The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop frame prep

If I'm going to get an estimate to get the frame blasted and painted, how bare should I have it first? I'm planning on replacing or fixing any steering components, bearings, seals, lines, etc, etc, etc... I'm assuming tires stay on but not much else?

Also, what are good questions to ask when I call for info. I don't really have many options on places, there's only one local guy in the area.

I figure I should at least find out about what it will cost so I know if its more feasible to do it that way or just use the por-15 since I don't have a sandblaster or compressor big enough to run one.

Any info would be appreciated. Thanks

I really don't see any justification in blasting your frame unless you strip it down to just the frame and build up from there. You really can't leave any moving parts on it because the sand is just going to get in it and ruin it anyway.

Just tell him that you have a bare frame from a '53 chevy half-ton pickup and how much would he charge to blast it down to bare steel.

If you have a real cherry specimen to start with you might as well do it right. If you just want to get it nice and shiny and drive it you can save a lot of money and time by scraping, wire brushing and giving it a couple good coats of (oh my god, he's going to say it again) ENAMEL.

Last year I had My frame blasted ,I took the brake drums off so he could get to the backing plates also took 4 out of the 6 nuts off the tires so he could remove the rims and do them ,I was going to get new tires anyway,he charged me 125.00 to blast frame,rims.

Pete

Woody,

Is taking a wire brush to the frame and giving it a couple coats of enamel enough to stop it from continuing to rust? I thought the problem with not getting it blasted was it was so hard to get into all the nooks and crannies where rust hides and comes back through the paint with just a wire brush. I don't have a "cherry" specimen by any means, but I don't want it to rust back over in a year or two either. What do you think?

By the way, I don't know much about paint so I'm not sure why you put in parenthesis "(oh my god, he's going to say it again)" and then underlined and capitalized "Enamel". Is it bad to use enamel, or is it good or what's the deal? Just thought I'd ask, I'm open to anything.

Paul

Paul,

Your frame is almost 60 years old. How rusty is it today? Is it falling apart? Is it collapsing under its own weight because so much metal has been lost it's paper thin? If you look at this stuff in perspective you'll find that these frames have lasted this long with a cursory coating of cheap paint when they were new so don't sweat it.

Rust needs moisture and oxygen to "grow". Deprive it of either or both of those and you will have no rust. However, factoring in that the air contains moisture and oxygen along with the fact that there is probably already rust between every two pieces that are riveted together all of this hysteria over how much money and time can we spend to "preserve" a frame seems a bit over-the-top to me.

If you really want to treat your frame so that you reduce the possibility of it ever rusting again, drill out every rivet until you have each piece separate. Sandblast each part, apply several coats of paints, put it all back together and keep it in a climate controlled room where it can be admired for generations to come. Or you can take reasonable steps to minimize rust, get it on the road and enjoy it.

The reason the word enamel is caps and underlined is because it's a hyperlink to a photo of my frame which I scraped, wire brushed and painted with Rustolium enamel.

oh cool - I didn't realize that was a photo. So you just cleaned it up and used a wire brush on a grinder or drill? Could you tell me what you used to prime and paint it (brand, type, specifically?). I'd like it if mine looked like that.

I kind of simplified the kinds of tools I used. Actually, I used anything I could find to scrape the crud off and then I slathered it down as much as possible with mineral spirits before painting. I used screwdrivers, scrapers, rotary and hand held wire brushes, dental picks... the places you have to clean will dictate the tool.

I have PICTURES here if you want to see what I did. Firewall forward is the worse because of all the dried on grease and oil. Once get back past that there's not much to deal with.

I put down a total of three coats of Valspar (Tractor Supply) Gloss Black applied with an HVLP detail gun. Don't waste your time with aerosol cans... way too expensive and the paint is MUCH thinner than what you can apply with a gun. Thin the paint with the thinner recommended on the can.

It took me three days to accomplish... a Memorial Day Weekend. This was the first real "get in there and get something done" project and it changed my whole attitude toward the mountain of work ahead of me. After seeing the frame all painted I just knew I had to finish this, no matter what.

And I'm still slugging it out and a year more to go.

ok, couple questions, I want to make sure I get this.

So you didn't get it down to bare metal first - you just got as much crud and rust off as you could? Could you see any rust then or is that why you used the mineral spirits? (I saw the photos, but not sure how clean it was before painting).

second, did you have to prime it first? We have a tractor supply so I should be able to get what I need.

Thirdly, I have a friend who has a paint gun and a compressor I think will run it (26 gal from Tractor Supply) moderately well. But I don't have anything fancy like what they put on the compressor to make sure no moisture gets in when using air tools. Should I get something for that?

Lastly, how long did you wait between layers of paint or does it say on the can?

Thanks for any info - I'm at this point where I have the motor I want in it. All the sheet metal and cab is off. I've either got or know people who have the mechanical expertise I need to do this. The "body work" is where I am totally running scared. Maybe when I get this I'll be like you and have the drive to really get going on it.

By the way, I looked at a lot of your photos. I really liked how you put them all online. I think if you don't mind I'm going to use them a lot in the future. They look like they might really be invaluable to me if you don't mind. Any chance you could just come to Nebraska and help me out? Ok, probably not, but thought I'd ask

I was very meticulous with my cleaning and scraped every speck I found. I find this sort of work to be very therapeutic, you may not. Perhaps you know someone with a pressure washer? I understand that those work very well too. Actually there was very little rust to be found forward of the firewall probably due to the grease and oil that had been splattering on it forever. THIS is what it looked like when I was finished scraping. The mineral spirits was used to remove any oily residue before painting.


No primer, but I would recommend treating with EASTWOOD RUST CONVERTER in the aerosol can. Very easy to use and is effective. The bulk quart and gallon cans are economical but you can't reach everything with a brush.



I wouldn't worry about that for now. Chances are you won't have a problem but if you do it's not like you're putting color on the finished exterior. It's pretty humid around here and I don't have a problem.

I'm not sure what kind of situation you have there but or how much of this work you plan to do yourself but you're going to be hard pressed to get through rebuilding your truck without a "good" compressor. I bought one of THESE and fitted it with one of THESE and it seems to work well. I've never had any moisture come throgh the line when painting so far but will get a dedicated air line for when I do my finish painting.


I believe 10 minutes should be good. Enamel takes overnight to fully dry so it's kind of hard to screw that part up. You just want the previous coat to tack over... just moderately sticky. This will let each coat intermingle with the previous without being so we that it runs. It's really hard to screw this up so relax.


Feel free... that's why they're there.


No problem, I'll have my manager contact you to make arrangements. You do have a 5-star hotel with limo service nearby, don't you?

thanks a bunch! (I'll have to 'get back to you' about the hotel....:0)

you might want to have it quoted for the liquid rust remover stuff. I've heard of www.rustremoval.biz and www.evaprust.com

have you used these?

Paul, I'll throw my 2 cents in. If you have a trailer place around that builds utility trailers, stop in and see if you can buy a gallon or so of their trailer paint (or visit a Sherwin Williams). They will have a little bit higher end metal enamel than the valspar stuff for not much more money. The last pipe fence I painted used low gloss valspar and it lasted about a year and was faded and not looking good at all. As far as the cleaning, my last restoration ( a 79 jeep cj7) I pressure washed the whole frame and then wire brushed the frame with a wire cup on a 4-1/2" grinder. Shot it with the Rustoleum industrial grade low gloss stuff that they sell at home depot. 5 years and lots of black dirt and water later, its still on there. lost some shine, but no rust. as for the 26 gallon air compressor - shot the whole jeep, including the base/clear paint job with a 20 gallon 5hp coleman job. just use a large (3/8") air hose that is as short as you can get away with. Air guns need CFM, not just pressure. supply that gun with air, and take breaks periodically to let it catch up. Also, go to harbor freight or similar and pick up a few $3 inline disposable air dryers. its worth the money. take your time. the quality of the paint job is not just in the paint or the painting. your success will come from the time spent in preparation making sure there are no contaminants - oil, grease, water, etc.

good luck.

Home Depot sells a gallon of some acid etch stuff for less than $20 (I think it's phosphoric). That should most definitely cover your entire frame and then some. Cheap insurance and easy to brush on and rinse off. That kills the little rust deposits you can't get to unless you blast it. After blasting my frame in my driveway, I will 100% side with woody on this one to just clean it up, and then etch it with the stuff I mentioned, and that'll probably be as good as blasting it (or better given the $ and time savings).

i used por 15 on my frame with great results

Lots of info and opinions, of which I agree with just about all of them. But to give you some "reassurance" here is my story.

On my first vehicle,37pickup, I took it to a car wash and pressure washed all the grease and gunk off that I could see. Then I took it home and, like Woody, did the steel brush cleaning method. Primed it with Rustoleum primer, then painted it with aresol gloss black enamel Rustoleum. Now, 10 years later it still looks good.... but it does sit in side, and yes, its been in the rain several times. I drive it regularly.

My second vehicle,52 Panel, sandblasted the frame myself, on hot August days, and then put a good coat of POR15 on it. Since all my kids are now out of college ect I had just a few more dollars than when I did my 37 so its moved along better. PLUS all the Knowledge/kindness and helpfulness of guys here on the STOVEBOLT. They have been grrrreat.

In looking back, and looking forward my next one....if there is a next one, I will take the chassis and pay to sand blast it. Then I will use the POR15 on it again or if I have the money I will have it powder coated. My local powder coated said he could blast it clean and powder coat one for $450.
I really lean toward the POR15 on a nicely blasted chassis. Its tough as nails.

So, in the end it usually boils down to $$$ and what you are expecting or what you want your truck to look like, what it means to you and in some cases the time frame. I spent over 5 years on my 37 and would love to do it again using all the things I've learned over the years. On the other hand I have been on my panel "only" 3 1/2 years and I'm getting close to being done...... both different due to TIME and MONEY.

Good luck on your project. Let us know what you decide and keep us posted.

Agreed. If had it to do over again there would be a LOT of things I'd do different. I'd find the most rust free specimen in original condition and completely disassemble it, have the frame and all body parts dipped and treated and start from there to rebuild it back to its original stock condition.

But I'd still paint the frame with enamel.

I started out sandblasting the rear frame rails, it became clear to me that if you are going to use por15 that this is not necessary so I stoppped this process. Por15 encapsulates the rust so you don't need to completely clean to bare metal. Use their marine clean to get grease/oil removed and follow with the metal etch. Then paint brush the stuff on. There might still be a few spots where you take a wire brush or drill with a with a rust removal disc to, but they are few. The Por15 way saves time and money in my opinion. No disrespect to those who blasted and painted their frames intended. I also agree with Woody in that the frames are built well to last and their is a point where you are overkill. Guess' a lot depend on if you are building a driver or a trailer queen.