The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk Stainless Steel fasteners. Too excessive?

I am to the point of reassembling my '54 3100. The frame is painted and the funds for new suspension parts is almost here. I almost bolted the 2 crossmembers into the frame today but started 2nd guessing the bolts.

On previous little projects I would just run to NAPA from the few bolts I needed. but I have had some issues with the bolts rusting up pretty quick, bad enough that it took an impact a while to get it loose.

So on this project, with the quality and "flashyness" being a little higher I was pondering useing stainless hardware (bolts, washers, nuts)

Is this a little too overkill? I was thinking using them for all the frame/chassis type things (exposed to the elements) and then possibly on the interior also.

my research shows that you can get pretty much everything 1-1/2'' and down for around $.30 each.

only other concern would be strength. I'm under the impression that most stainless grades are similar in strength to grade 5. is this sufficent for anything but spring hangers and the like?

thanks
-LGringo

LGringo,

I went for overkill when restoring my Suburban. I used almost all stainless Hardware from Totally Stainless

As you stated, most of their SS is grade-5, but they also have grade-8 equivalent ss hardware.

They also have very nice black anodized ss hardware that matches nicely the color and head-type to hold the inner-to-outer fenders and the attachment of fenders and shroud to the radiator support (47-55).

They sell by piece, in quantity, and in pre-packaged kits by component/vehicle (I think that Jim Carter might resell their pre-packaged kits).

I also found that MSC Stainless had a wide variety of hardware at good prices (and good service).

The cruel fact with Stainless is the harder it is the more likely it is to also rust. So just because you are using stainless doen't mean you are not going to see rust spots around the bolts. Fenders and areas where you want it to shine and always look good without a lot of torque issues,use only stainless that you can't pick up with a magnet or you know for sure the Stainless content in them. Go to a Screw and Bolt supply house, they tend to be a lot more knowledgeable about the grades than your average hardware store clerk. Another cruel fact is the higher the grade of stainless the more $$ expect to spend. At $0.30 a bolt you either have a very sweet deal or a low grade.

SS has varying amounts of chromium added to form a corrosion resistant layer to the surface - the primary problem with SS fasteners is the surface protection can be galled when they're tightened, especially into the mild steel cage/weld nuts, but even into SS nuts, and you'll find them siezed in when you try to remove them later ..... they should really have a bit of never sieze smeared on the threads, a messy operation

Bill

FWIW, I painted all my fasteners that were on the chassis and not easily visible. All my fender bolts and bolts under the hood are stainless, which mostly came from suppliers such as Carter`s. A number of the fasteners are original that I cleaned up and re-painted.

Bill and Leo hit the nail on the head. About Stainless rusting and spotting (its not shiny anyway unless you polish it) and also Leo by reusing some of his.
That is exactly what I did. I even put some stainless on the panel and then decided they just didn't look good so I went with painted.... and the good thing is we can touch them up easy and keep them looking good.

...and yes, the good stainless is not cheap. I had some stainless that would not even stick in one of the magnetic parts tray. Those I don't need!

FWIW, There are many types of SS. The two most common are 303 and 304. 303 does have some steel/iron in it and over time it will rust in spots. 304 does not much if any steel/iron in it, and does not rust.

Larry

Thanks for the input guys.

While apperance is important, my main concern is keeping the bolts from rusting up so fast ( i know with anything rust will be there over time). for example, the bolt holding on the frame crossmembers will probably never be seen, but if they ever need to be removed for some reason I would like to keep them rust free, and also to help keep rust away from my freshly painted frame.

I do like the idea of painting originals (or non SS replacements). I like the idea of being able to touch them up easy, where SS would prolly just need to be replaced after pitting.

Like most of yall, I want it to look good, but I really just want to be able to drive this thing when ever, where ever, not worrying about hurting the appearance of some bolts.

But if the SS will resist the weather good enough for the unseen areas, paint the seen area bolts I think price would not be too bad. I know its a WHOLE truck, but right now i have every bolt out of the truck, bagged & tagged, and they all fit in a shoe box. so even SS everywhere would not be too bad in the big picture.

Maybe I'll just use all SS flat washer, keep the rust out of contact with my frame/body parts!

thanks
-LGringo

Larry, all stainless is about 60% iron [might be why it's called steel?] with varying amounts of chromium, nickel and other elements, it's carbon content that varies to near zero - the difference in the 300 series is mainly carbon and nickel content, not a lot of difference in corrosion resistance, and no SS is totally corrosion proof

Bill

There is a whole bunch of types of stainless, like 50 or more categories, and 316 stainless is one of the most corrosion resistant, and commonly available stainless. I know this because I have been dealing with it for the last six months at work. (pain in the ###) I don't know if I would use stainless for anything requiring strength or safety such as frame members, it really isn't all that strong.

Use a can of clear coat. I think I use Rustoleum. Once your done installing, a quick couples of passes with the clear coat and those new nuts and bolts stay shiny. One can of clear coat is about $6 and trust me, you can spray a LOT of bolts.

Jeff

308,316,404,416 etc. are all good if made in the USA & Europe. Asia, India etc. are just plain junk. Exellent quality stainless are around $0.50 to $4.75 per bolt depending on size and grade. When putting stainless bolts in disimilar metals they will cause a galvanic action and seize up. You must use some type of thread Anti Seize or use some Lock Tite Thread Locker in the Blue or Green colors.
Galding is a common problem with Stainless nuts and bolts unless you use thread compound of some kind. If you ever get a nut or bolt seized up mix some Valve grinding compound and light Machine Oil together and use a acid brush to put some around the threads let it soak in then try tighting or loosing the nut or bolt back an forth adding Oil and Valve compound as you go. 99% of the time you can free it up. Just got to have PATIENTS.
62Blue
Don

I know I wouldn't. Where you need fasteners to really do their job, like drivetrain, suspension, and frame stuff I always use normal stuff that was/is designed to do the job.

Although...I know you can get stainless good enough, but not many of us would have the money to pay for it. I worked at a shipyard and one of my jobs was helping assemble torpedo tubes, everything was rust/corrosion resistant including all the fasteners, and most of them were very high quality as you would expect... None of them were what you find at the hardware store.

As mentioned earlier always use never seeze / anti seize of some sort on stainless fasteners to help prevent galling.

One thing most people don't understand is stainless steel is "stain LESS steel" not "stain free steel"

Grigg

It sounds kind of stupid but what if a corrosion resistant material was used for just the flat washers?

This would keep the large 1 inch diameter circles of rust (from cheap washers) from being smashed against the nicely painted frame.

Would SS washers with NAPA (or other generic/bulk source) grade 8 bolts/nuts lead to dissimilar metals corrosion?

or is there another material that is corrosion resistant besides SS?


(I am a youngster - reason for the questions showing my inexperience)

Thanks a Bunch
-LGringo

loco - the only solution is to keep everything absolutely dry so there is no electrolyte to cause the oxidization of the iron .... useing SS washers doesn't take care of the other side where you'd need another washer to shield your 'nice frame' - and then there's the edges of the hole where the threads will come in contact .... one solution is to use galvanized fasteners, the zinc doesn't rust, although galvanized lock washers aren't available because the galvanizing would just crack apart with the distortion .... the problem is partly one of dissimilar metals, but the corrosion process is a complex thing

Bill

Don't see any advantage to only using stainless washers, just use good quality steel stuff, paint it all and get on with it....

Grigg

Zinc plated fasteners are an option, they are fairly corrosion resistant and have the correct strength, the zinc coating is not as thick as galvanized and doesn't flake off. I'm not sure what grade to use on frame members you would have to do some research. Grade 5 is pretty strong and can take a little more flexing than grade 8 but I don't know which would be best for that application, plus they seem to paint well...

If you use galvanized, don't forget to acid wash it before painting it, otherwise the paint won't stick to it.