The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Panels 'N Burbs Panel and Burb Heater questions

As I get closer to getting my panel on the road I am beginning to think about other things that need to be done, such as my heater. The heater that came with it is a recirculating heater. I don’t know when it was installed, but it looks like the standard dealer option but with a GMC emblem instead to of a bowtie. I was mentioning this to the previous owner the other day and he told me that the heater never really worked well, to the point that he rode with a blanket over the seat back for winter use.
This could be for several reasons. Most of the weather strips and seals were shot allowing cold air to get in. There was no floor mat or insulation on the floor and firewall of the cab and the headliner and door panels were basically in shreds. Perhaps restricted flow to the heater core. Or perhaps the heater simply was not up to the task. I’ve torn the heater apart and see that the fan is not the typical squirrel cage variety I usually see in automotive applications, but 2 bladed fan, which perhaps simply didn’t move enough air.
I have added an insulated firewall cover, new floor mat with insulation, a new headliner and new door panels with seals for the handles and have replaced all seals and weather strips. The cargo area will be finished in a manner yet to be determined. So before I spend a lot of time or money on the exhisting heater, I thought I would post this to get feedback from other panel and burb owner. I am located in Maryland where the winters don’t tend to be extremely harsh, so I don’t expect sub zero weather, but from past experience with a van, I know that it takes quite a bit of heat to make the big box comfortable.
So what I would like to find out from others with this type heater is how well do your heaters do the job? What suggestions would you make for someone essentially starting from scratch?

I had one of the heaters you describe [the same "generic" dealer ones were common up to 59] in a 57 pickup and it did OK, but no heater will really warm up a panel, there's just too much space ... what I've done in the past is hang a curtin across behind the seats, let the cargo area stay cold, but back in the day there were aftermarket under seat auxiliary heaters some put in panels, burbs, and station wagons, which I plan on doing in my current project 57

Bill

I think that Bill has spot-lighted the unfortunate facts about any heater in a Panel truck (and the truth is truer as the outside temperature gets lower). It is simply harder to heat the inside of a panel truck (or Suburban).

Three years ago, I drove a 1954 1/2 ton pickup in 8 degrees F for about 200 miles from NJ to Albany, NY. The pickup had a recirculating heater, no door seals, and no window/vent seals. With the heater on high, I had to take off my coat, gloves, and hat. I was, as they say. "warm as toast" (60+ mph and windy).

What a difference the size of the cab makes.

This is something I have never even thought about 'till now.

I can remember running my 52 GMC truck, before I sold it, in the winter, heater howling, 6 volt motor on a 12 volt system and having that warm and toasty feeling as I motored along the road.

So that is a just a dream now with the stock heater system in my suburban? It makes sense with the extra space and all....

Sniffle sniffle....

I have planned to hang a curtain behind the seats, more for privacy than for conservation heat. I have also tinkered with the idea of an auxilary heater, but now think I may move that up on my list of priorities.

..."its harder to heat the inside of a panel"


Well, it will also be harder to COOL it to. Ned, after lots of consideration, and looking the cost to fix the heater cores/valves ect....and then have to put A/C in it later, I have just about convinced myself to put the Heat & A/C system in mine that fits under the dash. If the A/C has a hard time cooling then I guess the same logic applies to it as the heater...hang a curtain up in the Summer same as the Winter.
You can sink a good bit of money in the regular heater system,money that could go toward the hole system.

Not for everyoneI know but another option you may want to consider. I really like the system that fits the contour under the dash.....just my nickel on this.

Thanks Alvin.. I've also considered the heat/ac system. But a bit concerned about driving it with the 216; only so many ponies to go around.

Alvin,

SC is much hotter than VA and I had the advantage of the driver's side air "scoop" in my 1948 1/2 ton panel. In 1969 (when I had the panel), air-conditioning was a luxury. We got used to the VA heat, but I do not know about summer heat in SC.

Tim, 95-100 a lot of days here...plus the older I get, and my little short wife, the hotter it "seems" to get.

I know about those driver side vents. Back early 70's I had a 50 with the vent and man did it feel good..... about midnight and then only with a cold Pabst in my hand! Back then we "didn't miss what we had never had"....AirConditioning. I never had air in any truck I owned until 1997. Then I found out what I had been missing. WHEN I get the system in the panel I'll let you guys know how it works for sure. Hopefully THIS summer.

I thought about the rear mounted heater in a panel or suburban.Would the water pump of the 216,235,261 be able to handle pumping to the rear of the vehicle ? Would some type of auxiliary pump in-line need to be installed ?

Tim

I put one in for a friend in an old ford van that had a small 6 banger. It worked very good.

I canibalized an old dash unit for the parts.

Funny that you would ask that, Tim,

My 1960 261 came out of a full-sized school bus. The water pump has extra hose ports/plugs, and I always wondered if they were for plumbing a rear heater in the bus?

when I did it.. I just hooked the rear heater in series to the front.

tclederman - yes on the extra pump fittings - in my big bus project I'm using the core from a passenger area heater of a TF schoolie as part of my hydronic heat setup, and it was plumbed that way - a huge core too [maybe 10x20], in relation to the normal cab heaters in our trucks, so obviously no problem with the pump handling the distance or extra volume of water

what I plan for the project panel is a core about the size of the one under the dash inset into the double lower sidewall behind the driver seat, T-eed off the existing lines

Bill

It's in place, but not plumbed yet: Mid-'50s Buicks and Pontiacs had an under-seat heater, under the driver's seat.
I got one, had the core repaired, and mounted it under the driver's seat in my '61 Suburban. I also bought a 3-speed heater switch from American AutoWire for it. It throws heat out forward toward the driver's seat, to the side under the passenger seat, and to the rear. I had to trim the shroud a bit to fit the contours of the Suburban floor, but it looks good.
I bought a new motor for the fan from my local Car Quest... it's a generic GM fan motor that they used in a lot of vehicles, including trucks up through the '70s and possibly '80s.

In my '54 Buick, that sucker put out a LOT of heat. I'm expecting great things from it in the Suburban--especially in conjunction with the stock Deluxe heater.

-Brad

I visited with wrenchbender and his partner today.They told me to go with the same heater Brad described,but was told 1948-down chevy car had these heaters .


Tim

hey guys was reading on your thread a I'm toying with a 12 volt heater unit that runs off cigarette lighter to help warm things up. Kevin

How does that heater do?.. I've thought about something of the sort as an aux heater.

Guys,
I used a stock GMC/Chevy recirc kind,bypassed the mixer valve,put a 12v motor from napa,at reostat retro switch and it will melt your toes at 10d outside.You can remove the chevy sticker and get a GMC one also.

Here is a "Blinding Flash of the Obvious."

Next time you are at a car show puchase a large roll of foil backed bubble wrap and line the cab with it using spay adhesive.

When I was at the Spring Charlotte show last year there was a man selling foil backed bubble wrap in bulk. He had it in a 4ft width and varying lengths from 6ft to 100 ft.

I paid $50.00 for enough bubble wrap to line my 41 1 ton pickup,
my 1946 Suburban AND also make window inserts in my Trawler boat to keep the sun out when not cruising.

It gives you an idea what a rip off the windshield inserts are at $25.00 each.

It also reduces the sound levels.

If you live in the Southeast you "must see" this show in April.

I bought one of those at a truck stop when the heater core went out in my 98 Dodge on a road trip. They draw a lot of power and kept blowing the fuse in the Dodge. My advice is forget that idea.

Hello guys:
Good topic, one I have been thinking about for a long time.
How about the factory optional Rear Heat and Air that older (1970's - 80's Suburbans have and also Astro vans.
I wonder how they hook up to the water and also to the refrigerant? That might be an easy solution. Anyone tried it or know how they work?
I live in Canada and heat is good! Air is good in summer too! There is a lot of area in my 1951 GMC Suburban Carryall!
Ter

Hi,

This been on my mind for a long time too.. There are dual AC/Heater kits like this one:

http://www.cbsonline.co.uk/product/UNIVERSAL_AIR_CONDITIONING_%26_HEATER_KIT_AIRCON


There are also pure AC kits like this:

http://simplenet.com.my/ecatalog/seasonair/catalog/CUSTOM_EVAPORATORS-414-0.html#

There are kits like this on alibaba too and you can find them on ebay too. I really like the dual heat/AC kit just need to find it cheaper since it's an arm and a leg for it...

I don't see a problem mounting said kits either under the rear seats on a burb or possibly under the ply floor having holes through the plyfloor for the ventilation. That would make it pretty hard to spot and also relatively easy to put back to original.

Here is a sketch of how you possibly could hook up dual or more evaporators to one compressor. http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6655163-0-large.jpg -- I'm planning to use a A6 compressor (or Pro6TEN if the one I have is broken). The A6 used to drive dual AC setups in Cadillac's factory limo so it should be able to do it in the Burb too - driving under period correct under dash unit and one rear under seat AC/heater unit in the back.

One question I see several people talking about insulating with bubble wrap. I simply don't get it how. In a panel van sure since you might cover the whole load area in ply. But a burb, it has it's steel sides and headliner glued directly to the underside of the steel roof. I don't see it how you can get any type of sheet insulation glued to the inside of the outside Qpanel skins, those access panels are just to tiny.

If there was some way of spraying thick tar and oil based undercoating (that didn't dry out) to the inside of the Qpanels then maybe. Been searching for a way to do that but so far no luck any body knowing how to spray it?

You could foam fill it but that would trap moist and it will rust like nothing else even in Arizona.. so any other ideas?

Cheers Dyna

PS: You just make a Y split (parallel) on your water supply and a second thermostat for the water and you are good to go... or alternatively you can serial it but I think that is not as good of a solution.

Dyna,

The 47-55 Suburban headliner is not glued to the roof (but, the panel truck "ceiling/roof liner" is, I think).

Insulation material can be glued to a Suburban roof, leaving air space between the insulation and the cardboard headliner.

My 1946 Suburban is more open on the sides than the later model shown above.

It sounds like his headliner is some after market unit if it is glued directly to the roof and is not of the original design.

Having said that, anything you can do to glue any kind of insulation product anywhere you can is going to reduce the noise and improve the climate on hot or cold days.

Hi

Ah so that explains it. My burb is a 58 and it has a glued headliner ... Guess I will be freezing while you guys with earlier burbs will have it warm and cosy..

Cheers Dyna

Burbites,
It is what I call "Fit & Finish".If a person is set on keeping the inside stock then the realization is only a propane blast furnace will keep ice from forming on the inside in the winter and keeping your Co-pilot from shivering.
I put many hours deliberating on,ok,I'm going to be comfortable or correct? It then dawned on me....Make it to suit myself.I'm paying for it! I like'um all... I just enjoy hopping in in 20d weather and going for breakfast with the car gang,turn on the heater and then be able to hear the radio also in an Insulated Burb.
I made patterns of the plywood bows put in the top to jamb sandwich foil juke insulation {not bubble wrap}to the roof and then stapled in a vinyl headliner.I also made matching full door panels and covered them to match.One sheet of carwash board from Lowes made all the panels.I'll update my Photos this week to illistrait. Like I said,to each his own.Those ones I see in in the magazines that are period perfect and "way cool" but they are -way cool- in cold weather.
Keep the Burbs from rusting!