The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop I want a Dually

My 1/2-ton '72 struggles to pull a loaded trailer up my driveway. Part of the problem is my driveway and part of it is the open rear and part of it is the empty box, but everytime I think through the situation I conclude that logic aside, I want a dually and I'm convinced it will solve my problem.

I also noticed a couple weeks ago when we had snow on the ground that two-wheel-drive dually's were going places my poor little pickup wouldn't touch.

So that's too much context, I'll try to get to my question:

What are the differences between a 3/4- or 1-ton rear with single wheels when compared to one with dual-wheels?

With more rolling mass I expect bigger brakes, but I've also read that they are wider. I'm wondering why they are wider. Is it to make sure the inner set of tires don't hit the inner fender?

I'm playing with the notion of converting my 3/4-ton '47 into a dually, and want to have a little better idea why the modern factory trucks are different...

You probably think I'm nuts, but that's okay!

Steve, we know you are nuts ,, join the rest of us here.
SOme dually rears are wider, some are narrower.
Dually rear ends will have larger diameter as well as longer studs than most 3/4 ton rear ends.
With the right tires, tire pressure and weight in your half ton truk, you should be able to go anywhere you need to go with it.
There are some funky dually kits out there for half-ton trucks,, not sure I trust them yet...

How about a nice limited slip or lockup differential? They are available for your axle, and easy to install. That would get you anyplace.

I've never owned a dually...but a friend used to pull gooseneck trailers hauling cattle. I asked him once why he drove a 1 ton with singles instead of a dually...he told me that when he tried a dually on the slush and snow, the rear wheels could never decide which wheel would ride in the rut created by the front wheel, causing the back end to move back and forth on slippery roads. I would add weight, But secure it. 500 lbs coming through your cab does not do a body good.

Go for it.. but keep your nuts away from Koolcar

Steve - the prob w/ the 72 is more prolly poor tires and lack of weight in the box - the locker rear can help sometimes, but my 72 w/ lots of weight in never had any problems w/ snow, whereas a dually will pack snow between the tires and soon don't get a lick of traction - also still needs weight in the bed - 3/4 and 1T don't come w/ duals, ya gotta adapt something, and ya just end up w/ twice the tires to buy, and bigger, scarcer, more expensive everything else back there - if all else fails get chains!!

Bill

Thanks Rusty! Support without reason! That's what I was looking for.

Maybe I wasn't quite clear, my '72 isn't going to become a dually. Ever.

No, if I convert one, it will be the '47 3/4-ton. And while the logic might be a little shaky, I really do want a dually. I'm not likely to ever drive it far enough to replace the tires, so that doesn't worry me. It just seems that the modern dually pickups are so wide that I can't help but wonder why...

I hope it doesn't need to make sense, because if it does I'm in trouble!

What part has a larger diameter? The hub center?

I converted my 3/4 ton '82 lwb Chevy to duals a couple years ago. I got rid of the factory 14 bolt with 4.10 gearing and placed a totally rebuilt Dana 70 dually rear with 3.73 gearing and positraction. I figured the truck I started with was worthy as it had a "j" code 6.2 diesel and a SM465 with the granny low. This truck will tow your house off it's foundation. The main advantage to the dually from my experience is the added stability and braking control when TOWING. A true dually rear like the Dana weighs in almost as much as the engine and tranny, and along with all that extra rubber makes it difficult for a trailer to push the back end of the truck around on curves or while turning. As I reside in Florida I cant speak much on the issue of snow, but the one ride I took to PA last January driving in several inches of snow with the posi and all that weight holding the rear end on the ground was no problem.

wieght has more to do with it than foot print, my 1 ton slid around just fine in flagstaff. What I would have given for some sand bags I was driving a 1 ton possi dual wheel do*** and it didnt help

A dually is nearly useless in mud unless it is a 4WD. Snow is not quite as bad as long as it is not very deep.

A dually really shines for towing--it really takes the side-to-side shimmy out of towing plus having two extra tires braking surface is helpful.

The stud diameter is larger,,, need bigger nuts

Hey OldSub. You want a dually, does it matter if its a F.O.R.D.? Well, My Grandpa just recently bought a new F.O.R.D. F350 Diesle Power Stroke to pull their new 40+ foot fifth whell, replacing it with their F350 dually 3/4 Ton truck. The dually just wasnt cuttin' it, didnt have enough power to pull that massive fifth wheel. I talked to my Grandpa and he said it has a 460, 7.2 liter in it.

Anyway, if you are interested, my Grandpa is selling it. Also, you live in Seattle, Washington, and I live in Oregon City, Oregon. Hey, your one state up, and not too far away.

Well, just let me know what you think, and if your interested I will get you all the info I can! (Pictures, Year, etc.)

- Shane
[email protected]

The easiest dually kit is sold by JC Whitney, bolts to your original axle. I just took a set off my 53 3/4 ton flatbed, they work great I just didn't need them. This kit has been around for many years, kit lists for around $300.

I had an open axle F250 I bought new in 82 and got stuck all the time. Even on wet launchramps trying to get my boat back out. A common sight on launch ramps is seeing a bunch of guys standing on the back bumper trying to get traction.

So in 87 I bought a new F150 4x4 extended cab, towing package, skid plates, limited slip, the works. I found I never really needed the 4x4. The limited slip would pull me out of anything.

OldSub, maybe you just need more torque? What kind of powerplant do you have now? If you are having problems pulling stuff up hills etc then I don't know if a duallie axle will solve that. A higher gear ratio may address that but then top end speed will be affected.

If you have a coil spring rear on the 72, it's part of the problem. The ride smooth, but the price is a loss of weight transfer to the wheels. Leafs would help some. However, if you want an AD with duals, there's a nice looking one in southern Kansas that has a one ton chassis under it.
[img]http://www.myoldtruck.com/Gallery/data/508/1DSC00064.JPG[/img]

Fred that 1-ton looks perfect. I can't tell if its a dually or not, but that's the general idea.

We don't park the f--- trucks in our yard. Never have, never will, don't care what you drive, but we don't want them here.

The '72 is a 350, but power or torque aren't my problem. The problem is a dirt drive way with a steep grade, and increasing traction is probably the best answer. It does have coil springs so that might be part of its problem.

But the '72 is only my example of the problem I could address with a dually, I just want that 1-ton Fred showed us!

I don't drive Fjords any more either. But I believe Chevy also has a limited slip?

Well, ummm......I....Nope, I was just offering since my Grandpa is selling it. I thought I would help him out, just think, 1 less F.O.R.D. on the property! I should take a pic of all the F.O.R.D.'s on my Uncles property and post it, you would all faint, lol. Anyway, I thought I would offer, and help out my Grandpa. I used to be into F.O.R.D.'s, but arent anymore. I still like Dodge trucks (around the '93 area), but am turning out to be a Chevy person myself. Both my Dad's are Chevy people, my real Dad said he grew up with them, so thats why.

When I was a kid, I always wanted a Dodge 2500 Dually 4x4, with a lift kit, hehe, but now-a days I dont want the dually. Anyway, good luck with your problem, and hope you can solve it!

- Shane
[email protected]

Yeah Tony maybe I should just put a limited-slip in the '72 and forget it, but I really want a dually...

forget the baby dually and get a real truck 2.5 ton or bigger they are cheap and plentyfull as compared to a old half ton pickup

Well okay Jess, to tell the truth what I really want is a COE set up to haul trucks instead of a dually for pulling trailers... But I have limited resources.

Nice pic, Fred T-thanks for sharing. I wonder how they got the late model dually to fit under the oldie's body...did they maybe widen ALL FOUR fenders?! Don't matter if they did, a nice job was done of the conversion.

Regards,
Wannabe

oldsub, if ya want a duelly, then get one. I can't help you out on what one you need to fit your truck. Take a tape to your fender wells and start looking for a set up that will fit.

The coil spring set up on your 72 is not the problem. There has to be enough weight to take advantage of whatever the tire footprint is. With a half ton, when you get enough weight for good traction on snow, you may be over loading the suspension. Then handling suffers.

Any truck/car can suffer from loss of traction. A lightly loaded duelly will suffer on slick surfaces. But a single tire set up can suffer just as bad too. A vehicle (single or duelly) that handles snow well with factory size tires on it can be like a hog on ice with wide tires installed. Deully tracking in some snow conditions might be a problem. I have always found that the duel axle was not loaded heavy enough when that was happening.

Having more tires on the ground is not always an advantage when breaking. Again, if there isn't enough weight to take advantage of the tires footprint, they will skid sooner than a single setup.

The duelly advantage is in safety. If a tire blows, on what should be the axle that is carrying the most weight when loaded, the other tire should help with vehicle handling. Hopefully long enough to slow to a speed that allows sure control. And a duel setup will allow you to move the vehicle out of traffic, Maybe even to continue on to where service is avialable.

Single, duelly, half ton, 3/4 ton, 1 ton, whatever, every set up has it's advantages and disadvantages. Go with what "you" want and make it work for you the best you can. Good luck. Mike

OldSub,
At the risk of repeating someone else... Other than my big trucks, I'm on my second late-model dually (first was a Dodge 4WD with the V10, current one is a 2WD with the Cummins).

Everything else being equal (engine, tranny, etc) about all you gain with a dually is stability and more confidence with the really big loads (mine was primarilly four-horse trailers and now a large deck flat trailer.) They don't gain you much else for the added expenses associated with duallies (brakes, tires, gas being the big three). My 2WD Cummins dually is absolutely useless in snow -- almost lethal (I grew up in Northern New England, too)-- all the weight is up front. Duallys typically don't have the traction single rears do because with a dually, you have the same weight spread out over twice the number of tires resulting in less ground pressure. Thus, reduced traction, not greater. Which is why they suck in the snow, too. Duallys will tend to ride up on top of the snow and act like sleds (bad) rather than cut trough the snow down to the road surface (preferred).

And duallies are wider (factory ones, anyway) -- duh, that's why they have fender extensions . And being wider, they are trickier to drive. Most older duallies you'll see (except for mine ) have busted fender extensions from folks who forget the truck is wider behind them then in front of them. You'll never park close to the front door at them fancy climate-controlled in-door lumber yards in a dually. Or ANYWHERE in the Walmart parking lot.

For a 2WD dually to be usable in the snow, you have to put a bunch of weight in the back. And once you do that, you've probably used up your cargo capacity. So you're paying all that extra gas to drive around in a vehicle you can't haul anything in ('cause you've used the space up loading it down for traction). So then what's the point? This time of year, my dually pickup pretty much stays in the garage. No shows to haul to anyway.

Most people with duallies don't really need them. If you want to upgrade because the ole 1/2-ton doesn't cut it (1/2-tons aren't really trucks, anyway -- just cars with no seating and big, open trunks), you probably ought to think about a 3/4-ton. Any decent 3/4-ton will do 100 percent of what you'll need (and 90 percent of what you want) and at a considerable savings over buying (and feeding) a dually.

Big duallies are manly, cool and all that so just remeber that there's a big difference between wanting a dually and needing one. My next modern truck (if I ever need one) will most likely be a 3/4-ton. And a crew cab? Forget that -- being a native Down East Yankee, I'm antisocial. I couldn't stand having that many people in the truck with me.

Just my 2 cents.

John

John,

Very well said, I have a 2500 Ram and it solves almost all my needs.Duallies are quite cool, but don't see any advantages owning one. Would not trade mine 2500 into a duallie.
Just for the records, I don't know what snow is.