The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Next question.... 235/216

Folks -

Okay, here's the next news and questions on the soon to be ours 47 5 window 3100....

When I ran the VIN it came back as "chassis/cowl 1952, Kansas City MO."

I tried what I thought was the engine # and nothing was returned.

The truck has vent wings, and IIRC the first year for vent wings was 51? Correct?

Anyway, my question is - the engine has 4 screws for the valve cover, not the 2 center studs. So this is for sure a 235, not a 216, correct? Is there any way to tell, other than the serial #, if it is a hi or low oil pressure 235? Is there any way it could be a 216 babbit motor with the 4 bolt valve cover.

None of this makes a lick of difference in the long run; I'm just consumed by curiosity and anticipation at some new old arn...

Thanks for any guidance you can provide!

John Moorhead

If it has the 4 screws on the valve cover it will be a full pressure 235.

George -

So, is it correct to assume that ALL 235's have 4 bolt VCs and are full pressure lube? I *think* I've read elsewhere here that some early 235s had the 216 two-stud VCs and were babbet/low pressure oiling.

We're buying a '47 - Though I assumed it had a 216 and am happy with that, I'd be equally happy if it had a full pressure 235. Aside from serial numbers, is there any way to tell which vintage 235 one might have? (e.g. hydraulic lifters on later iterations vs tappets on early ones)

Thanks for your info and any other background you can provide.

John

No there are some 235's with the 2-stud valve cover and babbit rods. All the 4-bolt valve cover engines are 235's or 261's, however. The early 235's have tall side covers like the 216,s and other than comparing casting numbers or measuring cylinder size, it's hard to tell the difference between a 216 and a 235. 235 splash-oil engines were used from 1941 to 52 in big trucks, 1 1/2 ton and bigger, and I think they might have been optional in 3/4 and 1-tons. A hydraulic-lifter version of the splasher 235 was used in Powerglide-equipped passenger cars in 1950-52.
Jerry

Jerry -

So - if I have this right, all 2 bolts are 216, some 2 bolts may be 235 low pressure. All 4 bolts are 235 or 61s, some 235s may be lp.

Okay, I've googled images for the various 6's and from the pics I have available to me, I can't discern btw the "Tall" vs. "Short" side covers. We're talking the tappet covers on the distributor side, yes??

Would you have pics or be able to give me a height measurement of the side cover for whatever you've got - if you do? Anyone else shed provide pics or measurements on side cover differences?

TIA

John

This is an example of a tall side cover 216, correct?

http://www.picayuneclassics.com/1953_chevy_project/before-engine1.jpg

this is the 235 shorter side cover:

http://www.picayuneclassics.com/1953_chevy_project/before-engine1.jpg

Wonderful! Now I'll be able to tell for sure if it's got a 216 or 235.

Next question: Is there any way to tell externally, a high pressure from a low pressure 235, aside from the engine serial number?

Thanks to all - hope someday this helps otters.

Smash the State!

John

Knedert...looks like you posted the same photo twice and it is the tall sidecover which goes around the spark plugs. That to me is the easiest way to tell a 216 or original LP 235 of which there aren't all that many in my experience. Thousands(mostly military)built but not many left today. All later 235's have the short side cover and 4 screw valve cover. Some folks(me)have a stud conversion so a center bolt VC can be used on a later 235 head. I have one so I can use the cast aluminum valve cover. But all that stuff is easy to spot after you know what your looking at.

Are your door handles push button (53 +) or turn down? Your vents definately were not standard on a 47 so perhaps the doors were changed to 53-55??

Dave -

D'oh! Here's the pic of the 235:

http://image62.webshots.com/462/6/65/30/2946665300039612029jriGza_ph.jpg

So, both 216 and 235 LP engines have tall side covers, is that correct?

I think the handles are turn downs, but there are no vent wing windows, which is 51 and later, if scanning photos in the gallery proves anything...

I'll post pics of the truck as soon as we have it - the wif doesn't want to jinx things....

We take off tomorrow morning to go pick it up!

John

1950 and earlier....pull down handles and NO wing vent
1951................pull down handles and wing vents
1952................Push button handles amd wing vents
but anyone could have changed the doors so you have to look at other clues like the 1950 had outside lovered vents driver side.

As 53moneypit mentioned, I also thought BOTH of your earlier photos were of the same engine to! The difference in side covers are pretty doggone easy to distinguish...one you see the diff.
The last link you provided told me I was "forbidden" and could not view it.

Goood luck and tell Rose hello.

Hmnnnn...

Odd.... I knew they'd be keeping track of me, especially after they implanted the chip..... I didn't think they would start blocking websites so SOON.....

Anyway, yes, now that I've seen the difference in the covers it is easy to spot. The truck has louvered vents on both sides forward of the doors, and I assume the pop up cowl vent.

Registration numbers come back saying it's a 52, but I haven't confirmed any of the actual numbers off of the truck, just what's on a scan of the pink slip.

Thanks for help!

John

Another good indication of a low-pressure engine is the presence of the Oil Distributor plate on the lower side of the block on the driver's side. That illustration from the Master Parts Manual is labeled as "Typical" for 1953-1957 sixes, but only the 1953 235 with standard transmission was a low pressure 235. That engine was the last of the low-pressure engines with cast-iron pistons, but it was, along with its 1953 Powerglide brother, the first 235 with the 18-bolt cylinder head. Thus, it would be possible to put a later head, such as the 848, on a standard transmission 235 car engine and have a low-pressure engine with a head for a four-bolt valve cover.

You need to check the casting codes and serial numbers on your block and head , starting with the great information o Tim's site.

Hoyt