The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk Newer 16" X 6" 6-lug wheels for older truck?

I recently was given a standard RWD '54 Advance Design 3100 pickup having a PTO 4-speed and closed axle. She's a functioning, and relatively original work truck, not a Sunday toy. Her original wheels were probably 16" X 4 1/2" split-rims shod with 6.50-16 tires & tubes, but somewhere along the line were replaced with a set of 15" tubeless wheels - but still old-school, with cap tangs & original caps and rings. It is past time for tires, and I would prefer to run a set of tall & skinny 235/85-16s. These are 32" O/D and would shave 100 rpm off the existing tire diameter, improving cruise speed. The narrow tread patch, better ground clearance, improved performance in mud and snow, and E-load rating of the new tall/skinny tires would all be a plus too. There are many commercial-duty tire styles to choose from in this specific size.
The question is how to do the wheel conversion economically. Correct new bare steel wheels would cost at least $250 apiece by the time shipping, tax, paint, and new-style caps/trim to fit them are added.

A buddy mentioned that there are later model 1/2-ton Chevy 4x4 wheels in 16" diameter that also have 6-lug centers, but we are unsure of the widths, offsets, and lug diameters of those later wheels.

A 6" wide wheel would be the ideal, but 6 1/2" or even 7" would work - nothing wider.
Does anyone know if/what/which year model wheels might work?

Original wheel specs for reference:

Lugs: Six 7/16-20 studs on 5 1/2" center.
Offset: 9/16"
Center hole dia: Unknown, but must be smaller than late 4x4 hubs require.
I would guess the original setup was probably lug-centric?

I'm not concerned with period authenticity so the later alloy styles would be fine, and If steel, I don't mind the later cap and trim styles.

So, what works? What is common and cheap?

Thanks you guys -

Best,
Phil

I guess it depends on what you mean by 'later'. The most recent wheels, starting in the late 90's actually have a metric lug circle and though the are very close they are not the same pattern.

That change occurred in maybe '99? The '88 to '98 trucks both 1/2-ton and light 3/4-ton have 6-lug wheels and commonly are 16 inch about the width you are looking for.

However those wheels have a bit of offset that may cause problems on your '54 by hitting the tie rod.

Steve is right, the 6 bolt wheels that Chevrolet 1/2 ton 4X4's used are to wide and will interfere with the tie rod end for sure. They are also to wide for the rear and may cause interference also. Look around for some narrow wheels or start making other changes.

There was no change in the bolt circle, it's still 6x5.5. The problem is that they went to a FWD style backspacing when they went to IFS on the 4x4 trucks. That draws the wheel in too far for use with the earlier trucks. That change was in late '87, when the '88 GMT400 trucks came out. About the only GMT400 wheel that is both 6 lug and uses the older style backspacing would be the '88-'92 C2500 light duty. The 4x4 used the mentioned FWD offset, and HD 2500s were 8 lug.

Hey thanks for the info. Since posting yesterday, I did find an online reference to an OEM wheel that may work, but no offset info is available. It is a 2WD 16X6 truck wheel having the 6-on-5.5" lug pattern, but no offset info is available. The wheel has 14mm stud bores though, so my original 7/16 studs would have to be up-sized to around 9/16".

See the following cross-reference chart, the listed wheel is specified for 1996-7 Chevy/GMC G-series 3/4 ton van:

http://www.roadkillcustoms.com/hot-...amp;StudSpreadInch=5.5&StudSpreadMM=

I'm trying to find out now what the offset of this wheel is.

I imagine a set of 12-13 year-old steel Chevy van wheels might be pretty cheap and easy to come by.

Of course, if anyone out there knows the offset of this wheel, let me know.

Tanks Again,
Phil

I don't know the offset of that particular wheel, but van wheels tend to have negative offset, meaning the wheel resembles a front wheel drive wheel with most the tire inside of the hub.

You'll want to confirm what these wheels are, but likely they will rub on the tie rod in front and possibly the bed in the rear.

Just checked the spec book, offset isn't correct. Also, the years of van listed are 8 lug, not 6. You have to get into the '03 G1500 van to get 6 lug, and those are also the incorrect offset.

Thanks Bill,
That being the case, another way I could still save a few bucks might be to find a cheap set of original 16" drop-center wheels for their centers, and weld a 6" wide later rim to them for the offset & width I need. I think the rebuilt wheels would be about 4" larger in diameter than I can swing on my lathe, so I'll have to come up with an alternative way of checking true after tacking them up, but I can figure that out.

Thanks for the help guys. If I come up with a simpler solution I'll post it. Otherwise, when I obtain the wheels/parts I'll try and put together a photo stream of the conversion and post it here for others that might be interested in building their own set of custom wheels.

Best,
Phil

Aren't a lot of the Toyota trucks and 4x4s 6-lug? Not sure if they would be okay for offset, but it's another path to search.

An FYI -
I just had another idea that might simplify labor and finding the base materials. Instead of turning 8 wheels into 4:

Since the later wheels are all wider than the ideal 6-6 1/2" width I am looking for (most are 7-8"), I may be able to reduce both the width and unwanted offset simultaneously from a later wheel by cutting rim material from behind the inside bead on a lathe. We used to do just the opposite of this back in the day, when nobody made big wheels for our 'new' wide-pattern baja bugs . . . jeez I'm getting old . . .
A buddy of mine may have a lathe that could swing them, so I could do the deed at his shop in a couple of Saturday morning sessions.

I would just have to find the later wheels that would end up with the ideal offset after being narrowed.

Any specific wheels come to mind?

Phil

Well my first thought is to take one of the 90's wheels and mount it on the truck to check clearance. If its a 7 inch wheel and less than an inch of interference with anything, then modifying it to create a 6 inch wheel would do the job.

What hub caps do you want to run? That might limit your choice of centers and help clarify your choices.

Thanks for the thought on Toyota, I'll check it out, but in the dark recesses of my memory having owned a little Toyota-based 4X4 Chinook motorhome, there was something different Toyota wheels. All I remember was that Mine was outside the factory recall when her dual wheels began cracking at the welds between rim and center. After some research, I ended up having to buy two Toyota factory wheels that were just as expensive as they sound. But those were 15", and a long time ago. I have no idea what the Japs have been up to since. . . though I see recalls are back in style at Toyota.

Phil

OldSub -

As mentioned in original post, I'm not concerned much with trim style . . or really any trim at all, but I guess when thinking about it I do like the later 'nipple' centers with bowtie that sport the fake lug pattern covering the real lugs. As I recall those could include the beauty rings if desired .. or not . . :-)

And obviously a steel wheel . .

as well as toyotas, mitsubishi pu, isuzu pu, nissan pu, a lot of imported pu and suvs have the 6 lug wheels...

have to be carefull using the Import truck wheels. While they will bolt up fine, depending on width, they may rub the drag link on a hard left turn, as the backspacing is a bit deeper than the GM trucks.

Stockton Wheels will take your wheels and widen them. Have no idea of the cost but they will make any width you want.

Thanks for the replies LONGBOX55 & oldblu49, interesting note on the Jap stuff, though I would wonder how accurate their metric lug holes are to my existing 7/16-20 lugs, since this is a lug-centric wheel setup . . .and on the subject of Stockton Wheel, here's the deal with that - they want $165 for a bare wheel! Not very competitive pricing I discovered after talking to a very helpful guy by the name of Joe at Wheel Viniques up in Fresno. These guys seem to have most of what American vintage guys are looking for. They have new smoothie, and even 'rally' center styled wheels in stock that have the exact dimensions I'm looking for, at $90 & change each. Also, an FYI for others here, they've also recently began offering a gorgeous repro of the 40's GM 'Artillery' style wheels in a variety of widths, diameters, and offsets, though these are more expensive.
In the mean time, a friend living down in Baja mentioned he had a nice original set of 50's Chevy 16" 6-lug truck wheels he would bring up for me before the start of hurricane season this year. He'll be delivering them in a 1966 Chevy chassis-cab Chinook motorhome he is giving me. What is it with free old trucks? You get one, and others come out of the woodwork! Fortunately the motorhome has a fresh set of Michelin radials and a late disc brake conversion, so I won't be adding more tires and brakes to my budget.

OOPS! How rude of me . . I failed to acknowledge ctrworker's help
Thanks!

Best,
Phil

I've been through this issue with my 6 lug 46 and recently now the 8 lug 53 3600. There are several suppliers that will build you 6 lug rims to suit your needs, Stockton wheel, Pete Paulson's , Wheel Vintiques and many more. Other options; wheel spacers to move the rim outward, Chevs of the 40's more modern tie rod ends (I found out the hard way this does not fit the 3/4 ton) but would help on a half ton. On my 46 half ton we used an old Ford tie rod (has modern ends), drilled out the ball, had to taper the hole to fit modern ends and shorten the rod.

Look at my signature below, 215 85R 16's on stock rims, 45K miles on a daily driver this combination.

JiMerit . .: The rod-end mod sounds like a lot of work to get rims to fit, but then you know that . . . now :-))

Cosmo: I must be missing something, I got the impression there was some kind of image of wheels/tires? None found. In any case, the 215/85-16 would not quite be the diameter I'm hoping for, and there are 15" tires of similar height available that I could use on the truck's existing wheels. In your case, you have a much more highway friendly axle ratio than I, not to mention OD - cool! so your situation is quite different. I'm not even considering messing with this truck's closed driveline, and I love the heavy duty 4-speed it came with - wish I had the PTO setup though . .. In the past few months alone, I have pulled 3 tree stumps out of the ground with this truck. The low 1st gear & 4.56 axle is an awesome combination. With PTO I could have run a 'green saw' to slice up the logs and stumps on-sight. Maybe next year . .

Ok, I totally solved my wheel problem the old fashioned way . . . with dumb luck.
Today I was working around the property and took a minute to look closer at the tires/wheels on this hand-me-down truck. It turns out that the fronts are 15" wheels, whereas the rears are 16" wheels, and both rear tires are different sizes! Both sets are old original looking wheels. Then I remembered that somewhere at the back of the property were some 15" AND 16" pairs or threes - both tires and wheels, so I went hunting. Now before you wonder what kind of maroon wouldn't know what tires and wheels he had lying around, keep in mind that for the past 3-4 months this truck and I have been pretty buisy humping loads of every description from this property to the dump, toxic waste recovery, and elsewhere - that's 80+ years of someone else's accumulation. And accumulate they did, everything from sink parts to steam engines! So far I have been fortunate not to have chucked or given away something I needed or should have kept. It turns out the odd wheels and tires I originally saved at a glance were: Three 16X5.5 matching wheels to what the rear of the truck has on it - that gives me 4 and a spair. Also there are the other two 15X4.5 wheels/tire to match whats on the front of the truck. Then just an hour ago I found the fifth of those, without a tire. As a bonus, in a totally different shed across the property, I found a box full of stainless beauty rings in both sizes, enough to jazz up all 10 wheels and they're in perfect shape - woohoo!!
And tripping over providence once again, in the last post I had waxed about the truck's wonderful SM420 4-speed. That got me thinking there was some kind of transmission around here too, but I remembered it being different somehow so I didn't mentally connect it to the 54. There were other trucks on the property at the time it could have belonged to. I just now dug it out, and it appears to be a later model SM420 having an output shaft brake, and 7-digit casting number. This just might be a direct replacement for the one in the truck, but having a synchro 1st gear and shaft brake - a very cool find. It also has a homemade cover plate on the PTO port, so maybe I'll find the PTO gear in one of the other sheds I haven't sorted through yet.

Thanks again to everyone for the kind thoughts and suggestions, I know the good vibes here helped tease the parts from their hiding places, if not the recesses of my mind.
I'm already putting aside a small pile of freebees for my fellow Bolters as I go through stuff. I see 3-4 carburetors, a few manifolds, and a spare 235 engine so far. I haven't found the head for motor yet though. When I get a list together I'll post it.

Green, sorry I didn't read your post real well, glad to see you are a hauler and will really work the truck. Congrats on the finds. No I didn't have a link to what the wheels look like via a picture.

Hey man,
No worries, it was nice to read about your truck. Here's a funny one for you - one of the mismatched tires on the rear of this truck presently IS a 215/85-16 as suggested, but the other is a 245/75-16. They are also different brands having a 1/2" difference in diameter. Can you imagine what this would do to a modern axle with limited slip? Wow . . and of course they are tubeless radials, whereas the fronts are bias-ply with tubes . .and 1 1/2" smaller in diameter. To some degree this reduces caster angle on the front - not ideal for straight-line stability.
I'm spending a few minutes right now looking at new tires online, but it's an incredibly gorgeous, spring-like morning here after rains last night, so outdoor adventures await!
Best,
Phil