The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Still won't run

Well, I tried to get my 216 engine to live again. I've gotten some excellent advice before on how to do this and have researched the topic quite well. Basically, I've replaced the fuel supply, timed the engine too spec, rebuilt the carb, replaced all the electrical stuff in the starting circuit. This is what I get when I've cranked the engine for 10-12 sec. at a time with just the choke out...

I notice the engine seems to turn through all 6 cylinders and then hesitates slightly when the #1 cylinder intake valve opens/closes. After a few sec. of not turning, I get a slight bluish vapor coming out of most of the valve rod holes, or so it looks. I want to say that I smell something has indeed burned. There is also the same smoke drifting from the tail pipe. I pulled only the first plug and finger tested the compression. Initially I got an excellent blast and then if I kept it firmly on it weakend. yet if I let it suck air through the spark hole, coompr. was good. Could this mean sticking valves? maybe why I'm getting smoke in the valve cover? visually they are all moving up and down perhaps not seating firmly? This parts a mystery to me.

I must admit I really need to check the compression but I'm too cheap yet to buy one ($80)and nobody has the 10mm adaptor.
Any replies are welcomed and appreciated.

Kyle

you should be able to get an elcheapo compression tester with a tapered rubber end... you just cram it in the spark plug hole whilst the engine is turned over.

Got Gas?
Got Spark?
Got Compression?

Rusty, any good place to get those? All I've seen, cheap or not, are the threaded ones. Could you fabricate the rubber end out of a cheap set?

Kyle,

I hope you know it's more fun to drive them than it is to work on them!

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92720


Stuart

The choke valve should be open & the throttle open at least a little when you check for compression.

Check the valve shaft assembly for broken or stuck rockers and/or bent pushrods. Also check the rocker shaft itself.

I never noticed any vapors coming from my valve stems when I ran my 216, it had a head job though.It could be that your valve guides are sloppy,even with that said the engine should run.Perform engine tune up, points gap set, timing set, good plug wires, proper spark from coil, gas, zoom-zoom-zoom-engine has to run.

Try backing off the rocker arm adjustment just a bit. If one is a little tight it might do as you are saying. Try starting with the rocker cover removed so you can watch the rocker arms. You will hear if any of the valves are sticking, rocker arm will be loose! Joe

you say engine comes to stop while cranking,,,this usually means timing is off...i'd check that again....

Check the timing chain or gears for slack.
1. timing mark (the ball on the flywheel) on its mark (the needle inside the hole on the bell housing).
2. remove the distributor cap, leave the rotor in position.
3. Mark the position of the rotor with paint or liquid paper.
4. turn the engine with a wrench and at the same time look and the rotor. when the rotor just begins to move stop turning the crankshaft.
5. make a mark on the flywheel where the pointer is.
6. turn the engine backwards untill the rotor just begins to move.
7. mark the flywheel again.
8. measure the distance the fly wheel moved from both marks you made.
If that distance is more than 10 degrees then you have valve timing problems. ie: timing chain or gears as the case may be.

That kind of smoke makes me think you have it out of time. Check to see if it is 180 degrees out.

Thanks for all the input. I'll check into these when time permits.

Darian...the engine I can't say has actually fired, but the turning is fairly even until it "hits" that place and will slow up the cranking but not stop it completely.

I'm going to get the manual out and adjust the valve as specified. Can you do this on a cold engine?

You are going to have to adjust them cold, just add a thousands or so to the hot figures. Its really sounds out of time. Double and triple check the timing. Start on #1 TDC and go from there. Joe

Double check the firing order as well as the timing.

i would check your timing before doing anything else....it really sounds like your 180 degrees out...get that right first then set valves..

It does sound like the timing is out. If the smoke is coming from the pushrod area, it is blowby. Normally when trying to start one of these after a long time, you will hear the odd firing, and by itslef it sounds like a muffled explosion. As you make progress, the engine will turn faster as the firings start to assist the starter.

The starter imposes a huge current draw on the battery, especially on the 6 v system. One trick I sometimes use is to power the coil from a separate source so that it is not compromised by the draw on the battery.

If it were 180 degrees out, the hesitations should be consistant with three per revolution of the engine. That is why I suggested the firing order was wrong, not just 180 out.

You might make sure the distributor is turning. The fiber timing gear could have gone out to lunch.

The valves shouldn't be opening and closing if the timing gear isn't intact, but it could be damaged. The distributor gear could also be be damaged or the distributor may not be seated properly.

truckermix...could one bypass the starter with the truck 6volt battery and then use jumpers on a 12 volt directly to the starter for 10sec. times max? Or will this fry something?

Baldy...Firing order is right. I pulled the distributor to see about wear. The gear is fine, the slotted end is worn on opposing sides/ends about 3/16" along the side(not even all the way). I've also measured how the cap fits the rotor and I think the rotor is just skimming the tops of the cap terminals, not the sides. There does seem to be an 1/8" of play up and down on the distr. body vs. the shaft. But I don't see how to adjust this. Suggestions on that.

Toyvo...once I get the distr. cleaned up and in I'll check to see what kind of "play" I have. I do believe that I have some too.

I do have spark but it seems weak. I have 6 volts to the coil and only 2 volts at the distr. w/points open. The distr. has 2 terminals with oneside grounded to the block. For what its worth..

You should have six volts at the coil with the points open. Work on that first, condenser, maybe? Does your truck have the reversing switch for the points?

Baldy...no reversing switch, new coil (although I've been told half the new ones are no good, might try the old one back in. There are two terminals on the new coil +/battery reads 6 volts the -/distr. terminal reads 2 volts w/pts open. Points zap when opened but seem weak. No blue flashes, just small white spark

If you want to use 12 v on the starter and 6 v on the coil, here is how to do it. Disconnect the other wires from the starter except the battery wire. Disconnect the battery or power wire to the coil. Hook up your 6 v battery or supply, -ve to ground and +v to the coil. Hook up the 12 volt battery to the starter feed. I am presuming here that you have a foot starter. When you crank the motor, the coil will be running on a full 6 v. Of course when it starts, it won't be charging because the electrical system is disconnected.

Oh, make sure that the disconnected wires are isolated and not touching ground.

Both the + and - terminals on the coil should read six volts with the points open. Remove the condenser and see if the - terminal comes to six volts with the points open. Replace the condenser if that is the case.

Ok, here is what has happened so far...I cleaned up and reset the distributor and now get 6.74 volts at the distr. and coil and I got a different carb that I rebuilt. I did run the starter on a 12 volt jumper bypassing the starting ignition system and used the truck battery only to power the ignition system. It didn't seem to make the starter run any faster.

Today I got a little positive feedback from the old beast. With the gas disconnected, I only used a few burst of starting fluid. When cranking, one of the cylinders (I think #6)would give a weak explosion and overun the starter slightly. This was pretty consistane while cranking. Using this I positioned the distr. to a point that it felt/sounded smooth. Then I connected the gas line and actually got the thing to fire up for about a 2 seconds. This only happenned when i pumped the accelerator. Then it quit and I can't seem to get anything to fire because the intake appears to be flooded now.

My thought is that its starved for fuel. The first 4 cylinders spark plugs appear to be clean, no gas. The rear 2 seam to swim because the flooding drains down to the rear of the manifold thanks to the slant of the engine. Shouldn't the carb. be delivering a mist? The only mist I seam to get is from the accelerator pump. Should I be disconnecting the vacuum line at the carb and plugging it. I'm still baffled why it floods. I've used two carbs and this rebuild and have triple checked the float adj., needle, etc. what gives? Anyway I'm happy that it's getting closer.

641...you need to check comp to see if you have any,,if close to 90 or 100 with plugs out turn over until #1 comming up on comp line timing mark bring dist to fire #1,with dist loose and ing on retard then adv dist until #1 plug wire sparks lock dist down you are timed,,If flooding remove fuel line from carb and plug off get small oil pump cvan with gas and squirt some in carb top should run(careful with gas ))...doc

1st thing i'd check is to see if there is fuel in the last 2 cylinders. if its flooding all the time the fuel will run in the cylinder and as you crank it you're trying to compress the gas and it slows the cranking. take last 2 plugs out and crank it and see what happens

patruckboss, actually I got it going. Check out "It's alive" towards the bottom of the topic page. Thanks for the advice though.

Just a few thought! I sometimes find my choke is stuck and screws things up om starting. And in a true story, I once had a 1965 230 six that would not start. It finally found out the dist shaft bushings were shot. The rotor was all over the place. Just thinking out load. Have some kinda fun tomorrow.
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