The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Marvel Mystery Oil

Has anyone used it in their old engines? I keep researching and it seems like an amazing product. i'm hoping to hear from some "real" people...just to be sure. I figure If it really does what it says, i'll start using in all 5 of my vehicles.

Works good getting a stuck motor to turn over.

I've used a little in the gas in flathead engines, since there is no oil to the top end otherwise.

One of few products that has stood the test of time. I've used it off and on for several years and for different reasons. I vote it IS good stuff.

I've been using it for 50 years and I still like it better than some of the newer products.

It's a good penetrating oil, with a lot of uses. It dissolves gum and varnish in valve guides if it's added to the crankcase oil, and at one time, it was used in a special oil-injection device that put a tiny, metered amount of oil into the intake manifold to retard combustion chamber carbon buildup caused by the poor-quality gasoline sold during the Korean war. I've seen 1/2 gallon glass jugs mounted under the hood of early-50's cars with a tiny (1/16" diameter) copper tube plumbed into the intake manifold with a precision needle valve mounted to the reservoir to meter the oil.

Marvel was also used as a crankcase oil additive to keep early hydraulic valve lifters from clattering from debris buildup in their check valves.
Jerry

Added to the gas, it helped to loosen up sticky carbs on my motorcycle. From what I've been told, I wouldn't hesitate to put a little in a crankcase, either.

cm

Ok, been lurking to see just how many suckers this thread would pull in and figured it’s time to voice my opinion. Actually these guys can say what I feel a lot better than I can.

Here is a bit of reading on additives if you’ve got an hour or so. And there are even some real legitimate independent scientific studies sited this time and plenty of common sense facts to mull over.
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=689158
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/images/lucas/lucas.htm
And if that’s not enough, here’s a bit on plain ol’ motor oil that also makes sense.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

WOW Denney. Thanks for the links. Very enlightening information and seemingly believable coming from these sources. I didn't see anything on the Marvel Mystery Oil except for a detailed list of ingredients though. Did I miss something? I have never used it or anything else in my engines but it seems to do well in my airtools. Isn't it about the same thing as the old Bardahl Upper Cylinder Lubricant?Thanks again.

Bobtheoilguy is a very interesting read. Grandpa always said 10w30 in the winter and 10w40 in the summer, sounds like he may have been wrong. Bob seems to indicate that the first number is the one you want to switch with the seasons. I've always believed that additives are not good with the exception of slick 50 in tired old engines. I've seen it written recently that the only people who promote additives are those who stand to make money off of them. I don't have any stock in slick 50, just good experience with using it.

I don't think so Dave, the little bit about the MMO lead me to do the other research in to oil/fuel additives, I would guess as the article states, that they are all pretty similar. I doubt if the chemistry was any better in 1923 when they came up with the formula for MMO, than it is today. So I'd bet it's not much more of a mystery than the stuff the others are pushing.
I have been and still am a believer that today the major oil companies have the best handle on the formulation of their products and adding to the mix isn’t going to benefit the performance of our engines.
Vern, yepper, starts like SAE #10 or #5 or now #0 and thickens to #30 or #40. I’ve read and re-read the shop and owners manuals many times for the Stovebolt engines and all the recommendations are for #20 oil. If it’s real, real hot, i.e., desert #30 and real, real cold,i.e., Northwest Territory, #10, that’s pretty simple. Today with the milti-viscosity oils I’m sure we could use a 10w 20 or the new 0w 20 oils as long as the engines are in good shape. I really don’t think you are gonna see a bit of difference running a 0w 30, 5w 30 or 10w30 oil in the Stovebolt either.
I just had my 216 rebuilt and when I get it back together and broke in, I’m gonna start using the new Mobil 1 0w 20. For my break in I’m going to use a straight #10 for the first 500 miles or so. The oils are still formulated with 800ppm ZDDP and that offers adequate protection for our low performance Stovebolts.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny, I don't really see that any of your links are on point. I have been selling lubricants all of my life and have seen so called "tests" all my life. I don't sell Marvel Mystery oil, but I buy it because I have trouble with valves sticking and rings sticking in my old jalopies and it fixes them. Marvel Mystery Oil dissolves carbon deposits and varnish deposits. It has always been marketed as a "top oil" and it wasn't meant to be anything more. But it does a good job of what it was designed to do. They also market a good air tool lubricant. I use it in all of my inline oilers.

47 Chief gets a capful in each tank at fillup, keep it in my saddlebag.Have done so for 35 years or so. Don't know if it does anything for da Chief, makes me feel better though!

Much of todays NEW stuff is just refreshed and re-marketed old stuff many times with the same ingredients just a more modern "scientific" name. Like Denny, I read a lot and have also sent off to get the "tests" results(and how they were done) that they offer on the back of the bottles. Well, I'll be damned, the little difference they rave about is about as worthless as ....well you know. And how the tests are set up leaves one to wonder.
I've sent off for a bunch of them and while there is SOME MINUTE truth to what they claim it is solely to take your money and down right almost negligible.

I'm one that has said you can't restore an engine out of a bottle. Additives may "prolong" the eventual end but its mainly to get your money.
I do also believe that some of the stuff is good......for different things so each has to be evaluated on its on merit.

Example: my lifters are shot on my silverado after 218,000. They click/clack every morning for a few seconds. Well, I did put a little Lucas in it but I don't think it helped a bit. The lifters are shot and no bottle gonna fix them. So, I'll drive it till it dies and pull the engine. Hey, this stuff is mechanical and it WILL wear out.

Denny, my personal thoughts on the ZDDP is be careful. I have seen two newly rebuilt V8's with flat tappets go sour due to this problem and have read several reports on this. Those two engines were from very reputable shops in town and who have been in the engine business for years.
IF it was mine I'd definitely put me a quart of E.O.S. (engine oil supplement) from the local Chevy dealer. Better safe than sorry.

ZDDP has been taken out of some of the name brand oils today. I know Shell Rotella, and Kendall has all the old additives they used to put in years ago.
I was told to put this oil in when I broke in my engine along some EOS from GM.
The guys who put the engine together built a lot of racing engines for sprint and drag cars out here on the west coast.
I used to fly RC Airplanes before my eyes went bad and as we quit for the day I would put some Marvel Mystery Oil and flood them out to keep them free. Just the other day I opened one of the boxes that I keep them in and they are still free and not froze up so that tells me they have a good product. They have been packed away for over 10 years.
62 Blue
Don

Not looking to argue the point, just presenting some information that I found that sounds logical and stating what I believe. This isn't much different than our political elections is it? 50% believe the world should be red and 49% believe the world should be blue and 1% don't have a clue. So whose belief is right???
I am in agreement with Alvin, if your lifters are clattering, then replace your lifters, no bottle of snake oil is going to replace worn metal parts, in spite of what Paul Harvey promised.
DG

Hey Denny,
Have you done a study on Gas additives yet?
You know with this 10% or more of ethinal(the EPA wants to put more) and how it messes up the motors, what can we do? Around here Marathon Gas is the new guy in town and his gas has STP additives already in it so thats what I use, but my milage has still dropped and performance also.
Don't know what it's gonna do to my new 327.
I guess i'll find out.
Thanx,

Mike

a study can usually say anything and are usually done to sell something. i like MMO for a few things and buy it at times. i think it's a good product, but i wouldn't expect any miricles. with most "feel good" products that's the benefit- to feel good about it, kind of like insurance! they get your money and you feel safe- everybodys happy!

My 2 cents worth. If you believe that an additive will fix a mechinical problem, use it. I use wd40 when ever something does not work. About 1/2 the time it works. Door knobs, locks, garage openers, etc. What the he**, I want to do something else, and it buy you some time. Makes you look like you really know what you are doing. I usually schedule a repair and usually find the real proplem.The only additive that I use, gasline freeze,nothing more than alcohol to mix with the water in the tank and burn it.The other is water pump lub to extend the life of the water pump when you do not change the anti freeze.

The old mechanic I worked with (1956) had problems with old engines when the detergent oils came out. He would change the oil and filter,use a mixture of 20W oil and solvent. Run the engine for 2-3 minutes and letit set for 30 60 munutes, all the gunk run into the pan. Drain the oil and replace the filter and use 20W oil. Have the owner return in 500 miles and change the oil and filter. This makes more sense than all the additives.It removes the crude in the motor and the detergent oil will keep it clean.

I worked for an old school mechanic that swore by the stuff. It made lifters quiet and kept power steering pumps from howling.

I used Lucas Power steering leak stop in my old FERD van. It was howling pretty loudly and I needed to make a trip before I could change the pump. I pulled some of the old fluid out, put the Lucas in and after about 5 miles it quit howling. That was three years ago and I still have the same pump on the van.

I didn't count on it making the pump quieter, I just needed it to make a short trip. Best money on additive I ever spent.

Pulling this old post backup, but looking at fuel additives. My boat dealer swears by a product called Chemtool B-12. In particular, when pulling boats out of storage he recommends mixing into the tank to "clean out" the fuel system. He contends that b-12 chemically will allow any water accumulated in the tank to be burned in addition to cleaning out any deposits in the fuel system. In his defense, I cannot find Ethanol free pump gas locally, and we all know ethanol attracts water. BTW I always store IC equipment with fuel stabilizers. So, since this isn't a boat forum, have you guys had any experience with B-12 or any other fuel additive that will either clean things out for these engines that don't run much or clean up any nastiness in the tank. (For completeness boat is EFI not carb'd). I included Alvin's post because I like his "just give me the facts plz approach".
Thanks

I've used B-12 at times, and I don't find it to be any better or worse than any similar product. Your guy has probably had good results with it, so he promotes it now. Additives fall into two basic categories, solvents and lubricants, or some mixture of the two properties. The fuel stabilizers are somewhat different, having some sort of varnish inhibitor that's supposed to keep stored fuel from going stale. I've always felt the best way to put an engine's fuel system into moderately long storage is to empty as much gas from the tank as possible, run the engine to purge as much remaining fuel as possible, and use some type of fogging oil to prevent rust and ring sticking. Blocking off the intake and exhaust system to prevent humidity from promoting rust as temperature changes migrate air in and out of cylinders with open valves is probably the best thing to do for a stored engine.
Jerry

Allen here's some places in Texas that has Ethanol free gas. Texas is a BIG state so I don't know if any of these are close to you.
http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=TX

Have used Marvel Mystery oil for years. Works in my old flat head motorcycle. Keeps the Ex. valve guide happy. I use it in an old craftsman "squirt" oil can to reach into places with a bit less mess. But my best use has been at the drill press. It cools the bit and....it smells good. Seems to make drilling more efficient but that could be wishful thinking on my part. It works as a penetrate and likes heat. At least as long as it is not too hot. Works for me. For the other "additives" that I have tried...Not so much. If you want to remove carbon from an old engine, this trick I learned from an old guy here in Utah. Warm it up, get a good high idle speed and pour a little water right in the carb. Keep it running. Steam breaks the carbon up and it comes right out the tail pipe. Works like a champ! Water to steam = 1800 to 1 expansion. That is what blows the carbon off the pistons. Got to keep it running cause it can be a pain to get started if it gets too wet. Works on tractors, military trucks and my 235. Cost...a glass of water. Or if you have to be a big spender use bottled water.

I have heard of the water Steve and I have also heard using transmission fluid.??? I have read the threads on GM's EOS.
Used it in the past with good results. Talked to a parts guy at a Chevy dealer and he told me GM changed the formula in the EOS and doesn't recommend it in older flat tappet cammed engines. I bought the last two cans he had under the old part number.

Shaker, thanks for the link good to know. Only one near Houston and a long way from me, but can now keep an eye out.

My dad was a mechanic (actually made a living at it) in his younger days, and he told me about the water trick and cleaning out carbon build up in the old put putter's. I'm actually surprised Professor Jerry HL didn't have it in his repertoire.

I've suggested the water trick before, and it usually gets some snarky comments from people who were filling their diapers (or weren't even born) when I learned it. There was a "Carbon Blaster" product that was very popular back in the 1950's called "P.D.Q." that we ran through a carburetor's gas line fitting instead of gasoline from the fuel pump. The mechanic would rev the engine repeatedly, and the engine would knock, detonate and vibrate like a gang of people were inside with sledgehammers trying to pound their way out. The carbon would come pouring out of the tailpipe in a black cloud! It took about 5 minutes to run a 12-ounce can of the stuff through the engine, and it was unbelievable how much black soot would be dislodged!
Jerry

See there, I knew you'd heard of it. That's pretty much how Dad described the water trick. He didn't necessarily understand the science behind it (the steam expansion) Steve describes above, but I don't exactly understand the science behind my digital watch, but am able to use it pretty effectively.

I've used bg service when I was a tech. Put a can in the fuel tank and a hook a vacuum line to the other. Car would idle like hell, sputter and almost die. Floor it and the biggest smelliest cloud of crud came out of the exhaust. Worked like a charm. My dad uses the water method.

The G.M. cleaner is now called upper engine cleaner, clear plastic jug, blue stuff. Old stuff in metal can was called top engine cleaner, both used via intake (engine running, pour into carb, feed into vacuum port, etc.)or removing plugs to soaking piston rings.

For trying to remove old, hard carbon I'd try water first, in addition to cheap the water vapor is less likely to get the fire departments attention than the cloud of nasty blue fog of the good 'ol Top engine cleaner produced.
Note: Use caution when adding any liquid to the intake of a running engine, rods will bend!

The GM EOS (engine oil supplement) is thick, not the stuff to add to the fuel system. There was GM camshaft prelube (small clear plastic bottle) but my parts manager seems to think it's been discontinued. May have been, haven't been anything with flat tappets for awhile.

A friend of mine ran into an old guy who worked at/for/ or in conjunction with Marvel Mystery Oil. The old guy told him it was Automatic Transmission Fluid.

I like it for the reasons others posted: It smells good and makes me feel good. I use it in my 47 Indian (flathead). My opinion is that the best thing you can do for your fuel is to stay away from ethanol blends if possible. At least around here (east Tennessee) it is becoming an option (for a higher price) at more and more gas stations.

joe

Was in a junkyard in South Pa.in the mid 70's getin parts for my 53 and saw a group of guys workin on an old 40's Plymoth. Watcht them for a bit. They got that car runnin. So I went over to find out how they did it. Marvel Mystery oil in the gas and the crank case with the old oil. They hand cranked it first with MMO in the cylenders first. Been sold on the stuff ever since. Slick 50, used it in my 98 S10 blazer. 174000 miles later still runs great. Dosn't burn or leak oil. Does anyone know where to get Slik 50 I can't find it anymore? I used to inject water in my intake,it cleand and raised my compresson on my 292. MMO great stuff.

You'd be interested in the dyno run tests we did on Slick 50 when it first hit the market. After a series of baseline tests run with regular 10W-30 motor oil in a new Ford 300 6 cylinder, we changed oil, poured the Slick 50 in, and ran it for an hour at partial load to distribute it evenly. The same series of HP/Torque tests were run as before, with a 5% POWER LOSS after the slick 50 was used. Nuff said!

The next encounter with the stuff was in a Buick 3 liter V6 with a broken crankshaft after 53,000 miles on a very well-serviced vehicle. When the car owner wanted me to put the slick stuff in, I refused, or the engine warranty would be void.

Bottom line, Slick 50 is sucker bait!
Jerry

A long time ago an old timer that used to run the Red Ball Express back in WWII said they used to pour alittle bit of ATF down the carb (or intake of a diesel) of a running engine to clean the topend out every now and then. His info was generally good but would come after some adult beverage had loosened his tongue up He had many stores

I never tried the ATF but I have tried the water/steam method with similar results as stated in this thread.

I used to pour a cap full of MMM into all my tractors and L&G equipment at fillup that were designed and built back before no-lead gas became the law of the land. after mucho reading on the WWW I stopped and haven't suffered any topend related failures since.

I've heard alot of folks sware by Sea Foam for cleaning out an engine but I haven't tried it yet.

Dave

I've run my cummins diesel off pure ATF. Ran like a rocket ship! Good for the injectors and pump. As for a gas motor? I wouldn't try it. I use power service mainly for my diesel. For the gas motors I use the Lucas fuel cleaner, it also helps to hit the highway on a Sunday morning and just go wide open throttle. I used water injection as a compression boost on a newer vehicle. Ran the windshield washer reservoir line to the throttle body on a camero. Run it down the track with the wipers going, it was hilarious but effective. Shaved 3 tenths off my time consistently. Went from 13.2 to a 13.0-12.9 with more mph.

Not sure how they poured ATF into any motors in the 40's... automatic transmissions were simply not used in the Military. Not till the 50's with the M135/M211 did they try them.. and quickly got rid of them for manuals again when the M35's entered service.

I would completely agree that water was used.

Anything with Teflon in it is rubbish. In order for teflon to bond to metal and reduce friction, it has to be heated to over 700F for a long period of time (ie baked on). Plus Slick 50 got the pants sued off them for their claims of improving anything.

Around the late 80's early 90's motor oils really improved. The additive packages really do well all by themselves and adding anything to a modern engine is really a waste of money.

If you look at what MMO, its a mix of 75% mineral oil, the rest solvents. So you can see why it unsticks things... its 25% stoddard solvent.

Anyone try the Lucas heavy duty oil stabilizer? Pure petroleum. Sure quieted down my motor. It's thick as molasses and comes in a gallon jug. I run 1 jug of that with 2 havoline heavy duty oil.

'Petroleum' is the raw goo that they pump out of the earth. So not, its not that.

Its just an additive package heavy on esters and modifiers.

Also, what IS unstable oil? What test can I run to find out if my oil is stable or unstable? A match? The plastic gear thing at the FLAPS?

Set out a bottle of Lucas snake oil in winter.... they tell me you want that tar in your motor at a 0F startup.

No thanks.

The M5A1 Light Tank was very common before and during WWII and saw extensive duty in both the European & Pacific theatres.
The GM built M5AI had a 2 speed automatic transmission which no doubt gals of the transmission fluid sent for their support found it's way down the carbs/intakes of other motor transport vehicles.....
Dave