a '53 Jimmy deluxe cab that he's gonna take a look at if he gets a chance. I'm interested to see what that looks like.
Tim, your kind of at a disadvantage here cuz yo da "54" guy and ya taint got no examples of the divider post to look at. (Hey prof., hope ya taint grading me on that last sentence construction).
DG

All illustrations of all sizes of trucks in 1947-1955 documents show a driver's side exterior rear view mirror.

No illustration in sales brochures or in Advance-Design Truck Data Books show an interior rear view mirror on any size truck (or even on the Sedan Delivery).

Some of you have seen the interior mirror arm that was an accessory (not an RPO) on a 1954/55 truck.

No Advance-Design Truck Data book shows an option (RPO) for an interior rear-view mirror on any size of truck. And, none of the accessory parts lists show an interior mirror arm/bracket/clip (or even an interior mirror for a truck).

Just to further confuse this situation, the 1953 Accessories Installation Manual does have an entry for a Accessory part number 986875 BRACKET - Inside Rear-View Mirror, Truck . This bracket looks like the 1954 interior rear-view mirror bracket (but it is not - see below).

So, does anyone have any documentation/illustration for this style of clip for 47-53?

Here is indication that a GM 1947-1953 truck bracket/clip exists (section 16 is the truck section of the Master Parts Book): Look for part number 986875 (bracket) unit for 1953 and part number 986441 (clip) unit for 47-53 (probably the clip shown above). Either the clip (with regular mirror - 986440) or the arm (with non-glare mirror - 986651) would/could have been used in 1953.

If you have read this far, you might have noticed that the 1954 unit/bracket/arm and non-glare mirror were different from those listed for 1953.

I'd suspect that an inside mirror would have been a seldom ordered option on a truck, being they were used for hauling that frequently would obstruct any rear view via the back window .... the 51 accessory manual indicates for the car that the interior mirror screws into the center divider and is held by a jam nut .... for a car, but one would assume the trucks were the same and that susequent years used the same design, GM had that habit

Bill

Option? = RPO from the factory - not shown in any RPO list (Truck Data Book or RPO list).

Accessory? = installed after-market by dealer, owner, other - probably the correct answer

Suspect, Suppose, Speculate, Assume, Guess, Opine (all are allowed).

Why would they add a different design of clip/bracket in 1953?

Clear as mud?

maybe a few creative PO's [or dealers] in the past adapted the car mirror to the truck?

I'd guess about 90% of the pre-72 trucks I've encountered did not have inside mirrors, but did have both outside ones - it wasn't until federal law started requiring 2 mirrors, either left and right outside or left outside and interior, that inside mirrors were commonly available, maybe 54?

Bill

Here are two pics of my 53, if you look closely you can see it has only the four mounting holes. Pic # 1 , pic # 2

Tim - note that "options" don't have to be "RPO"s, and that "accessory" is a sub-class of "option" .... interesting that list of options for the TF years doesn't show an interior mirror, but the dealer display of accessories shows one

Bill

I don’t think there is any debating that the driver side mirrors were standard by this time period.
And I agree that the inside RV mirror was definitely an accessory. I can’t help but wonder if all the RPO‘s are covered in the manuals that we have access to.

Wow, that 986875 bracket is something that I hadn’t seen before. Thanks Tim, I don’t have an accessory installation manual for the 53’s so that’s a new one on me. I thought that was strictly a ‘54 feature. I’ve got the reproduction bracket for my ’54 right here next to me and it looks to be an exact copy in profile of the one pictured in that illustration

That ‘Z’ bracket reproduction that’s sold by the vendors could have be part of the original accessory package. The ‘50, 3100 that I looked at earlier this weekend has been in my friends driveway untouched for 15 years. It probably sat many more before he got it. It has that same design ‘Z’ bracket that is now completely lost all of its plating. It‘s totally rust covered so the part has been around for many decades for certain, possibly even 60 years.
All of the accessories that GM sold for dealer installation were designed for ease of installation. I can’t imagine that they would have sold an accessory interior mirror that required removal of the front chrome strip (which held the nuts) and drilling thru the rubber and inside garnish to install the stud mounted mirror.

All of this still doesn’t explain the 5th hole in the welded center reinforcement shown in the Assembly Manual.

Section 16 is gonna take a while for me to decipher, and I’ll get to that right after the dog, the cat and me wake up from our noon nap!! Don’t we make a cozy trio!!

Oops, something I forgot about before I doze off. In Sct. 1, sheet 41.02, 3000-4000-6000 RD CABS & COWLS With Windshied? What does the RD stand for?
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Another theory

My 1950 with the mirror 5th hole was made in Oakland California

Here is a pic of another members 1950 oakland truck
...stovebolt pic...
looks like he has the mirror 5th hole.
I’m not sure where Jockbolters truck was made, but his 50 has it.

Could it be that even in 1950 that California would require the mirror by law?
So the factory would thread the division bar for it.

I know it doesn’t much matter,

don’t want this thread to go the way of the proper 216 gray paint.

Any way the mirror is not adequate, it too small. That's why I use the larger clip mirror

As far I can decipher,my truck was built in Georgia.
Whether it was specifically built for the Ca. market,I guess I'll never know,
AFAIK it did however spend most of it's working life in Hesperia Ca.

I agree,ultimately it's not a huge issue for me either,but I have enjoyed bouncing ideas and theories about.
It's a bit like the door lock discussions.

And please,just call me Jock,it'll also be easier on your typing finger!

= "right drive", for export

I think DADS50 hit the nail, I wouldn't be suprised Calif had mirror requirements before the feds, and I'm positive different plants "bent the specs" regularly on almost everything, they all got their outside supplied parts from different places and micro-precision wasn't big back then

Bill

MMM, I didn't look Denny but RD usually stands for right hand drive.
I'm trying to stay out of the mirror thread but I can't help myself.
Denny, your probably right about GM..."I can't imagine they would have sold an asscessory interior mirror that required removal of the front chrome strip..." and I agree.

But it would make sense to punch an extra hold in the interior metal strip that could be removed....then a mirror with a stem mounted to it, with a jam nut on the stem. Then put the vertical strip back up and wal-la you have a review mirror. Makes sense to me as there would be very little stem sticking through the back of the metal strip and not necessarily needing a hole in the rubber.(but of coarse you could drill an indention)
I have two mirrors that both have the stem on the back of them. Its a personal thought but I don't believe the stem was ever intended to go all the way through the rubber. The mirror stems are threaded very little,see picture, and if the stem went through the rubber there would not be any threads to put the jam/lock nut on. The flat part on the stem suggest it did not screw into the outer bar but was put through the inter piece and tighten up.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r19/LutherParris/52Panel/000_0263.jpg

to top it all off I thought I had two complete set ups that were alike. I sent the interior piece with the extra hole, and outside chrome piece, to a fellow bolter.... while the one I kept had only 4 holes in it. Now, is that stupid or not!!!

..as Sonny and Cher sang.."and the beat goes on"!!

Right Drive, who’d have thought, thanks Bill.
Why those little details? Guys, those are what make an otherwise boring subject come alive. Like you say John, "ultimately it's not a huge issue" and if your object is simply to see what's in the back of the truck then you could hang the medicine chest door from a couple of hooks screwed thru the roof. Some people are only interested in keeping one of these trucks running as long as the shell looks original as it passes by. There is a big difference between Practicality and Preservation.

There is a certain segment of us who‘s goal is “Preservation“. When a new truck like my '54 comes into my life I feel in a small way like an archeologist, digging up the past. Learning about and documenting what I find is my way of preserving and passing a little history on to the kids that aren‘t even born yet.

What I’m trying to say is, what use would the Science & Industry or Natural History Museums be if we put a blonde wig on the cave mans wife simply because we assumed she had hair of some sort, or fit Barney up with a nice new set of false teeth because we thought it would improve his smile. We could make much better use of the pyramids if we opened up the insides so we could host a rock concert or soccer game, much better than wasting all that room just to house one guy. King Tut’s mask might look better to the California crowd if it were chromed instead of gold….and those chariots would handle a lot better with wire spooked wheels and Michelin’s rather than those wooden wheels…. well think you get the picture.
I find the evolution of all things from the natural world to the machines that man made quite interesting. I depend or trust in those people that gathered up those collections to preserve those thing just as they were created.
Alvin, the reason I had some doubts about only putting a machine thread in the reinforcement was that there would only be enough thickness for one or two threads so like the four 10-32 screws they would need a nut captured in the front chrome strip.
Ah these little details, they do make a difference to some of us.

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

And my buddy did go out of his way to look at his 1953 GMC five window after lunch. And he reported that it has the 986875 bracket that Tim linked us to earlier in the ‘53 accessory installation manual. He didn’t check to see if it had a deluxe day night mirror mounted to it but he said he would take a picture of it tomorrow. And even thought it’s a deluxe cab, it does not have the 5th hole in the window divider post.
Bout the only idea we have left at this point is the California connection. I’m not sure if California was as safety conscious back in the early 50’s as they’ve become today and I‘d bet the legislators didn’t have all that much clout with GM back then either. I do have to say that in 1965 when I was stationed at McClellan AFB in Sacramento, CA, in order to have a car on base I we had to attend a California Highway Patrol safety class and have a safety sticker. They were quite safety conscious even back then so it’s possible that the state may have mandated inside rear view mirrors for vehicles sold in state 10 or 15 years earlier.

...well, I figured it out. I'm going to drill my own 5th hole, install my mirror with the stem and call it original : )
Hey, got to have some humor in here.

Now, would someone tell me if that 5th hole is exactly between the top two holes. I'm read to drill.

My 53 was assembled in Oakland, CA and it doesn't have the fifth hole!

There goes that theory...

Here is a pic of a McClellan AFB Base sticker off the front bumper off My DADS50
...pic... Early 70's

I guess most of it is closed now, I probably wouldn't recognize any of it now even though I spent more than a year there in the com center before shipping off to the far east. I know for sure that I wouldn't recognize any of the Califonia girls that I met while in uniform. But that was a hundred years ago.....and I'd rather remember them as they were when they were 21 years old.

DG

Denny,I get your point,I wasn't trying to dismiss this as an unimportant subject.
I understand there are folks that frequent here who are interested in the finer details of a restoration.
I just like the fact we can discuss these things at length here and hopefully throw up a few answers too.

Also,A RHD Chevy Pick-up would be a rare beast even over here!
They never officially imported them to Blighty.
I've only ever seen one,ironically about 5 miles from me at a supermarket.
It was a South African model.(Just wish I'd had my camera with me.)

Archers Peach Schnapps were using it as a promo vehicle.
The guys in attendance had no idea about the truck,it was just another display 'item' to them.....Heathens!
I wonder where it is now?