The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 216 smokes

I probably know the answer.....I have a 50 3600 pickup with (I think) the original 216 motor (AHCA serial no.) that I awoke from a 27 year nap. When some friends help me haul this treasure home in fall '03 it had '76 license plates. Engine was stuck. I was patient and applied liberal amounts of Marvel Mystery Oil, WD40, etc. in the spark plug holes and waited 2 or 3 weeks before trying to start it. I was doing some other stuff to it; oil change, etc. When I did put a new battery on it it turned over great. After an ignition tune-up, carb cleaning and temporary gas can I got it started and running well. Sweet, actually. Since then I have worked on everything on this truck to get it roadworthy and just in the last 3-4 weeks have got to drive it. And man does it smoke. Am I lame to think that those old rings may yet re-seat and stop smoking? Condition of motor before retirement is unknown. My only other experience with a bad, smoking motor was an Olds 455 about 30 years ago. When I took it apart the oil rings were frozen in their grooves and would not expand against the cylinder wall. A cheap ring job got it running great and no smoke. What do you guys think? Thanks!

IMO i would just rebuild it.. Whats not to say you replace the rings and something else goes wrong? Me i'm in that same boat bringing home a 66 that hasn't run in probably 15 years, so like you i'll lube her up and hope for the best, it's a 327 though so i would probably rebuild it since it's worth it's weight in gold...good luck frank...Terry

Thanks Terry. The truck shows 52000 miles and the speedo cable was connected and the odometer seems to be working now. I have no way to know for sure but I suspect the mileage is accurate. Motor has good oil pressure; about 30 at start-up, drops to 15 after warm up while driving about 30 mph. Drops to 7-8 at warm idle. No knocks or other noxious engine noises, just some tappet clicking. All appropriate for a 216, I think. I guess I've only put about 35 miles on it total tho it has run at idle for a few more hours than that.

Frank50,
my 216 story was about identical to yours. When I took it apart, there were oil rings that were seized in the groove. I had quite a time getting them out. The big surpsise was the lack of cylinder wear after 78,000 miles. I think these low compression motors experienced much less stress on some of the cpmponents.

Since I got the truck all of my engine work has been external. I've had the valve cover off only once. Nothing else. I know that if/when I take off the head there will be no turning back. And I don't want to do that right now. I'm hoping/dreaming that the old thing will heal itself. Could happen. My experience with a 235 several years ago as I posted in the gallery taught me to go all the way once I start. It might run another 50+ years if I do. But I won't need it that long.
Any other ideas? :p

Frank, go ahead and do a compression test, the numbers will tell the complete story. Id run it for a while with heavy wt. oil and see if it helps the smoking. How do the plugs look? My old 216 ran sweet for many years with just a hint of smoke, even had low comp. reading in a couple cyls.

Thanks Jim, Truckernix and Terry for the responses. So far I have done very little diagnostic work since I got it running. Compression check makes sense. I will do that soon. Jim, do you still have those aftermarket duals on your 53? The bed of my 50 3/4-ton was so rusted and rotten that I considered taking it off and building a flatbed. If had done that I was also going to put on duals. But I repaired my bed instead.

It's likely that the valve guides are worn out and the seals are leaking.

Frank,
I am in the same position as you with my '52 3600. Mine was stuck when I got it with 36,000
miles on it. I got it unstuck and running, and
it runs really sweet as well, but smokes and has not gone away. I am hoping there won't be much cylinder wear so I can just do a ring job and replace the valve seals. If it looks like more
work than that, I will probably put in a running 235 that I have.

Ghost,
I have a 58 235 on my engine stand now that needs a total rebuild, cylinders bored, the works. I have considered building that motor and just dropping it in my truck but I really like the idea of an all-original (numbers matching) truck. Of course I know that you can't really have a numbers match because the vin was not stamped on anything but the body. VIN = body serial no. From my 50 Chevy Resto-pack I learned that the engine serial nos. are different for each series and assembly plant. Trans. and rear axles, too. All the numbers point to an original truck. On the otherhand my truck is really rusty and rough and not a "collector" - probably any sane man would have parted it out.
I am hoping if the smoke doesn't stop on its own that a ring and valve job will cure it. I would do that in-chassis. If it needs bored, mains, cam bearings.....I would probably not rebuild it.

Update/bump: I drove the ole girl to a Cruise-In about 35 miles from my house - and back!! without incident. It used 1 quart of oil on the trip there. I put in a quart for the trip home and checked all other fluids. Only trouble on the trip home was a noisy, whining speedo. I stopped along the way and disconnected the cable. Since then I have not started it, checked oil or anything. A friend followed me there in his 56 Ford F100. He said he only saw smoke when I took off after a stop. :p This trip added a few things to my to-do list. I will post some pics soon.

Update
I have driven the truck about 200 miles total and the smoking and oil consumption is getting better all the time. I think it is leaking more oil now than burning. I am really pleased. I think I will continue to drive it as-is for awhile and see what happens. You just got to love them old Chevy's!!

I'm happy it's getting better. If you ever decide to sell it, having the original engine will increase it's value to collectors. Someone just wanting an old truck won't care.

what color is the smoke? Blue (blue-gray), white, or black?

blue

It's been awhile since I have been on here. I drove the Chevy a lot over the summer. Maybe 600 miles. Labor Day I drove it about 28 miles to a car show and back. I put about a pint of oil in it for the trip home. The smoking really is getting better. But, I have not gotten it out of the garage since. Sometimes I get discouraged because I don't have time to play/work with it and I'm not making any progress. I get impatient. Anybody else feel like that sometimes? Sometimes other cars/projects tempt me. Like Model A's and T's. (I have been lurking around the olskoolrodz site for awhile...)

Glad to hear you are still around.

Sounds like you are getting there Frank. I woke a old 216 up after a 35 year nap that was stuck took several weeks and a lot of coleoil. If your rings are stuck you might try running some solvent in the cylinders that breaks up carbon. Most of the time the rings are stuck in old carbon thats sharing the ring groove. I did this on the afore said 216 and cured almost all the smoke and brought the compression up some also. If you do this you will need to change the oil because most of the solvent will end up in the oil pan also make sure all of the solvent is out of the cylinders before trying to restart the motor.

Thanks for the replies. ttodd, Cool Doodlebug!

UPDATE
I did not drive the 50 Chevy much in '07. Maybe 200 miles. I did overhaul the front axle: new king pins and bushings, tie rod ends and repaired drag link/connecting rod. New shocks all around and new rear tires. Drives tight and straight!

This spring I replaced the oil pan gasket, oil filter and oil filter hoses. Just got it back together a few weeks ago. This stopped 95% of my oil leaks. I finally got around to doing a compression check a couple of nights ago:
1 125
2 130
3 132
4 135
5 125
6 120
These were cold, dry checks. Not bad! 216 runs really well, responsive with lots of pep, power and acceleration. But it still uses too much oil - about 1 quart in 50 miles. I do not see any smoke in the mirror. I guess I need someone to follow me and look for it. Sitting I can rev up the motor and get some smoke but its more black than blue. The plugs are pretty carboned up. Any insight?? Thanks.

Frank50,

I think you would see blue smoke if your rig burns 1 quart in 50 miles...that is a horrendous amount. I would bet it is actually leaking more than burning.

Stuart

Beats me. It has almost completely stopped dripping any oil on the garage floor, except a little from rear trans seal, since i replaced the oil pan gasket. I guess I need someone to follow me and look for smoke

What brand, and weight of oil are you running? It's possible to make a big difference in oil consumption at times by simply switching brands and/or viscosity of oil. When the truck was new, it probably ran a straight-weight oil, most likely 30 weight in the summer, and possibly 10 or 20 weight in the winter, depending on the temperature. Variable-viscosity oils, like 10W-30 for instance, flow like a 10 weight when cold, and lubricate like a 30 weight when hot, but they don't increase in thickness. It's a lot easier for water-thin oil to get past piston rings and seals than a thicker oil. Just as an experiment, try running a straight 30 weight detergent oil like Shell Rotella 30HD (diesel engine oil). If that switch reduces or eliminates your oil consumption, you've found your problem. If not, you're only out of pocket the cost of a few quarts of oil!
Jerry

Thanks Hotrod, I will give it a try.

Well Frank, I can sympathize with you. My '50, 216 is doing about the same thing. I did the headwork last year and the compression runs about 130 across the board. Runs real nice and I can't see any smoke out the mirror. However when I accelerate I’ve had people following me tell me they can see some smoke and at night in the streetlights you can see it smoke. It doesn’t show from where I sit though in the daytime.
I'm running through about a quart. every 100 to 200 miles. I've been using RotellaT 15w40 ever since I got the truck in Sep. of '06. What's leaking on the floor is just minimal and couldn't account for that much.
The plugs read nice and light tan. I did have to clean them last month because of buildup after around 3,000 miles. I'm trying to hold off on rebuilding the short block till I do the frame off and cab work, hopefully this winter, of course that’s what I said last winter.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Thanks Denny
The only other experience I had with a motor smoking a lot and using lots of oil was an Oldsmobile 455 back in 70's. When I finally took it apart I found that the oil control rings were frozen/rusted in their grooves and would/could not expand against the cylinders. A cheap ring job fixed it. I have been doing some internet research on oil consumption in old motors, etc and came across an old tractor discussion site: Per one commentator most of the early (00's-20's) auto/truck/tractor manufacturer's did not use an oil control ring at all. Even Model T's. Oil was cheap and nobody knew what smog was.... By the 30's nearly everybody was using a "wiper" ring to control oil consumption. With good compression but still using oil I think it is the oil ring causing my problem...? I keep hoping it may heal itself.
I too am holding off digging any deeper into this 216 until....
I am also running Rotella T, but just since the oil pan gasket and really have not put on enough miles to test it.

Well Jarry, I’m not sure if I agree with ya about that 15w40 being to thin when it’s hot and getting past the rings more than a straight weight. But I’m always willing to listen and experiment a little.
It’s getting durn near impossible to find straight weight motor oil now days. Nobody around here has the Rotella straight weight but I did find two gallons of Diesel Fleet Engine Oil SAE 30w, API Service CF-2, CF at the farm store.
Now not being a chemist or petroleum engineer I’ve no idea what the difference between Diesel Fleet Engine Oil and plain old Pennzoil straight weight motor oil is but I’m a gonna use it for the test.
I’m running multigrade Rotella 15w40 oil right now and using a quart every hundred or so miles. So, I’m gonna start feeding the two gallons of straight 30w into her as she needs it. I figure by the time I dump the last of the two gallons in it will pretty much be all straight weight oil. Then we’ll see if it makes a difference in the oil consumption.
Now mind you this isn’t a fogger like the mosquito truck, it isn’t showing any signs of oil burning in the day light, and if it wasn’t for the strong exhaust smell you would probably never notice anything out of the ordinary.

I would agree with ya all the way on the oil scraper being the problem Frank, this is what I believed all along because of the decent compression on mine also. However we differ when it comes to “healing it self,” that’s is a myth that Paul Harvey has spread around for decades. The reality of it is that the oil rings are most likely all potted into the lands with baked oil residue. The only way your gonna fix that is to pull the pistons and physically clean the lands and put new rings in. I wouldn’t bother going that deep into the engine with out doing a complete overhaul with new pistons, re-bore, check the line bore, and deck, regrind the crank, punch in new cam brgs and cam and upgrade the rods along with fresh top-end work.
If you going to go through the effort you might as well have something that is gonna be reliable and last you the rest of the time you own you truck. In the end I believe your money ahead.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Thanks Stuart, Jerry, Denny for the comments. I read a post on here some months ago about the Shell Rotella-T 15w40 motor oil and chased the link to a Shell site w/ lots of testimonials about the products. I decided then to try that oil once I got my motor back together. So I filled up w/ "Triple Protection" 15w40 after my new oil pan gasket, etc. My odometer/speedometer is disconnected but I estimate I have only driven it about 75 miles and it has "used" 1 1/2 quarts.... I'm sure that is not enough test. With gas 409.9 in my town I can't afford to drive it much.

To burn that much oil, you would create quite the smoke screen. I am guessing that you are leaking a fair amount too. Have you ever put a piece of cardboard on the ground after a trip? It can show you a lot about leaks. I have been working on leaks on my motor for quite a while and it has been quite a journey.

Have not tried cardboard. I may do that. Thanks.

Update: still did not drive the truck as much in 08 as I did in 06. Speedometer/odometer disconnected but I guess only about 250 miles in the last 2 years. (Bought a motorcycle in April 07. I guess that's part of the reason. LOL) Anyway, after posting it for sale I changed my mind and decided to keep it - and put more money into it. I think I will pull the head and pistons and examine the cylinders and rings. If I see stuck oil rings as I suspect I will lightly hone the cylinders, install new rings and put it back together with new gaskets, seals and see how it goes. Suggestions? Thanks

It sounds like you just have a really nice running old worn out motor that needs an overhaul to me. If you replace the rings, you might as well replace the rod bearings, then you might as well replace the mains. If you're going to do that you might as well get the crank reground and a valve job. Heck, might as well bore the cylinders to the next size while your at it.

I would at least drain the engine, and pull the head and the oil pan- Then make a plan of attach there- Sounds like you are definate need of some seals- if not more.
If you are going to get into seals, might as well do your rear main while you are there, the oil pan gasket, and check all the top end stuff.
If you do post some pics- very interested in what you find.

Thanks! As soon as this cold snap we are having passes I'm going to get out in my unheated garage and get to work on it.

Update: over the 08-09 winter I removed the oil pan, cleaned, painted and replaced . After patching with JB Weld I finally got it to stop leaking. I have still not pulled the head to inspect the cylinders, valves, etc. 2009 was a major transition year for me, my career and my family and I didn't get to drive it much after early June. We finally moved to Wisconsin in late Dec but left the truck behind until about two weeks ago. Some of you read my road trip story. 330 miles and 7 quarts of oil... Now that's a lot of oil - but it did/does not smoke much. You would think that losing a quart every 40-50 miles it would smoke like a mosquito fogger, but it doesn't. And it runs good, really. Smooth with good power and performance. No noises, no misses. Never a fouled spark plug...
Opinions? Advice? Thanks.

Sounds like you have the sister to my 216 that I pulled in favor of a 235. It ran, but it wasn't pretty or even fun to be around. Fill it up with oil and check the gas please.

Hank