The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Panels 'N Burbs Check list for buying a 1947/55 Suburban/Panel/CE

Here's another modified version. December 30, 2009

I have helped a few guys in their pursuit in finding a Suburban. This list should help most people who are not as familiar with the vehicles as some of us. It can also be used remotely when a fellow stovebolter volunteers to look at a suburban for another who lives far away. I am looking for some input on building a check list that can eventually be posted in the Tech Tips. The bolters in this forum are probably the most knowledgeable.

I have compiled this as a living document, I am open to and encourage input and corrections. Please let me know what can be added or should be corrected. I am sure I have forgotten something.

This should cover 1/2 ton Suburbans, Panels and Canopy Express vehicles. One ton models will have the same problems with only some of the body patches being unavailable.

BUYING A 1947/55 SUBURBAN/PANEL/CANOPY EXPRESS

Both the GMC and the Chevrolet share many of the same body parts and all of the same problems. The Advance Design Body's were problematic to rust in the same places as the pick up plus areas exclusive to the Panels and Suburban. My real focus is on the Suburban, but I have included some of the issues with the Panel and Canopy Express.

Here are a few of the areas to check when purchasing a Suburban, Canopy Express or Panel: The Panel and Canopy Express have their own quirks and issues, but the following information can be used as a baseline in your search.

Front fenders: This is common to all AD trucks, including the Suburban. Cowl to fender first and second bolt adjacent to the hood. Also the lower cowl to fender area as the fender curves. The lower portion of the fenders can be a problem too. Sometimes in extreme case I have seen rust out around the headlights. No repair panels available to my knowledge. (ALL)

Cowl: This is common to all AD trucks. As mentioned in the fender to cowl area, but also on the lower section of the cowl between the fender and the door. Repair panels are available. (ALL)

Door pillar: This is common to all AD trucks. The lower section just below and including the lower hinge gets rust out. Repair panels are available. Check the door for sagging and misalignment. (ALL)

Door bottoms: This is a common to all AD trucks. Patch panels are available (ALL)

Inner cowl: This is common to all AD trucks. Rust out is common in this area and around the toe board including the emergency brake location. Repair panels are available. (ALL)

Cowl to front fender well: This is another area that is prone to rust out and common to all AD trucks. Repair panels are available. (ALL)

Toeboard: Usual place to find rust out. Repair panels are available. Look under the firewall padding. (ALL)

Floorboard: usual place to find rust out.Repair panels are available. Look under the floor matting. (ALL)

Windshield/cowl: Look for rust or deep pits caused by leaking seal. (ALL)

Cowl vent: Look for unusual rust caused by bad seal. Also look under the dash if you find any evidence of a leaking vent seal. Water collects near the ignition switch and around the steering column and will rust out the lower portion of the dash. (ALL)

Inside visor: This is common to all AD trucks. Check this area for rust caused by leaking window seal. (ALL)

Roof rain gutters : This area is susceptible to seam cracking and leaks, rust out can occur in several areas. (ALL)

Interior roof and headliner bows: This area can get major surface rust and the headliner bows can be come loose or rust. (SUBURBAN)

Seat riser and passenger seat floor: This is usually rusted and the passenger floor is a flat piece of 1/8" steel that hides most of the rust. Make sure you check this area carefully and do an underneath inspection too. (SUBURBAN) Panel and Canopy Express seat riser goes the full width of the cab an is susceptible to rust too.

Running boards: these rust out at the support area. Reproductions are available. (1/2 TON)

Curved area under the rear side windows between the front door and the rear fender (both sides): This area is usually rusted, sometimes the paint hides the rust out. Check this area carefully. Patch panels are available. (SAME PROBLEM FOR SUBURBAN/PANEL AND CE)

Under rear fender flange: This area is another hidden problem. Make sure that you use a flash light and poke around a little. This will show up when you remove the fenders. Limited patch panels are now available (RAY STANLEY) (SAME PROBLEM FOR SUBURBAN/PANEL AND CE)

Rear fenders: Where it attaches to the running board and the rear corner. Also the fender flange to the body rusts out (SAME PROBLEM FOR SUBURBAN/PANEL AND CE)

Body belt line just above the rear fenders: sometimes this can be a problem and it can be hidden under the paint or someone has bondoed over it. Limited patch panels are available (RAY STANLEY). (SAME PROBLEM FOR SUBURBAN/PANEL AND CE)

Rear cab corners: This is a common place for rust out. Limited patch panels are available (RAY STANLEY).(SAME PROBLEM FOR SUBURBAN/PANEL AND CE)

Rear valence: Often missing or damaged. Only available as a fiberglass reproduction. (SAME PROBLEM FOR SUBURBAN/PANEL AND CE)

Body panel just above rear valence: This is sometimes rusted and most always dented. Some patch panels are available but not a complete piece (RAY STANLEY). (SAME PROBLEM FOR SUBURBAN/PANEL AND CE)

Rear body sill: This is the piece just inside the rear doors. Usually dented sometimes rusted out. No patch panels available to my knowledge. (SAME PROBLEM FOR SUBURBAN/PANEL AND CE)

Rear doors (barn): Usually dented, sometimes rusted at the bottoms and hinges. Missing hardware or hardware not working is common problem. No patch panels available. (SAME PROBLEM FOR SUBURBAN/PANEL)

Clam shell tailgate: Usually dented and usually rusted at the hinges and the inside bottom. (SAME PROBLEM FOR SUBURBAN AND CE)

Clam shell lift gate: Usually rusted at the bottom and window area. Hinges are usually sprung or damaged. Sometimes they have been poorly welded in. Look for welds and tears. Check gate supports for proper operation. (SUBURBAN ONLY)

Lower hinge support (Clamshell tailgate): This area usually cracks or is rusted out. climb underneath and check. (SAME PROBLEM FOR SUBURBAN AND CE)

Hinge support header: sometimes rusted out due to poor fitting lift gate (sprung) can also be damaged due to frozen upper lift gate hinges. (SUBURBAN)

Inside side panels under rear side windows: sometimes rust out will occur when the fender wells get rusted out. This will show up in the area adjacent to the fender flange just above the inside fender tunnel. Make sure you check this area carefully (both sides) (SAME PROBLEM FOR SUBURBAN/PANEL AND CE)

Side window openings: This area gets filled with leaves and crud. Check the outside trim pieces as well as the inside trim pieces. Slide the windows and use your flash light for a thorough inspection. (SUBURBANS)

Leaded seams: There are a couple of leaded factory seams that may show stress cracks or just have failed. They are located at the top of the front windshield pillars, cowl to side cowl panels and at the rear roof corners near the rear side windows. (SAME PROBLEM FOR SUBURBAN/PANEL AND CE)


Make sure it has all of the hard to find parts or you know what is missing:

Side window stainless. (Unique to the Suburban) 1947/53 and 1954/55 Two different styles
Side window stops: (Unique to the Suburban) 1947/53 and 1954/55 Two styles of clips. 1947/53 * Reproduction stops available through Jim Carter's
Rear fenders: (Unique to Panels/Canopy Express and Suburban) * Reproductions in fiberglass only!
Rear valence (Unique to the Suburban/Panel/Canopy Express) * Available in fiberglass reproduction only.
Rear door handle and door hardware. (Barn door) (Unique to the Suburban/Panel)
Barn door checks. There are two different styles, one for the Suburban and another for the Panel.
Rear lift gate support (clamshell lift gate) (Unique to the Suburban)
Tailgate cables and retractors. (Clamshell tailgate) (Unique to the Suburban) * Generic reproduction retractors available * Cables can be made to order.
Spare tire carrier and spare tire. Two styles, 1947/50 and 1951/55 (Unique to the Suburban/Panel/Canopy Express)
Front/Jump, Middle and Rear seats. (Unique to the Suburban)
Front bucket seats. Drivers seat is original equipment and the passenger seat is an option (unique to the Panel/Canopy Express)
Cab divider panel (Unique to the Canopy Express)
Bed rails (Unique to the Canopy Express)
Roof bows. (Unique to the Suburban)
Side window garnish trim (inside and out) (Unique to the Suburban)
Clamshell Tail light (it should have a round base and hinged) This light will flip down when the tailgate is in the open position. Look for the rod attached to the lower sill when the gate is in the open position. (Unique to the Suburban/Canopy Express)
Clamshell tailgate. (Unique to the Suburban and a modified version for the canopy express.)
Clamshell lift gate. (Unique to the Suburban)
Tool box covers Panel/Canopy Express have two and the Suburban has one.

Safety checks and tools:

Always take a flashlight, rug/mat, gloves, small hand tools, hand cleaner, rags, masks etc. with you for inspecting the vehicle.
Always check the brakes, including the parking brake.
Always look under the dash for wiring and it's connections.
Always check the electrical components ie: gauges,head lights, tail lights, instrument lights, heater switch etc.
Always check heater an defroster for proper operation and leaks.
Always check steering slop and king pin wear.
Always look at the oil and water.
Always look for evidence of oil leaks where the vehicle is stored, not just where he is showing it.

Caution:

*Always check the registration to the license plate, body tag, engine number. Make sure that the paper work belongs with this vehicle. Take a picture of the seller with the vehicle, make sure you get the license plate in the picture. He does not have to know why you are taking the pictures. Get a copy of his drivers license or another vehicles license if possible.

Other things to check:

Check the doors for sagging and fit. Lift door when in the open position to check hinge wear. Look for wear on the door striker. Make sure that the door lines are close (they were never perfect from the factory)

Check for missing parts, take a manual with you if you are not sure.

Check radiator for rusty water.

Check heater for leaks and proper operation.

Check engine oil, it should be golden. Further inspection of the engine will be needed if oil is black or worse, gray.

Check the tires for wear and alignment. If truck has been sitting, check for age cracks and de-lamination of the tread.

Check the king pins. Rock the tires back and forth. (The best way is when the tires are off the ground)

Check under the vehicle for unusual rust and modifications.

Check for engine smoke and noises.

Check the front and rear seals for leaks after the engine warms up.

Check all of the rubber parts including window seals,motor mounts, hoses and belts.

Check all of the glass, roll the windows up and down, listen for rattles.

Check for bondo or body repairs (a small magnet will work)



What to expect when driving vehicle:


Steering should be tight and no weaving on the road.

Shifting should be easy and no grinding of the gears.

The clutch should start engaging about two inches from the floor board.

The clutch should start disengaging about two inches as the pedal is depressed.

You should not hear noises as the clutch disengages. Listen for throw-out bearing noises.

Brakes should stop in a straight line and not pull left or right.

You should not smell exhaust inside the cab with the windows rolled up.

The horn, lights and gauges should all be working. The amp gauge should show a slight charging (positive)

Check the windshield wipers going up a grade.

The engine should not move hard when accelerating (bad motor mounts.) Broken rear mounts will cause a hopping effect when shifting or accelerating.

Cool George!

Some more rust issues I see frequently are those that cause the windshield to leak, rust just above the rain gutter in the roof, and rusty and loose headliner bows. You probably don't see these as much as far south as you are but they are common in my area.

Some of those Suburban/panel specific patch panels are only available from one craftsman who makes them in limited quantities as it fits in with other things he does. If he stops or retires those pieces could get hard to find!

this is perfect do you have price guides also that would complete a perfect post

George, I think you covered just about everything. If everything you mentioned was good it would be a driver and not a project. Your list and contributions from others is what makes this site such a treasure. Thanks. Weeds

MORE RUST OUT ISSUES ARE BOTTOM OF DASH,RETURNS ON FENDER BOTTOMS,FLOOR SUPPORTS,CORE SUPPORT BOTTOM,DOOR BOTTOM AT HEM AND GENERALLY ANY OVERLAPPING PANELS

Thanks guys! Where's Tim? I figured he would have some info to ad or some corrections.

I hope there is some more feedback, I don't want to publish this without additional input. Thanks again to those that gave me input.....g

Looks very helpful, but here are a few questions and comments I had reading it for the first time, and in preparation for making it a full and proper Tech Tip.

Please understand I have next to no experience with suburbans or panels other than I was allowed to drive Tim's once, but it runs, drives, and looks perfect.

1. Some pictures with arrows would be helpful on locating some of the rust prone areas. I understand some, but some of the fender/cowl ones are hard for me to figure out by the description alone.

2. Does much of this apply to panel trucks too? And would it be beneficial to include them in the title/subject?

3. Running boards, you say there are reproductions available, are they for all versions of panels and suburbans? Even 1 ton panels (if you cover them in this discussion)?

Grigg

If we can get some photos, even if they are a few at a time, similar o what we are doing with the Art Deco truck tech tip ... that would be great.

George, et al ... this looks great.


Peg

Thanks for the input, I made some changes to the list to reflect them......g

I can probably provide some of the pictures.

George what do you want pictures of? I currently have two rusty Suburbans and a rusty 1-ton panel. I have pictures of two other rusty panels that I've since parted out completely.

Steve, I will send you a PM and we can work things out. For now what would be nice is a picture of the inner cowl, fender to cowl and seat riser. I will send you a PM later that we can hammer a few of the details out. Thanks.....g

George, I'm not sure what kind of pic you are looking for on the cowling but if you check my photobucket you can see a couple nice pics of how bad the cowlings can look. Also I will be retrieving my panel body from the blaster in the next day or two so if you want any particular pic let me know.
ONE pic in the photobucket shows an "undershot" where you can see how HIGH the rust came up on the drivers side door and can actually see the repair panel.
Take a look and see what you can use and let me know what you would like for me to take and PM me.

http://s140.photobucket.com/albums/r19/LutherParris/52panel/

Oh, someone ask me who "Luther" is....well, its my middle name. Just did somethink different for Photobucket.

Okay, just to bounce this back. I am starting to put George's Tech Tip together today (not that it'll be FINISHED today ... but hopefully before Aug 1). So, if you've got some more info for him, let him know.

And peeectures!! (Last I heard Chipmunk's computer was DEAD ... so hopefully, he'll be back on soon!)

Peg

I've been a little swamped lately, but will try to get some pictures ready this week... I can provide lots of examples of most the problems!

Great timing, as I am currently evaluating a task force panel truck for purchase. Please let me know if I can help the organization of this topic...

Mark

I'm back Peeggggy! I got a message from George and I think he has what he needs off my photobucket. I did send him an email saying to definitely add the rear door latches to the list of things to check. Mine were pitiful and I didn't know it until I took off the doors and started to stripping them down.

Very nice, George.