The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop New to the HiPo Shop opinions please

Hello everyone,

I have a 51 3100 that is currently stock. It runs and drives and that is what I wanted right now. Down the road I would like to put a 350 and 700R4 in it. I am on a tight budget and wonder if I need to go the whole IFS route. I would plan on swapping out the rearend for something more modern and do a disc brake conversion on the front at least.

Are there any problems with keeping the stock front end and using a 350? Weight? Terrible handling problems? etc.

I want to use the truck to cruise with comfortably with the occasional trip on the interstate.

I apologize for the long post but I am new at this and respect the opinions of those on this board.

Thank you for your time.

Chris

Engine wise you will only be adding about 65 lbs more when you go to the small block.
You can add power disk to your existing suspension.
EDIT: 5-19, I believe I was wrong on the weight. As LONGBOX mentioned below, I think the difference is lighter!! Sorry.

I think the answer to your question may be answered by knowing what shape your existing front end it in. Hows the king pins, how are the springs and the shackles???
Your steering gearbox will also have to be moved over about 2" unnless you go with something else as headers will hit the gearbox.
Here is a snapshot of what I've done/doing.
I have a 52 panel that I'm putting a small block in and the ONLY thing the Previous owner did was rebuild the front end ......meaning new king pins and bushings, couple new springs, re-arched a few, and put the poly liners between springs....along with new wheel cylinders, brakes and such.
Therefore I decided to keep it original.
I bought a set of the motor mounts that fit and bolt (or weld) inside the existing chassis without having to use a crossmember. The mounts come with instructions. You can see them in my photobucket below.
I'm also putting power steering on it using a power steering gearbox off a 1974 pickup ($116 with my flaps discount) and a "conversion kit" from one of the vendors. ($95) I'm using a 1968 steering column so I will have turn signals but the switch will still be in the original location in the dash.

You will have to move the steering box over as the gearbox and headers will hit. I'm using a set of 283 headers but a set of block huggers will also work..... I've heard a set of old 265 headers will work but I do not know if they will work without moving the gearbox. I don't have a set to try.

Since I have to move the steering box anyway I prefer the 283 headers as they clear the gearbox and are not as close to the engine as the block hugger headers.
I read on here recently you can buy the Corvette headers for $55 each but forgot what model..... its the "ram horn" style same as the 283 headers.

Hope all this helps and don't confuse you. I'm sure others will chip in.
I have a couple links that are pretty good that some one listed here on the bolt for the power steering conversion. If you would like them let me know.

EDIT: you can pull out your torque tube and put in a center pumpkin from a 55 through 62 which will get from a 4:11 rearend to a 3.90 from the 55 and if you can find it some later models like the 62 have a higher gear like maybe a 3.73......if I remember correctly. I have a 56 rearend (3.90) in my panel.
Lots of other options. Some rear ends with disc like you suggested........ if you look around the tech tips you will find a list of donor rearends from a lot of cars, and trucks, with the correct width.

Others will chime in and correct me if I'm off on some of my "numbers". I'm getting to old to remember a lot of this stuff!!!

I am runninmg a SB 350 and 700R4 in my 55 2nd.I am also still using the stock 3:90 rearend which works out just fine with the 700R4 Overdrive setup. 20 MPG all day long.I also changed my frontend over to a TCI independent suspension,with disc brakes and power R&P steering.A little pricey,but man the ride and handling is just fine.There are several different ways to go with independent suspension,but I would highly reccomend swapping the frontend out.

I live in Vegas and I'm concerned in keeping up with the city traffic and swerving to miss the Idiots if need be and if I have to stop It sure feels good knowing that I got power brakes to assist me in doing that.
SO...I'M also running a 350 / 700r4 and I also installed a stock Trans AM rear end W/disc brakes and I went with the Heidts IFS with power steering on my 51
Like Dale said " I would highly recommend swapping the front end out" It's pricey but while your replacing the engine and Trans it's the prime time to install the IFS, You'll be glad you did
If not there's also upgrades for the stock setup for handling and braking.

Properly rebuilt, the stock frontend actually handles very nicely. Nothing against those who went IFS, but personally, I prefer the stock setup. It's much stronger, and will allow you to still use it a a truck if need be. There's upgrades available to help the handling and braking issues, adding a front sway bar really helps. There's also one available for the rear, which again, improves the handling greatly.
One more thing, the Smallblock Chevy weighs 41 pounds LESS than the 235, so weight is a non-issue.

I can and have at various times taken both sides of this one.

How are you going to use and drive the truck? Start with an answer to that question. The rest of it will all come from that answer.

The old truck I drive most often is stock in front except for disk brakes and mag wheels. I enjoy driving it just the way it is. The one I'm currently building will be an IFS.

I know why for me each approach made good sense and its based on how I want to use the trucks.

I like the stock front end on my '56. It drives like a truck is supposed to. No power steering either. I have to get my exercise somewhere.

if you want want to ride like a bmw, then buy one.........

keep it stock , keep the six, change out the rear end and
you are good to go...........where is cosmo when we need him..

Why didnt I think of that...... Hmmm......
Errr wait......"Maybe I was...Thinking about a "hotrod", "street rod" or other "custom work"? Stop in here. Shoot, we'll even talk about "power brakes", "power steering" and (dare I say it, even one of them there CD players) LOL !! (just "joking" with you)
That musta been what I was going for THE REAL DEAL "to me"

Go for it Chris, Build what you can afford AND HAVE FUN DOING IT... "THAT'S" what it's all about !

PS... Keep Posting them Pictures We like pictures SWEET 51 & NICE OLDS !!!

Currently I'm runnin a 350/350 setup with Cadillac IFS, and a rear axle out of a 76 malibu (trailing arms removed) and love it for cruisin and keepin up with modern highways...Heck she will run at 90 if ya want at low RPM's
One thing to consider as I am now, is the NEED for a sway bar on an IFS I do not have any sway bars yet.
My truck does not handle the hard curves real well as it has a high COG an likes to roll just a bit to far for me and I would like to settle that down, the sway bars are my next project.
I see no Reason why you cannott proceede with your plans other than the fact of when you decide to do the IFS you will have to tear it all apart again.
I like to do it once, but you can do it in stages.
Tim

I'm doing mine in stages too. I think it's best if you did do an IFS swap too, because I tell you what, these are some really BAD handling trucks. Hit a good road rut and it will really open your eyes. Along with that, I strongly recommend modernizing your brake system. Then if you don't want your rpms too buzzy, it would be a great idea to get a taller rear end too.

If you have a 1/2 ton, then you're in luck, because Speedway motors has all kinds of stuff for all the items I've mentioned above. But it all seems to be for 5-lug wheels, nothing for 8-lug. On my 3/4 ton, it would seem that I'm on my own.

The stock steering system suffers from bump steer. It really does need to be changed. And the stock truck tires on split rims aren't known for their handling either. You could get old-style wheels that accept modern rubber from Wheel Vintiques, ordered through Summit Racing.

One other thing you'll want to do if highway driving is in your future is a very concerted effort to insulate your truck cab. You don't know road noise until you've been on the highway in your stovebolt.

But yes, you can do it project by project like I'm doing. It just takes longer. I dream about the day when I'll someday be done with this project and can just enjoy it. But maybe some of the enjoying is doing it myself.

"But maybe some of the enjoying is doing it myself"
Very well put!

Yeah Chris, you build you a outrageous rod. Put a big block in there with a 700R4 and a big supercharger. Don't forget to cut the top off the cab and make it a convertible. Take some good pictures and post them here on the HI-PO forum. After all it is the "high performance" forum and this is the place for rod builders to discuss non original stuff.

Yeah...What he said

The whole 'ethos' of Hi-Po,Rodding or whatever you choose to call it is,taking an early vehicle and improving the performance,steering brakes etc.
That's what the young guys returning from WW2 did. They missed the adrenaline buzz.
Imagine...one day your flying a P-51 Mustang,the next your driving a clapped out Deuce coupe....HMMMMM ? I gotta make this thing faster!
You will always 'clash' with the resto guys,but it's your truck.
Do as you see fit.....

The way I look at it is, it's another old truck saved from the crusher and is on the road!
Even I agree there are trucks that shouldn't be messed with,i.e. pristene 'survivors' but most these days are in need of a lot of TLC.
So where's the harm on improving on 40/50 year old (or older) technology?

To the 'unwashed masses' my truck looks 'old' but I know it'll go round corners and stop when I want it to!
Plus it'll be nicer to drive on the battlegrounds we call roads nowadays!
As they say, Different strokes for different folks!
Build your truck to suit your requirements.
Good Luck

Yeah, what he said too!!!!

Yeah, What they said !!

lol i fully disagree with independent front ends being best "or" the only way to go i have driven straight axle trucks that handled far better then most of your independants, and aside from the fact your destroying the vehical for future gens "face it we are all wormfood someday" its really unessary every advantage you can name you get from a IFS set up i can do on a straight axle plus i don't have as much stuff that can go wrong or where out and my frame remains unchoped too many ppl these days are going for what the think is the easy way out or following the crowd be different build a straight axle.

I am keeping my straight axle under the front of my truck. I am used to poor handling vehicles and I am way too lazy and cheap for a IFS swap. That said there is no way your ever going to get the type of ride you can out of IFS out of a straight axle.

I say do what ever you gotta do to enjoy it. If that means IFS, air conditioning, and a killer stereo system go for it Most of my vehicles end up "Cubanized" with many different makes of parts pieced together. I buy old vehicles to drive and have fun, not to win any shows.

You ask for opinions and opinions is what you get...

I'll say it again, it all starts with a clear idea how you want to use your truck. From there you can figure out which solution will make the most sense for you.

Thanks for all the different views on this. I got some really good ideas. I appreciate all of you taking the time to help out a newbie in this area.

Chris

Just to touch base on this. My suggestion was not only based in personal opinion, but also from the original post stating that the build is on a budget. Refurbishin g the original frontend would be the least expensive way to go, and properly done, will handle very well. New bushings, kingpins, modern/rebuilt tie rods, add a sway bar F&R, a set of gas shocks, and modern radial tires, and they handle very nicely. It's also far less work.

I've seen a '55 T-bird in Cuba with a 1600cc Lada engine!

Cubanized? Didn't a Cuban engineering student turn a stovebolt AD truck into an ocean-going BOAT? I think I remember that not too many years ago.

...Hmmm, I wonder how many beautiful examples of original stovebolt trucks there are sitting in Cuba though...

Same here. I was pleasantly surprised after rebuilding my front end. Parts were very affordable and the job was very easy. Well worth the effort.

If you choose to take the IFS route, at least choose a suspension system that's engineered to handle the weight and height of a truck. Putting a suspension system that was originally designed for a subcompact car under a vehicle the size of a stovebolt is borderline irresponsible, and definitely a poor choice. Even the M-II suspension systems that have been "upgraded" are woefully short of capacity if the vehicle is intended to do more than be trailered to a car show and collect a trophy on occasion. A narrowed real truck front crossmember or at least a Camaro/Nova setup is at least safe to drive, and these systems were designed for mid-size cars with V-8's from the get-go.
Jerry

I agree with Jerry. Speedway sells Mustang II suspensions for trucks! I am under the impression that trucks are generally bigger, heavier, handle larger loads, and have to be tougher. If I were going the IFS route, I'd probably be looking for a '70's C-10 or something of a similar vintage to use as a donor vehicle.

If your talking about pulling a front end out of a mustang or pinto for an AD I agree they may be a little light for a 1.5 ton that carries logs out of the forest.

Most ADs with IFS are not hauling loads. Additionally they probably have a sbc V8 in there which is some 80 lbs. lighter than the original 6 cyl. If their IFS is from a reputable company like TCI or Heidts which is designed to work in their particular application and is installed according to the mfg. directions it will be as dependable as any Detroit design.
My 2 cents...

lol well i tend to disagree your talking bout a design taken from a car that even with a hemi in it wouldn't weigh as much as a AD truck without engine further more its common knowledge that pre 70 detroit over engineered their cars and truck after 1970 cheaper faster .. good enough was the token term

Hotrod Lincoln's got it right, the nova setup I have under the '52 was well worth the $225 for "BOTH" front stub, and rearend from same donor car!! The '79 nova offerd both six and 8 cyl. engines. The hardest thing you will do with a swap like this is think, think, measure, think, sleep on it, think, measure, and when you "know" where it needs to go, cut "ONCE", and weld. Now u will have power disc brakes, power steering options, your highway gearing, options for 6 cyl. "OR" V-8 engines, and really nice in the weeds stance. Before I went this route I did completely rebuild the stock front end, and for me becuase of where I need to drive it just wasn't enough. If youre out in the country and you need get on the binders to save the life of bugsbunny once in a while, thats fine but I gotta contend with "Miss Daisy" cuttin me off in rush hour traffic (Denver). My point is, for the least amount of money, least amount of work(physical), its a good option. By the way once u change one clutch head screw or swap the 216 for a 235 etc. your not original any more, so why not live a little, treat yourself to a comfortable ride and some safety!!! just my humble opinion ya roll how ya gotta roll brother. Peace

I just stumbled onto this article and thought it might help all those out that were thinking about swapping to a IFS. Part of it was written by one of our Bolters, Scott Danforth. This may be in the Tech section, if not it should be.
Sorry if this duplicates what has been said.
http://www.chevytrucks.org/tech/63-87_ifs_upgrade/index.htm