The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Driveline flaring custom made brake lines

I have 1950 3600, I am in the process of custom fitting new brake lines. I purchased all required tools and went right by the instructions for a double flare. It always became lopsided so I am forced to use a single flare. Even that is a far cry from perfect compared to the preflared store bought steel lines.
1. Is flaring really that difficult or is it me?
2. Will a not so perfect single flare even work?
I asked my professional brake shop how they did theirs and they said they don't "to much of a pain compared to just buying preflared". Unfortunately I already devoted lots of $$$ to this custom job.

Need incouragement that a custom brake fitting and flaring will work or honest truth to abandon this tactical mission and start over.

DO NOT USE Single flares in brakes lines! Theres a tech tip on how to do this. It will take several tries to get it right. I think a critical thing is to take a file and bevel the edge of the tube before setting the die over it. Toss a drop or 2 of oil on it and try it again. I use the 20$ tool from the flaps, and it took a few tries to get it right. Keep trying and youll get it.

Jeff

Bending brake and fuel lines is actually one of my favorite things to do on a car or truck. (I know...I'm sick)
First...you MUST use a double flare, 45-degree. You can not do a single flare, period. All automotive fittings are 45-degree double flare. A single flare won't seat.

Second, while I know you've spent a decent amount of money, there is a HUGE difference in the quality of the tools out there. 15 years ago, when I was 17, I ponied up the $$ for a Snap-on tubing cutting and flaring kit. It was $93, and the best money I've spent in the garage to date. This kit is responsible for my good results.

One of the key compnents is a high quality tubing cutter. I had to replace mine because I lost it, and it was around $45. I tried a couple from Sears, NAPA, etc. before biting the bullet. The cutter is the difference between a good job and a pain in the butt.

The flare tools themselves are also high quality, and they'll make a difference as well. Between a poor cutter that doesn't cut square, and a holder that lets the tubing slip as you form the flare, you'll end up with cracked, lopsided or otherwise messed up flares.

The Snap-on kit I have is now up to $120 (not bad inflation for 15 years), and is available on their website. I don't have the link, but it's in a red box, has a silver tubing cutter, and polished holder and flare tool, along with 5 flare dies.

A couple years ago I added a couple dollar-bin small files to the box...one round and pointed, one flat, to deburr the cuts. I never had a problem with it before, but I figured it couldn't hurt.

I've made lines for a '56 Chevy, '54 Buick, '69 Camaro, '57 Chevy, '62 Suburban, a couple of late-model Dakotas, and more, and the only problem I've EVER had making a flare is forgetting to put the nut on before the flare. That'll kill you every time!

Don't get discouraged. Invest in the high-quality tools, and this will become a job you'll actually enjoy. Step-by-step instructions are pasted inside the lid of the Snap-on box...follow them, and you can't go wrong.
-Brad

I agree with Rusted & Brad,
Tools make the difference and I too have forgotten to put the nut on before the flare and you will too (don't get too frustrated).

One thing I can suggest is to (obviously) take your time - learn the process - and practice on some scrape pieces.

Good luck - You can do it man!

HC

Shellology,

As has been mentioned, there was a pretty intense thread on this subject, by Denny Graham if I remember correctly.

These are a few things I have discovered to make the end product perfect.

The tube end must be cut perfectly square ..if it isn't, the flare will follow the wobble. The ridge must be reamed off the ID of the tube. This too must be done carefully to result in a even chamfer for the cone to follow.

As Jeff mentioned, a drop of oil on the cone helps immensely, and don't form the flare in one "mash", but back off and do it in at least two stages.

Experiment with some short pieces..you will find the method that will give you perfect results, and do a search in the Tool Forum (maybe) for a long thread on flaring tools. Good luck.

Stuart

One of the standard tool-handling exercises in my auto mechanics class is making double flares. All my rookies learn that, plus the right way to do a solder joint on electrical wiring before they can move on to more advanced projects. Besides brake lines, any custom-fabbed air conditioning line or steel gasoline line needs a double flare. Steel lines crack if you try to do a single flare, plus they don't seal properly if you happen to get a flare made without a split.
Jerry

The 3/16 tubing can be pretty ornery. I use a cheapy tool but clamp the vise down on the holder. Yes I,ve flared them without the nut on before.

Shellology:

I,like you and the rest of us here had trouble at first. My problem was not putting a death grip on the flaring tool when tightening down on the tube. Don't be afraid of busting knuckles or breaking a sweat on this deal.
As the old adage goes, "when first you don't succeed, try and try again."
BTW if it gets too much and time is short you can get multiple lengths of brake line at your FLAPS.

I'm just getting started on my brake lines and although I am just learning, I have found that if I order my parts through the online store at partsamerica (kragen), then pick them up at the store an hour later, I can get them for 1/2 the price they sell them in the store......not bad, 60 inch piece of 3/16 line for $2.50. Try the online store, well worth it for brake and other parts. Excellent thread for us beginners.

I put this up not to long ago.
http://www.stovebolt.com/bboard/cgi-bin//ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=22;t=006511#000000
I wouldn't have much faith in a so-called "brake professional" that doesn't know how to flare lines. He might not know how to do other brake repairs either!

Thanks everyone, I'm gonna try again before abandoning ship. It would seem that I've made one mistake after the other on this brake line adventure. Sounds like everybody is successfully flaring their on lines and thus I should eventually get if fiqured out. Im going right back out there and trying again. I'll get back with yall on how it goes.
Thanks

In addition to everything else everyone has said I will add one more hint. As has been said, the end must be square. In order to insure this, before I make the flare, I clamp the line up so only a couple or hairs worth are sticking out of the clamp and file the tube flush with the clamp. Then reposition to make the flare. Two things to look out for when you do this. Be sure to get all the filings out of the tube and make sure the clamp does not leave ridges on the part of the tube that will end up being the inner flare. Good luck!

go to your local autoparts store and buy the already flared on both end they are reasonably priced and come in 8, -60 inches then all you have to do is cut one end and flare it. it greatly improves the odds there will be no leaks

One more thing, if you do lube the line during flaring, DO NOT USE OIL!!! Use only clean brake fluid. If you use oil, you risk contaminating the line, and thusly the fluid what you bleed the system.

Okay Bill, I use a drop or 2 of oil when I flare mine. I also blow out the lines with the air compressor when im done and make sure they are wiped off real good. Would a few drops of oil really be that detrimental? And why?

Ive seen some nasty stuff come out of perfectly (maybe not pretty) good working lines and wheel cylinders.

Thanks, Jeff :confused:

When oil, especially petroleum base, come in contact with the rubber in the braking system it causes it to degrade rather quickly. I've seen extremes from just leaking to being swelled up 3 times its size from oil contamitnation. Getting it on the outside is fine, it's getting inside that's the issue, especially since it can be very difficult to remove from inside the lines. I suppose if you flush the line with brake clean, then blow it out, that would be ok. But every manual that I've ver seen on the subject states to only use brake fluid as a lubricant for flaring. Personally, I do mine dry, and have never had a problem with it.

Longbox55's concern is well deserved. Many years ago I had a friend helping me service my car. He checked the brake fluid and refilled the MC using "POWER STEERING" fluid. It wasn't too many days until I needed to replace all my wheel cylinders. What a nightmare!!!

Shellology , you really shouldn't be having so much trouble because making successful double lap flares is not hard. It sounds like your tool is not gripping the tubing very well and the pressure is forcing the tube through the 'jaws'. I had the same problem that you are facing and discovered that my Papco tool had an eccentric cam that could be adjusted to tighten the clamping action. Problem solved. When you get this figured out you will be surprised how easy it is to make perfect flares. Don't kick yourself, you might want to take a closer look at your tool as the culprit.

Regards,
littlebuddie

Thanks Bill, I appreciate the explanation. I can understand the contamination being an issue, but I figured a few drops that was diluted when the fluid enters the system, and was probably removed when bleeding the system really wouldnt be enough to cause damage.

Ive used wd-40 for as long as I can remember for rehoning wheel and master cylinders and havent had any issues yet and its a petroleum based product, so long as the cylinders werent pitted or damaged Ive had no issues. Thanks again for explaining!

Jeff

It's great to know I'm not foolish for doing this. The other day right before I started my "weekend shift" at work I tried again. Thanks to everyones advice and encouragement I think I found one of my mistakes.

I was tightening the screw and the "bubble flare" would start, then roll off center. Not being centered I would stop. This time I keep going hence quote from previous post. "The screw is tightened until the die bottoms out." Even though it started rolling uneven, If I bottom out the die the metal will follow.
Second part was inverting the double flare. After that it look more like a traditional double flare.javascript:void(0)
Smile
It wasn't one I would have used, but it was my first double flare. I also used a little brake fluid for lubrication.
I wished to have had a vise to hold the thing still while tightening and file for proper deburing of edges.

Thanks to every ones help I don't feel so beat anymore. With a little more practice hopefully I will be back in business.

Is there anything I need to know about the file before I purchase any-old-thing.

A fine warding file or flat file works well for me. Consider the country in which the file was made (politically correct statement) and you could end up with a tool that will last a long time and you won't feel bad when you have to finally toss it out.
Glad to hear that you are making forward strides now, good on 'ya for your tenacity.

I noticed no one mentioned sanding the end of the tubing after deburring.
Lay a piece of 240 grit sandpaper on a flat surface, ie work bench, sand the end by making/drawing a figure 8 on the sandpaper with tubing. Keep the end of the tube flat on the sandpaper with lite pressure. This will evenly sand the ends/edges of the tube.