The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop Sand Blasting or Soda Blasting?

I just found out about Soda (media) blasting but I'm curious as to if it is the best and time saving option to do. Would sand blasting be to hard on the metal? And would either sand blasting or soda blasting take off bondo?

Also the issue of bondo, would it be better if I take it to someone who can fix (without bondo) the little dents in the fenders. The fenders are really the only spot where there is any major dents, the bed has a little bit too. Any comments or suggestions would be great. Thanks!

Nevada 2010 Chevy

Hello Nevada, as I understand it sandblasting is not really good for the metal. It can stretch the metal out of shape. Soda blasting or Chemical dip would be better. That's as I see it. Someone with more experiance will follow with some more or better info. As for the little dents, You should try them yourself. It's not really that hard to do. Watch a vidio or read up on the subject and give it a try. The only thing I can tell you is don't mix up too much at one time. Good luck, Steven

soda blasting is in a class of its own .... media blasting really refers to things like plastic beads and ground nut shells, it's just a form of abrasive blasting, like sand but gentler, and usually done with small pieces in a blasting cabinet

any abrasive basting will mostly remove bondo, soda will not, it's a paint removal technique - the problem with using soda is most paint mfgrs won't honor any warranty for their products after it, if not properly cleaned any residue can cause problems with paint adhesion afterwards

sand blasting can damage sheet metal, especially large flat panels, if not done properly and carefully, but works quite well - best to get a pro to do that kind of cleaning - sand blasting is best for heavier work like your frame and various hard parts, otherwise use paint strippers and manual abrasives like a flap disk on an angle grinder or die grinder to clean your sheet metal, which is mostly what a good body shop would do

you or a pro could likely hammer out the dents pretty well, but you're unlikely to find anyone affordable that can do metal straightening well enough to totally avoid the use of at least a skim of filler, which as Steven said just takes some patience and practice to do well

Bill

Here is my first hand experiences.

PLASTIC will NOT take off anything but paint. I took my body to have the last little bit blasted blasted off, after I had gotten sick, to a guy who had been sand and plastic blasting for almost 20 years. I had placed my sweaty hand on the freshly sand blasted front cowl. It oxidized and left my hand print in light surface rust.... PLASTIC did NOT take even it off and only paint on the small section I had done. The guy is also a fellow friend in the car club and he gave me a 5 gal bucket of new plastic to try in my bead blasting cabinet. Its good on paint or maybe some other delicate material but NOT for anything else.

Silicate sand is cheap, and if you buy the BLASTING sand it is sized and works well. Extra fine, fine or Medium. I prefer the fine in the blasting cabinet. Medium o rusted chassis. At $6.50 for a 100 lb bag its a good buy. Its also better to see a little sand "sift" out from a crack somewhere than have the "leeching" of soda chemicals. Plus Soda and dipping is expensive...and you deal with paint warranties. I do understand, that like everything else, there are some good ones....and some bad ones out there. Let your conscience by your guide...and your pocketbook.

May I add a comment about warping metal. ANY blaster worth his salt will know, or should know how to blast sheet metal. I've had many many pieces blasted and I have also blasted them myself and never had a panel come back worst than it was to begin with.
If you do it yourself remember to not stay in the same place to long and keep moving...you know, in...out,...in out...
Except for perhaps dipping, sand blasting is the only way to get rid of RUST. Yes, there is "some" metal removed but very little. If it blows through a piece of metal real easy I would not want to repair and put that piece back on a vehicle just to say its "all metal"!

May I add a word of caution about flap disk and grinders. Watch carefully what your doing with them or you will have little "divets" every time you "hit" it to the metal to sand/grind. I've seen this happen more than once....not counting the lesson I learned myself......I couldn't see it till I "stepped back" and the light hit the metal just right.
Whew, thats my .03 cents

One issue not mentioned up to now with sand blasting is the problem of the sand getting trapped in areas where it doesn't come out easily.

Take doors for example. Blasting media will get trapped inside the hollow area at the top and sides and over time become dislodged and fall into things like your latch mechanism causing havoc with those greased, moving parts. Same thing with your cab, but there it's possible it will fall onto wet paint inside.

Chemical dipping, properly done, should be your first choice if available.

I stripped every square inch of paint and filler from the exterior of my truck with a WAGNER PAINT EATER and it was remarkably fast, efficient and economical.

Blast if you must but don't say no one warned you about the "fallout".

What about useing [Dry Ice]
I have never sean it done.

I had all my parts sandblasted and even the hood turned out fine. It depends on the experience of the blaster. I don't think soda will remove stuck on rust. Woody is right that it seems that sand keeps falling out of cracks and such at a later date, but I don't agree with the chemical dip as it may leach out and ruin your paint at a later date. If you look at one of the best shops in the country: JeffLilly.com they blast (though I don't know if it is soda or sand).

BTW, where are you from in Nevada? I grew up outside of Carson City, went to Douglas High.

Michael

OK A topic I can speak from EXPERIANCE on As I have been down all 3 roads.


Back in 2004 when I got the extra cab from another BB member, from Oregon, I was talked into Soda Blasting. simple cheap and "seemed" a sure way to get her cleaned (see picture link)

Soda Blast Album Link

http://rides.webshots.com/album/414823796vWvHlX

After I had the cab cleaned, I brought it to my “friends” shop to have it washed down and primed. He kept telling my he was going to get it done and even after I bought the primer, he let it re-rust. When I showed up one evening I like to have killed him.

Don’t barf,

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1414844434054402330TNrmiG

OK so what do I do now? I was told about chemical dipping, contacted Readi Strip in Jackson, MS. and brought the cab and hood to them.

http://rides.webshots.com/album/418332987uAZJiR

BTW the great looking “Puzzled Truck” was a the body mans pride. 5 different makes and models in the body, can you pick them all out?

Cab and hood Dipped: It was finished and we picked it up on AUGUST 24, 2005 Note the date!

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1418342078054402330ovysKb

Yep, 5 days before Katrina, guess what? It Got Dipped Again! in Salt water!

The only thing that saved it was that the very evening we brought it to Joe’s shop he primed the living hell out of it!

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1418655061054402330JRvYnn

If you have the place. Go the chemical dip route, it gets EVERYTHING out.

Especially when its done two times! Is the truck painted yet? Sure looks nice when it comes out of the tank.

Over the past two days we completed all the wet sanding and today (11/27) are cleaning the shop and applying the 1K sealer to the cab and we paint monday. You can see the progress pictures here.

http://rides.webshots.com/album/575304472BKnrNw

The heavy body work is in this album. The dark hair guy Esteban (my lab tech at work) is a whiz at metal cutting and welding, we had to replace a section of the PS side pillar at the door-check retainer (screws rusted so badly we could not remove it). You cannot tell it was ever changed, the dents in the body were handled with a $99. stud welder from harbor freight.

http://rides.webshots.com/album/570011449JVCLFX

I have had mixed results with soda blasting.
Over all it can help with an amazing finished surface. There were a few issues one should consider.
It is very difficult getting all of the powder residue out of the crannies. It keeps showing up when you least expect it.
Cleaning the residue and neutralizing the metal is VERY IMPORTANT! This step cannot be rushed.
No matter what type of paint you use it will not adhere to any bare metal that has seen soda unless it has been cleaned and prepped. The paint will peel off in huge strips.
I had a horrible first go around with it. I had to start over in a few sections. Inner cab, Bed. It was very discouraging. After that however things went great.
For deep rust soda isn't the best choice. You want to switch it up here and there.
As for all of the detail areas in full view there's nothing better than soda.It does a great job.
You will need quite a bit of air pressure to run the bigger blasters as well as an air dryer. The soda will clump easily if it gets damp. This will clog your blaster. I would also use a full face fresh air respirator.
Soda also works great on degreasing.
I have a blaster that holds about 100 lbs of soda good for bigger areas. I also got one off ebay for about 100 dollars that takes less air is portable and works great for smaller jobs.
Soda is expensive about 40 a bag.
It will eat through bondo but not rubber.
Soda will also wash away with water.
I'll try to post some pics of some of the finished areas as well as some of the spots where it wasn't cleaned properly

Hello Michael,
I've grown up my whole life in Lovelock, that is about two hours North of Carson City. Thanks for the help!

Well, I'm wondering what would be the best-fastest-and cheaper route to go. Here are some pictures of my pickup: http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n611/19Chevy38Guy/38%20Chevy/IMG_1508.jpg

http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n611/19Chevy38Guy/38%20Chevy/IMG_1446.jpg

The cab, fenders, hoods, etc. have surface rust where you can rub on the metal with your finger and it takes some off, a couple of scrubs of 240 sand papers it is off. The frame is the worst part, but I sanded the rust off of it with 240 for a little bit and it was off. I talked to the blaster in Carson City who does the baking soda blasting and he said as long as the metal is dry and of the pickup is apart, there is no problem with soda remaining on the pickup.

The reason why I’m leaning more towards this guy is that he can come up to my yard and do it in a day and all I have to pay for is his gas coming up here, five hundred for the job, and however many bags it takes adds forty dollars per fifty-lb. bags. We’ll see, but so far from the comments and experiences that have been posted here, I’m still not one hundred percent sure. I am putting on a primer on the bare metal, then sanding it with like 360, prime it again then paint the basecoat. We’ll see, but the more suggestions, the more it helps me out.  Thank you!

If all you do is scrub the fenders a few times with sandpaper to get the rust off, then why not use some Phosphoric Acid and a rag to wipe it off? Don't let it dry, wipe with a wet rag, then wipe with a dry rag. Use some PRE cleaner or other surface cleaner. Then hit it with a coat of epoxy. Once that is done you have a piece that is ready for some dolly and hammer or filler, 2k then paint.

The frame I would sandblast. Hit that with epoxy and some Chassis Black and you will be good. Any chips can be easily repaired. Just sand the epoxy before the topcoat or spray the topcoat within the recommended window.

From the looks of your photos, you have it good! Take a look at how mine looked:
Before
in epoxy
Chassis Black topcoat
If you choose to have the sandblaster come to you, make sure you are ready to spray epoxy right away. Well, in NV you might have a day or two. Here in Florida, it has to be right away!

Good luck!
Michael

Nevada, for the frame, I would use POR 15 and not have to blast a thing...cheaper in the long run and less headaches. I had good luck with it check the website for pic's.

My only problem with going straight to POR on the frame is that I am sure it has grease and oil residue on there as well. Blast it and be sure its all off.

So many opinions...

blast the greasy frame without first cleaning off the grease and what you've done is embed the grease into the pits .... use the proper procedures precleaning for the POR and you're finished

Bill

Food for thought,

PPG and Dupont will NOT warranty their lines of paint when soda blasting is involved.

There is a reason most knowledgeable resto shops avoid soda blasting, paint adhesion problems.

You MUST neutralize the film left behind or you will never get paint to stick. Typically involves scrubbing bare metal with a water solution, IMO bare metal and water do not mix. The additional labor involved in getting a soda blasted car truly ready for primer off sets the cost of going the traditional media blasting route...Eric

Use the marine clean product they sell first to remove dirt/grease then the metal prep. Like was posted above, follow their instructions and you will have no problems. Modify or do your own way and things tend to become problematic with POR15.

Hank