The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 216 Engine Damage

I am looking at buying a 1953 Chevy 3600 pickup. According to the owner, the engine was rebuilt in the early 70's. Sometime in the early 80's, he pulled the spark plugs with the intention of replacing them, but never did. So the engine has been sitting, unrun, without spark plugs, since the early 80's.

The engine has always remained in the truck, which was stored in a barn in the mid 80's then outside under a tarp for the last couple years. Is there any hope for the engine, or is it going to be more expensive to repair it than buy a running 235 for it?

The truck is a couple hour drive away, so I have not been able to pull the head yet.

Here is a pic of the plug side of the engine: Engine Pic

oooh ,hot topic

All will tell you unless you are going for original get a 235.

If it's not stuck lube the cylinders a little and give it a try, what do you have to lose. If it is junk be sure to keep the water pump and balancer for the 235 transplant.

Ferndale,

#1: Anyone who leaves an engine with no plugs in it for 20+ years is an ABSOLUTE KNUCKLE HEAD! :mad:

#2: From the looks of the outside of the engine, the inside will be terrible. When I tore open my 216, it even had rust damage in the cylinders, and had NOT been abused like the one your considering! Seems like there would be many issues with it, not just the cylinders.

#3: ON THE OTHER HAND, I find an abandoned truck like this, especially with open plug holes for 20 years sitting outside, IRRESISTIBLE!!! I figure these 216s are not going to be around forever. I believe in striving for originality whenever possible, AND . . .

What have you got to lose?!! What's the worst that can happen: You blow the engine?!! Big deal - you've had some fun trying, and now you're back to square one. Nothing lost. AND, if you DO get it running, WOW!!! What a feeling!!! And WHAT A STORY!!!

Oh well. my thoughts, anyway.

-Michael

Get it, fix it, have fun.

Squirt some PB in the cylinders, let it sit for a while & see if it'll turn over. If the rings aren't frozen to the wall you might get lucky. As noted above you're not out anything but time if it doesn't work.

I have rebuilt two 216 engines, and Have one in the barn, and I am picking up another tomorrow- They are good engines and will run forever, as long as you keep the lubed up, and do not drive them to hard. With both engines(the first sat unused for 7 years) I used a heat gun to heat the oil pan up to pretty hot, then took out the drain plug, then I pulled them apart from the top down. Bagging and cataloging, lots of pictures are a great idea as you go- I used the 1947-51 truck shop manual exclusively for this work.
I did not pull the pistons all the way out- I loosened the cranks with the engine upside down to look at the bearings. There was no visible damage or excessive wear. The cylinder walls were very clean and there was no noticeable scratches or out of polish areas. I then re tightened the crank- and replaced all the gaskets- Chev's of the 40's has a kit that I use every time that has the graphoil rope rear main seal, and has good quality cork, paper, and bonded gaskets.
They have a kit that does the entire 216 engine.
I went ahead and put in a new thermostat as well for 180'F
the temp rating is a personal preference some run cooler, some run hotter(engines and owners)
I did coat both sides of the head gasket with nickel antisieze(a trick a refinery uses on pump and compressor gaskets to ensure seal, and clean removal for servicing, just keep it away from the edges of the gasket.)
I then button it all up- also wire wheel/brush the exhaust manifold and intake manifold, replace the spring- nickel antisieze the shaft of the heat riser shaft(the manifold heater thing) then put a fresh spring on. I then put then manifolds on- I use assembly lube on every part- the lifters, the push rod ends, everything that moves. I then get it all closed up- and paint it( I use the chev's of the 40's grey color spray paint also- looks good) and paint the whole deal- after wiping down the outside with degreaser- and letting it dry. I paint everything on the engine grey except the fan blades, the crankcase breather, the starter and generator, and distributor- those are black, and my local armature rebuild paints my starters and generators black for me as well as refurbs my manufacturer's tag(delco remy) they come out looking new.

The carb I clean(I use cater W-1) and then oil-bath air cleaner either gets dipped in gasoline/kersoene for cleaning the element(or I replace the element) and the rests gets media blasted, repainted semi gloss black and decal-ed.

It goes quickly because the engines are very basic, and run pretty well.
My 1/2 ton truck has a 216 also, it is original, and except for re-sealing the top end(head and valve cover gasket, side cover gasket, and fresh paint it runs like a champ- cruise at 48mph pretty regularly with my 3 speed column shifter-

I recommend the external oil filter if you don't have one- lots of choices out there- the Fram looks good and just about everyone has decals- or you can find a ac delco unit- orange and blue- Jim carter has the decals for that one- it also looks good.

If you are choosing between the two, I would stick with the 216, and use the money for body work and interior/upholstery. as long as you keep within it operating range it will last a very long time.

Sorry to ramble, but I hope it helps.

I agree with Yelostn 78. The 216 is a great engine. It sounds good, and with a little maintenance, it runs strong. And as for speed, its enough. Every day for me on my 35 mile commute I hit 50 mph for at least five or ten minutes, the rest of it's city driving. With the 5.14 rear end in my truck, I still average 16 mpg. That's as good as any truck I've driven, especially in the city.

I bought a 52 that was in a bard for about 20 years ,its got a 216 in it . I put a set of plugs ,points,cap,rotor button, wires and a new fuel pump and she fired right up!!!! blow a big old rat nest out the exhaust but it still runs everyday. So i think I would have to try it .

SlickT

The picture you posted is rather discouraging. You didn't say if it was stuck or not. Do you know? Even if it is stuck that's not necessarily the end. (The old tractor guys drag 'em out of the fencerows and woods all the time that are stuck and with lots of patience and their choice of penetrating fluid get them to turn over and eventually run.) I suggest you drain the oil. If water or antifreeze comes out first that will tell you something. If only oil drains then there is hope. I would spray/squirt/pour a generous dose of light oil in the cylinders everyday for about a week, then try to turn it over by hand. If it turns by hand then I would re-fill with new oil and try to turn it over with the starter, no spark plugs in it and the valve cover off. If it spins around good with no bad noises, binding, etc. and you can see the valves going up and down then I would try to start it. First disconnect the old gas line from the tank and use a temporay fuel tank/can of new gas with a rubber hose to the fuel pump. Old gas can cause the valves to stick. Basic ignition tune-up - and give it a try. Good luck.

Yelostn,
I wanted to ask about your "rebuilds". You wrote that you didn't pull the pistons all the way out. What did you do about the rings? Please clarify. I would not consider it a rebuild unless you serviced the pistons, rings and cylinders. Thanks.

fill the case up with diesel, let it sit for a week, drain and try it. Looks like the distributor needs some help bad.

i have many old tractors and yes i have got many old farmalls
running that were stuck but to start with that engine looks rough
and i will tell you this a 40s farmall engine is a much better engine than a 40s chevy engine and some of you guys love those 216s
but that splash oil deal dont do it for me i like the 235s myself

I guess then it is not technically a rebuild- just a re-seal, bearing measurement, and cleaning/repaint. I also pull the valves and measure the valve length and check the conditions of the seat and sealing surfaces. If I find any abnormal wear, and abnormal surface polishing, or out of spec compression, then I pull the pistons and check the rings, If those items check out, then I leave them (rings) alone until they give me cause to check them out. I usually check compression once a year, just as an indicator of the cylinder and valve condition. I checked the bore of the cylinder- I also checked the smoothness, and compression, If the Compression was correct, and the cylinder walls were smooth, then I made no changes.

Maybe Inspection would be better.


So not techically a "rebuild"

(Sorry to highjack this thread.)
Yelostn
Thanks for the clarification. The problem I am having with my 50 216 is that even though it has great compression it still smokes some and uses too much oil. I think the oil control rings are frozen/rusted to the pistons and not functioning properly. I have had the oil pan off and what I can see of the cylinder walls look really good. I would think that could be a common problem with a motor that sat un-run for a long time. What's been your experience? Thanks.

Hey Frank50, check your thread, I made a comment already, going to make another.

Welcome ...I would try to get her turned over.You can always change the motor later but hey,you would have some 'Bragging" rights if you can bring it back to life.
BTW,I had a Jeep Cherokee with a 4.0 motor given to me when I first got to Hawaii.Owner swore the engine was seized and no good any more(he had let it sit for about 2 years!).I pulled the plugs,dumped M.M. oil in each cylinder and left it for a week.Turned it over by hand,threw in a new starter and cranked it over with no plugs.Forgot to put rags over the holes and ended up with oil all over the place!!LOL Put in the old plugs and she cranked right up.She is pretty tired now but she still cranks up and she never stranded me in 5 years...Jeff

Well, I finally had the truck delivered on Sunday.

The engine still has oil in it. How much water is mixed in with it, I don't know. I am going to hopefully drain the oil within a week or so and find out. I did, however, pull the valve cover. Here are some pictures of it. Considering it has been sitting for 30+ years, I think that it looks pretty good. Then again, I have been wrong a million times before

Picture 1
Picture 2
Picture 3

What those guys said...

If there is no water in the oil pan, i'd flush it, put on a tuneup kit and see if it runs.

I drained 4 1/2 gallons of water out of my GMC 248 and with a little TLC, now she purrs like a kitten.

Good luck and dont be discouraged!

What in Heaven's Name are all those tubes on top of the Rad?

I expect to see one fuel line (large), and one vacuum advance line (small).

What are the other two?!!

-Michael

I would believe the rebuild story because that head looks spotless to me. I think that you might have a good motor here. Hopefully there isn't too much rust in the cylinders.

If it has a fuel pump with vacuum boost, there would be two additional lines for that. That may be why there are four lines going around the front.

Oops, I just realized I messed up the links to the images Here are the correct images:

Picture 1
Picture 2
Picture 3

I'm putting the marvel mystery oil in the cylinders tommorow and plan on putting fresh oil to replace whatever is in there now. What oil should I be using?

There has been a lot of debate about the correct oil for these old machines. I use 15W40 Rotella and others use straight 30 or 10W30. The oils today are much better than they were in 1950 but there is controversy about the lack of certain additives in modern oil.

I would fill it to the top with (valve cover on) diesel fuel and let it set for a week, drain that then add motor oil. The diesel will really clean things up and loosen them up. Joe

In doing that Joe, is there a chance of uncovering holes that have been sealed by sludge and start leaks?

Rick/

I've had great luck with the Marvel Mystery oil treatment in two different engines that had been sitting for 10+ years. One was a 350, and the other was a 258 straight six in an old Gremlin I was playing around with. The spark plug holes were kind of hard to get to in both of these motors. One of those big syringes, minus the needle, they use at the vet for giving livestock shots works great for shooting a dose into each cylinder.

After I let the stuff set awhile, I turned the engine over by hand a couple of times. You might be able to do it with a breaker bar and socket on the crankshaft pulley. If not, take a flat screwdriver or some other kind of pry bar and turn it over a tooth at a time at the flywheel. It's alot slower, but it gives you alot more leverage if it's really stuck.

As far as the oil to run it on later, everybody has an opinion on it. I've tried several different weights and types over the years in my 235. I just recently tried heavy duty oils normally run in diesel engines, and I'm very happy with the way the engine runs. Seems to really smooth out some of the tappet noise and such. Right now I've got Rotella 15W-40 in it, but I've also tried Delo. No problems with either of them. www.bobistheoilguy.com is a good site for researching oil and lubricants. They've got a forum for oil that is the equivalent of this one for stovebolts as far as useful information goes.

Have fun getting that engine up and running.

/Bobby

I've run into a bit of a problem. I drained the pan and 3 1/2 quarts of an oil / water mix came out. I poured 5 quarts in, and after a minute or so i saw much of it leaking down the distributor side of the engine. I'm guessing at least a quart or two ended up on the ground. I couldn't tell exactly where it was coming from, but alot of oil pooled up where the starter connects to the block. The other side of the block was dry and didn't have any leaks. Any gaskets on these 216s that will cause that much of an oil leak?

Thanks

Yes, the side cover over the pushrods and valve lifters will cause an oil leak right where you described it. It sounds like it's time to pull some sheet metal, at least the valve cover and the side cover, and the oil pan might not be a bad idea, too. Oil and water from the crankcase might indicate a frozen and cracked block, so it's better to find out now before you get a lot of time and effort invested. Fill the radiator with water, and see if any leaks out, either inside or outside. (Leave the oil pan plug out)

I like to use Kroil to free up a stuck engine.

www.kanolabs.com

You can order it direct on their website. Good stuff!
Jerry

Got the side cover off, didn't see any cracks or abnormalities in the block. The gasket was shot, it broke apart and in some parts wasn't installed correctly. I'll get a new gasket for it once I get the engine broken free. Does anyone have an item # for napa for the gasket?

I pulled the distributor today. Considering the amount of dirt and grime it is covered in, and the fact the cap was left off for 30 years, I'd imagine it is no good.

I do, however, have one off the parts truck. The cap was on it, and it appears to be in much better shape. Here is a picture of it: Picture.

Is there any way I can test it to verify it is usable? I am new to this old stuff.

Nothing looks bad there. Ther is some rust on the outside. What counts is whether everythings moves. You should be able to turn the top relative to the bottom some against a spring pressure.

I am trying to break free the engine now. I hit the rocker arms with a rubber mallet to make sure they were free, and all but two of them moved without issue.

Is it safe for me to try to break the engine free with the rockers stuck?

If not, how would I go about getting the rocker arms/valves to move?

If that valve happens to be open, the rocker will be tight and you won't be able to really move it. Generally it is not the rockers that stick but the valves can. If you are worried about stuck valves you can unbolt the rocker arm so that the valves are not in the way.

If I try to free it with stuck valves, am I risking damage?

You can bend the pushrod if the valve is stick pretty tight. I don't think there's enough of a problem with piston-to-valve clearance that a piston could hit the valve, even if it was stuck wide open. Loosen the valve adjusting screws on the rocker arms a few turns if you're concerned with the possibility of sticky valves. You can also put a small pry bar between the rocker arm and the underside of the rocker shaft and see if you can move the valves one at a time.
Jerry

Next time I try to break it free I'll loosen the screws. Last time I tried to break it loose I couldn't seem to get a pry bar in the flywheel teeth that well, and I was just out looking at the engine now and saw two empty holes on the pully on the front of the engine. If I were to put 2 grade 8 bolts and use a 5ft breaker bar would that be too rough for the engine?

You will probably just break the bolts off, unless you use a couple of short 1/4" pipe nipples and bolt them tight to the front of the pulley before you use the pry bar. That will keep from breaking a bolt off that would be very hard to remove.
Jerry

I'm having a hard time picturing what your saying, there arn't any threads to screw the nipples into. Or do the nippes slide over the bolts?

Lemme clarify a tad:

I was thinking about using 7/16" bolts that don't thread into the holes. They go into the hole about 1/2" deep with only a slight amount of play. If they bolt happened to sheer off, I would be able to remove the remaining bit with a magnet.