The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Electrical Bay battery doesnot charge or loosing charge

Hi all,

I have 52 truck with 58 235 motor. For some reason my battery doesnot charge or keep loosing the juice when I drive in the night. I hate to know that my generator might be bad and how do I test if generator is working correctly.

Any information is appreciated.

Ganesh

Have you tried Polarizing the generator?

smokey truck,

Does your '52 have a functioning ammeter? It should tell you what is going on with the charging system.

It sounds like your generator is working, but barely working. The very first check would be the drive belt. Make sure is isn't oil soaked and tension it properly.

The brushes in the generator wear out and become short. If this happens and they don't contact the commutator sufficiently, the output of the generator can suffer.

Check and clean your battery cables at both ends, charge the battery and give it another try. With a charged battery, a voltmeter should show around 7 + volts when the engine is revved and the meter held on the battery. This indicates the generator is functioning properly.

Do these basic things and see if it solves the problem.

Stuart

Are you still running the 6-volt system? If so, it will be very prone to having a low charge rate if any connections between the generator and the battery are loose or dirty. We used to run a test called a "series resistance check" that involved attaching a low-reading voltmeter from the Armature terminal of the generator to the positive post of the battery (the actual post, not the cable clamp). Any voltage shown on the meter during charging was what was being lost between the generator and the battery due to overcoming the resistance of the connections.

If there is more than 1/2 volt of series loss, for instance 7.0 volts at the generator and 6.5 volts at the battery post, start checking each connection for looseness or corrosion. The Armature and Battery connections at the regulator, both connectors at the ammeter, and the connection where the positive battery cable attaches at the starter are all possible high-resistance connection points. Of course, the most common high resistance connection will be the battery cable clamp itself. Then, do the same test on the ground side, going from the negative battery post back to the generator housing.

It's possible the voltage regulator is interpreting a high-resistance connection as a fully-charged battery, and cutting back on the output of the generator prematurely. I spent 13 years maintaining a 6-volt starting/charging system on a 47 Mercury with an 11:1 compression engine. Everything had to be perfectly maintained, with a high-current battery, before that one would start!
Jerry

It could also be that the battery is the problem. You should put a amp load meter on it that will check it at a load.

All of you thanks guys, I was offline for some time. My truck was converted to 12 volt system by the guy who sold me and I assumed that 235 motor came with 12 volt electrical system and everything works fine as I descrbed the charge keeps droping and I will follow all the suggesstion you guys gave.

Ganesh

Ganesh,

I wrote about the same subject in another forum.

My 1963 HOLDEN was running it's original generator.
Brand new wiring, relay box etc. it worked a treat.

Until I drove it at night in the City.

Just having the headlights, turn signals and brake lights operating at a low engine speed, combined with stop/start driving flattened the battery in no time.

I have since fitted an alternator and have yet to see any problem at all.

Make sure that your battery and voltage regulator are functioning 100% before swapping over to an alternator.

Hi All,

I really appreciate your inputs, I removed my generator and took it to local armature shop and did bench test. I was getting 12v and 25 amp when reved 14 volts and 30 amps was being the output. That guy said my generator is working fine but I still have the problem if I remove battery cable engine quits right a way. Still scratching my head. Any help is appreciated? Since I am new what kind of meters I should buy to check every thing throughly and how much will it run?

If the gen is gening then there must be a short between the gen and the ignition.

smokey-truck,

Is your gen running through the original relay box, or does it have a later model regulator fitted?

Because if this has been done, it will quit when you remove the battery cable.

But none of this should matter as long as the thing is charging properly to start with.

Now you know the generator has been tested and is up to scratch.........look at your voltage regulator and make sure it is functioning properly and getting all that power fed back to your battery.

Someone asked if your amp. meter on the dash is working. When you accel. the engine it should go over to the charge side or at least to the middle depending on the bat. state of charge. Turn the lights on & try it again . It should still go over to the charge side. If it doesn't remove the feild wire from the regulator & ground it. Try accel. the engine again. The charge should go way over. (Don't do this very long). If it does & it doesn't charge when it is hooked up your regulator is defective, providing all the wireing is good. A volt meter is good at checking these. With the voltmeter hooked across the bat with everything off you will have 12-12.5 volts . Start the engine & accel. it . The voltage should go up to about 14 volts. If not do the field ground test again. If it does then, again the reg. or wireing is defective. All this needs to be done with a full charged bat in good condition.

Smokey-Truck,

Unfortunately I'm running into a similar issue. I've got enough juice (about 11V+) to keep it running once she barks to life but enough attempts to crank it over and the battery is toast.

Bought the truck this past Saturday up in Utah. '51 3100 that was someone's non-committed project. At some point in life, a front clip from something (not sure what yet) was hacked in from the firewall forward. It was reputed to be a late 70's Chevelle but I have my doubts. Along with the suspension mod came a 305/350 package out of an '80 pickup (so the numbers say), hence the doubts. Hell, the curves were right and the bondo and cancer was minimal thus the buy. Gotta love a woman in black!

40 miles into my return home I stopped to fuel up and she wouldn't roll over. Well... a trip to the autozone in Mesquite Nevada for a new alternator and I was on my way.

400 miles later I rolled off at my exit about a mile from the house to smell burning electrical. Since he no one ever bothered to get the 6v gauges working again after the repower, the guy I bought the truck from had installed a little 3pack aftermarket gauge deal-e-o which read 10v. :-( Leaving A-Z's parking lot 5 hours earlier I was showing 13+. I knew I baked the regulator as she was still running.

A trip through the electrical under the hood revealed some interesting finds which were subsequently corrected.

Tonight I decided to return to autozone for a new alternator exercising my limited lifetime warranty... made it about 3 blocks this time before I BBQ'd another regulator.

Looking closely under the dash when I got home revealed more "interesting" finds. In light of this and what I've uncovered thusfar, this weekend has been dedicated to a complete rewire on a custom loom including the appropriate pieces to put the stock gauges back in operation. Everything copper is coming out! I'll post to the thread on the outcome. Phase 1 has begun.

As Doc Bob alluded to, make sure your regulator is working correctly. Unfortunately, my history with generators is a part of the dead brain cell clan. From the sounds of what you describe, I'd make sure the regulator is allowing current to flow and there's no wiring curiosities under the hood. Remember the rule, anytime insulation on a conductor looks like grandma's legs in pantyhose, replace it!

A complete rewire sounds like a sound solution!

basic suggestion........make sure the battery is ok and dont have a dead cell, sometimes they still may show 12 volts and be bad


Mesquite Navada, who would have thought it.

According to the best technology that AutoZone can muster.. a little low on charge but battery Ok.

I've had many a battery still giving you a good Volt reading, but as Joker said........a bad cell and they will die as soon as any load is placed on them.

Your overcharging problem can FRY a battery as well.
They DO NOT like heat, and overcharging batteries give off enough to cook your dinner with!

Fix your wiring, but make sure you top it off with a good new battery as well.

Good Luck !

Getting diagnostic work at Auto Zone is like getting brain surgery at a drug store. There's a reason that counter guy is selling discount parts instead of working in a real shop. Find yourself a real pro who can do a test of the full charging system. The few bucks you'll pay for a proper diagnosis will be worth it in the long run, eliminating the frustration factor!
Jerry

If you can find an old generator shop around, that is the kind that has hundreds of old generators laying around and he uses a probe with a 110 volt light bulb to test continuity and use a 6 volt battery to solder with, they can find your problem, because they have been dealing with these sort of things for 50 years. Another good sign to look for is a place that works on old farm tractors and construction equipment. We have several thousand dollars worth of test equipment in our shop for our over the road trucks, but I use the old techniques on my old 50's toys. If I can't figure it our, I go to an old generator shop about 30 miles from here.

Hmmmm- - - - -I'll bet you've even got an armature growler stashed away somewhere, and you know how to use it, right?

Jerry

It's not stashed away. It's where i can use it. I still like generators because I have 7 GMC's and 3 1956 Fords and not near enough batteries to go around. I Jump them with a 12 volt jumper and they keep running with no battery which an alternator won't do. I put a Motorola internally regulated on my original 56 ford in the early 60's because I was commuting 91 miles one way to college and always had the radio going and the lights and heater as needed plus all of my weekend running around. I carried spare brushes in the glove compartment, but Y blocks didn't put the generator in an handy place when everything was hot. An alternator was like being in heaven in those days. About the only good part about getting old is being able to do simple things the high tech kids of today can't co.

Hi guys

Thanks to all for the discussions since this is my thread, I would like to update. I changed my generator to alternator (CHROME) from Patricks easy wiring and my battery charges and when I remove battery cable truck keeps running. Generator was the culprit, I feel so bad to change from old generator to new alternator but to fix my old generator it was going to cost me $150 and I already spend few dollars on diagnosing and 4 times removed and put into the truck - lot of time wasted and main thing I was told I could not use old generator for Air Conditioning if ever I wanted.

Thanks to all of you for the replies

Ganesh

Don't know about the "chrome" unless you like to see yourself, but an alternator is the way to go. But, if you have a 100% original vehicle, I'd keep it that way.

I fully agree with you on this. Thankfully all they have to do is connect the automated tester to the batter and let it do its thing.

So after the post above, the interior came out of the truck. I found some VERY interesting things. Staying on subject, my initial look under the dash identified some issues. Pulling it all out showed the true nature of the situation. Last time I checked, household wire nuts had no place in automotive electrical. No, I'm not kidding. I have much love for the previous owners. NOT. Anyway, knew it was a project when I got it. Starting tomorrow the new harness goes in along with some other electronic goodies.

The saga continues ...

So after the long and tedious task of dismantling years of band-aids and bailing wire, all ends are terminated, appropriate grounding points added where needed including a double ground to the block and an MSD 6A to handle ignition duties. A roll of the key and she comes to life true to form. Best $175 and 30 hours (of time spent actually running the harness) of my time I think I will ever invest in the old girl. Heh, until the motor or trans goes.. ;-)

Congratulations on a job done well. I just finished my American Auto Wire 22 circuit kit. I will still need to wire the lights when the fenders are attached. Until then their wires are rolled up and on hold.

Thanks. It's amazing the burden that's removed when you know the electrical won't become an under-dash BBQ at any moment. Like you, I have a number of circuits that are term-end spools with no fuse in the block.

I haven't hooked up the battery yet so I"m not certain my wiring is right. I guess I should buy a brisket for the great start-up.

I've run into a couple of things that I did wrong but didn't cause issue. . Best thing I can recommend is a fusable link inline on the wire sourcing power to the fuseblock. I'd add it if your manufacturer didn't include in their design. Last night I did something about as stupid as it comes and the link saved me a major melt-down. 10 minutes of troubleshooting to identify my stupidity, another 30 to correct the issue and replace the BBQ'd link and we're back on the road. Today the woman and I packed a bag, saddled up and drove the 300+ miles from Phoenix to Vegas for turkey-day with family. Old-girl ran without issue averaging 18mpg.

I agree completely, if anyone is as accident prone as I am it would be an excellent idea to stick one of these inline.
http://www.madelectrical.com/catalog/fusible-link.shtml