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| | | | Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,132 Shop Shark | | Shop Shark Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,132 | I am going to try to install the dreaded headliner. Tim L advises to start in the back and install the cardboard pieces working forward and ending up over the windshield. I have the rearmost headliner bow installed with the channel for the first piece of cardboard facing forward. Lets assume I get the first piece installed without learning any new cuss words and it fits in the rear and side channels like it should. Do I now install the next bow with the channel facing backwards so it can pick up the front edge of the just installed cardboard? Or do I install the second bow with the channel facing forward? If so then the front edge of the first piece of cardboard has no channel to go into. What holds it up? Seems to me the bows should have a channel facing both backward and forward to accommodate each successive piece. Hopefully someone who has done this install will jump in and educate me. Tim?
Weeds | | | | | Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 4,215 Moderator | | Moderator Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 4,215 | Sorry I can't contribute but I'm all ears. | | | | | Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 31 Wrench Fetcher | | Wrench Fetcher Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 31 | Weed
All channel face forward.
That was the way thay was in when i took them out.
Steve | | | | | Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 29,269 Bubba - Curmudgeon | | Bubba - Curmudgeon Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 29,269 |
Weeds, Steve is right.
The opening of each bow is facing to the front. The bow should fit over the rearward piece of cardboard. You have to screw the bow in, through the piece of cardboard.
Are there holes in your bow?
Do you see the holes in the roof cross-brace (the screws in the bows go through the cardboard and are screwed into the holes in the roof cross brace).
After the bow has been screwed in, you insert the next piece of cardboard into the slot in the bow (and into the slots in the side rails).
If this description is poor, email me your phone number and I can call you in about an hour.
Please let us know how well the roof panels fit and from whom you bought them.
| | | | | Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,132 Shop Shark | | Shop Shark Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,132 | Steve and Tim, good description. I think I got it. There are holes in the bows as well as the roof braces. At this point I don't know how they are going to fit. I think I got them from Classic Parts nee Chevy Duty. I have had them for over 4 years trying to avoid having to install them. I will let you know how it goes.
Weeds | | | | | Joined: May 2007 Posts: 321 Shop Shark | | Shop Shark Joined: May 2007 Posts: 321 | If I remember correctly, the cardboard fits into the bow and then it's held up by securing the cardboard under the next bow. I took pictures of mine and left the bows in my truck when I blasted and painted it so I wouldn't lose them to get confused. I called Lisa at Carters here recently to order the headliner and she said that they had lost their templates, so the material now comes UNCUT! I'm not sure if this is better or worse! Let me know how yours fits. I'll be installing mine within the next month. I just dropped my seats off at the upholsterer | | | | | Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,132 Shop Shark | | Shop Shark Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,132 | Its just as I suspected, nothing fits. I have 3 pieces that measure way too wide and 39 inches long. In trying to fit up the rearmost piece I discovered that with the cardboard in the rear bow the cardboard is about 1/2" short of reaching the 2nd roof brace. I think I will make a pattern out of tagboard and cut the cardboard to fit to the 1st roof brace and go on from there. There are 2 smaller pieces one of which obviously fits above the windshield and the other one might go just in back of the windshield piece. I have 2 complete sets of bows so if I have to I can use a bow on each roof brace. It won't look stock but the Sub is not stock anyway. So to answer your question Tim these are just dyed brown chunks of cardboard that have to be custom cut to fit and Steve thanks for your input also. Cruising weather is just around the corner so I better get to it. Thanks guys for your help.
Weeds | | | | | Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,132 Shop Shark | | Shop Shark Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,132 | It took two of us almost 3 hours to make tagboard patterns and cut and fit the rearmost cardboard piece into place and then secure it under the bow. This has to be done working on your knees and sometimes flat on your back. Hopefully now that we got the hang of it the next pieces will go faster.
Weeds
| | | | | Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 31 Wrench Fetcher | | Wrench Fetcher Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 31 | Weed
I was going to order a sub headliner and put in my panel.
But do you think i just need to cut my own and be done. | | | | | Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,132 Shop Shark | | Shop Shark Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,132 | jos48chevy, I am not familiar with the insides of a panel. Does your panel have the channels on each side at the top like the suburban for the cardboard to fit into? If not you could probably make a headliner out of just about anything. You would also need the bows to use the cardboard setup. I don't think the panels originally had full headliners but someone more knowledgeable than me will jump in here and set me straight. Sorry I can't be more help.
Weeds | | | | | Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 31 Wrench Fetcher | | Wrench Fetcher Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 31 | Weed, I have all the bows and channels out of suburban and the roof is same in both. Just though it would be less time on knees.
Steve | | | | | Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,132 Shop Shark | | Shop Shark Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,132 | Steve I'd say go for it. It really finishes the inside off and I suspect it would also quiet down all the rattles and squeeks. | | | | | Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 14,522 Moderator: Welcome Centre, Southern Bolters, Legion Hall | | Moderator: Welcome Centre, Southern Bolters, Legion Hall Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 14,522 | Steve, weeds, here is a pic of my panel before I "finished" tearing it apart. As you can see the material was placed between the "bars". Hope this helps. http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r19/LutherParris/52Panel/000_0019.jpg | | | | | Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,132 Shop Shark | | Shop Shark Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,132 | Alvin, It appears to me that the bows in your panel are different from my Sub. Yours look like they have a slot on both sides for the cardboard to go into and are permanently spotwelded in place. The Sub bows are screwed in place and as Tim and Steve have said hold the cardboard up. What was your headliner made of? It doesn't look like cardboard.
Weeds | | | | | Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 14,522 Moderator: Welcome Centre, Southern Bolters, Legion Hall | | Moderator: Welcome Centre, Southern Bolters, Legion Hall Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 14,522 | Sorry Weeds, I should have been more specific. My truck started its life as a delivery panel in Iowa. That said it must have been a "plain Jane" as the "headliner" was some sort of "jute" backing with a vinyl like face on it and was "glued" between the top bows with something that looked like black tar. The sides were covered with some "cardboard" that covered, and was screwed to, the upright post. Here is a pic of the material front and back. If you would like a close up of the top bows I can get one as I have not done the interior yet. http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r19/LutherParris/52Panel/000_0020.jpg | | | | | Joined: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,517 'Bolter | | 'Bolter Joined: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,517 | Alvin,Weeds,and all others, The suburbans have cardboard headliners from front to back. Theyre fixed in place with the "bows" like Weeds is speaking of.
Panels only have the 2 pieces of headliner(cardboard) above the driver area,similar to a pick-up. The rear cargo area of the panels have the textured,canvas like material glued directly to the metal for sound deadening purposes only.
At least thats what iv seen in all the orig. trucks ive looked at.
Im sure TCLederman(the encyclopedia brittanica of ad trucks)will come along to set this straight. | | | | | Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,780 Master Gabster | | Master Gabster Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,780 | The panel had only two sections like Marty said, however I am sure that if you used the bows from a suburban in the panel it will work. I think the only problem will be the door checks. The door checks on the suburban allow for the headliner to fit properly, the panel checks are larger and and I think they protrude into the headliner area. You can use the suburban checks, but you will not be able to open the rear doors the full 180 degrees only 90 degrees. Maybe someone could modify the door checks to work. | | | | | Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 29,269 Bubba - Curmudgeon | | Bubba - Curmudgeon Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 29,269 | George,
I am fairly certain that the rear door checks for a panel would not interfere with the Suburban headliner.
And, the panel headliner is completely different from the Suburban headliner, as described by Marty & Alvin.
However, if the same same side-to-side metal roof "struts" are used in the panel trucks as are used in the suburban, AND, if the same front-to rear "side channels" (used in the suburban for the side edges of the roof liner pieces) are in the panel (I think that I see them in Alvin's photo), then the suburban roof liner pieces should be able to be installed (holes would have to be drilled in the appropriate side-to-side struts).
| | | | | Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,780 Master Gabster | | Master Gabster Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,780 | George,
I am fairly certain that the rear door checks for a panel would not interfere with the Suburban headliner. I guess I figured since they were not original to the suburban the panel door checks would not clear.
And, the panel headliner is completely different from the Suburban headliner, as described by Marty & Alvin. I agree, the headliner is completely different, the roofline is not. If the original suburban top bows are used to replace the existing two panel top bows they should end up looking like a factory install..
However, if the same same side-to-side metal roof "struts" are used in the panel trucks as are used in the suburban, AND, if the same front-to rear "side channels" (used in the suburban for the side edges of the roof liner pieces) are in the panel (I think that I see them in Alvin's photo), then the suburban roof liner pieces should be able to be installed (holes would have to be drilled in the appropriate side-to-side struts). We are in agreement. The only differences that I see is the way the headliner is attached , but that should be remedied with exchanging top bows from the suburban to the panel. What I am not clear about is if the side channels are already installed in the panel. Weeds, do you have some updated pictures of your install? | | | | | Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 29,269 Bubba - Curmudgeon | | Bubba - Curmudgeon Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 29,269 | George, Look at Alvin's first photo-link. I think I can see the side channel (as found on the Suburban) - I am surprised that it is there but it looks like it would work? | | | | | Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,780 Master Gabster | | Master Gabster Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,780 | George, Look at Alvin's first photo-link. I think I can see the side channel (as found on the Suburban) - I am surprised that it is there but it looks like it would work? Alvin, what do you think. | | | | | Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 14,522 Moderator: Welcome Centre, Southern Bolters, Legion Hall | | Moderator: Welcome Centre, Southern Bolters, Legion Hall Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 14,522 | George, I need to take a CLOSE look at the overhead pieces. Everyone is correct in saying the panels had the material glued to the top as one of my pictures showed the face and back of it.
The SIDE had what I definitely believe to be the original cardboard pieces. I actually have one or two that was decent that I kept for latter reference. I do need to look. At first I thought the SIDE cardboard panels went OVER the side struts and were screwed to the struts...which I am fairly sure, but I will check to make sure they were not stuck "between" the struts.
....and of coarse, there was the "board" of oak that was mounted half way up in the middle of the side... and bolted to the side just behind the driver seat and at the back door.
I will have some time tomorrow so I'll investigate and clarify.
EDIT: I also have a couple pics around here somewhere that I took of the inside when I bought it. It was a mess and a "wide" shot. It may, or may not, tell us something to....so I'll look for those and scan them in.
Last edited by Achipmunk; 03/22/2011 3:42 AM.
| | | | | Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 29,269 Bubba - Curmudgeon | | Bubba - Curmudgeon Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 29,269 |
Alvin,
I am referring to the side-channel on the sides of the interior roof. In your first photo-link there appears to be a side-channel just below the edge of the hanging-down roof-lining material.
| | | | | Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,132 Shop Shark | | Shop Shark Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,132 | | | | | | Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,780 Master Gabster | | Master Gabster Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,780 | So, are you leaving any pictures or notes for the lucky future owner to find when he restores this again in 2070?  Thanks for the detailed pictures! | | | | | Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 29,269 Bubba - Curmudgeon | | Bubba - Curmudgeon Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 29,269 | Looks good, Weeds. One difference I notice between your parts and mine is that the metal strips/bows are shorter. My bows "tuck into" the side channels. Good luck with the "compound cuts". Looking forward to seeing the next report(s). | | | | | Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 14,522 Moderator: Welcome Centre, Southern Bolters, Legion Hall | | Moderator: Welcome Centre, Southern Bolters, Legion Hall Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 14,522 | Weeds, you still impress me and my mentor!! Good work pal. Tim, great job you have there as well. | | | | | Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 95 Wrench Fetcher | | Wrench Fetcher Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 95 | Headliner head bangers;Just make plywood bows that match the contour of the roof and stick down past the metal bows and then you can staple/nail in any-kind of material or fabric.
Sully
| | | | | Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,132 Shop Shark | | Shop Shark Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,132 | | | | | | Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 29,269 Bubba - Curmudgeon | | Bubba - Curmudgeon Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 29,269 |
Weeds,
Nice job.
Thanks for the photos.
| | | | | Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 14,522 Moderator: Welcome Centre, Southern Bolters, Legion Hall | | Moderator: Welcome Centre, Southern Bolters, Legion Hall Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 14,522 | Weeds, your a genius. GREAT job. Your still my inspiration! | | | | | Joined: Nov 2001 Posts: 438 'Bolter | | 'Bolter Joined: Nov 2001 Posts: 438 | Weeds
Great job. having lots of friends to help is a blessing. Any chance you saved the patterns? I have a 49 burb which will need headliner somewhere in the future.
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. - Thomas Edison
Things may come to those who wait...but only the things left by those who hustle."-Abraham Lincoln
| | | | | Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,132 Shop Shark | | Shop Shark Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,132 | Tim, Alvin, I keep telling you guys don't look too close. It looks a lot better in the pictures than it actually does. 49B, I didn't save the patterns. I reused the tagboard as I made each successive piece so there was nothing left but taped together scraps. I suspect every Sub is a little different so I don't think the patterns would have done you much good anyway. Thanks for the compliments Burb and Panel addicts.
Weeds | | | | | Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 335 Shop Shark | | Shop Shark Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 335 | I have bows in a 61 burb i'm gonna scrap if anybody needs them! | | | | | Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 335 Shop Shark | | Shop Shark Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 335 | What do you guys use for cardboard? it measures 52 inches across the burb, and i'd like to find a hardboard that was that wide so i can do the whole back with one sheet. | | | | | Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,132 Shop Shark | | Shop Shark Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,132 | DThela, I hope you can find a sheet of something to your liking thats 52" wide However I can't imagine doing it with one sheet. There are 2 compound curves at the back corners and an area just above the doors that has a weird dip down to it. It took 3 of us to put mine in. Its going to get crowded in there with 5 or 6 guys trying to put up one sheet. More power to you and I hope you can get it done.
Weeds | | | | | Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 335 Shop Shark | | Shop Shark Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 335 | the problem is the distance needed side to side is 52" and anything in panels i find to make a headliner is 4' x 8'. guess i have to do individual pieces side to side with joints. | | |
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