The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Driveline Brake Line Copper Washers

I recently replaced the front brake hoses on my 37 1/2 ton pickup front brakes and have been having a hard time getting the new copper washers to seat and seal. Does anyone have a source for the thin, soft small copper washers used on brakes hoses which connect to the back of the front wheel cylinders?

Any suggestions would be appreciated!

Joe

You should be able to get them at the flaps. Take one of the old ones with you so it can be matched up for diameter. Napa may be your best bet for finding them.

On the bolt side, I reused the old ones and on the wheel cylinder side, I used the new thick ones. I did a number of tighten/backoff sequences to sort of seat them and the leak cleared up.

I have a leak at my wheel cylinder. I used new washers. That's a good tip to tighten and backoff and retighten. I hope it works for me. Thanks for the tip truckernix

If Napa doesn't work for you, try your local motorcycle dealership that has a good parts department. My dealership here has all kinds of them (different sizes). The modern Japanese bike has a lot of copper washers in the brake and cooling systems. Definitely take one with you to match up the ID, but I've gotten many different copper washers from them over the years (I've been racing bikes for 11 years so I'm more familiar with how this dealership works as opposed to Napa).

Just another idea of where you could get them.

Joe, I have seen them on the "Help" isles of the Auto Zones or Advance Auto at times. I know you do not want to do this but a long time ago I filed the sides down smooth with a fine tooth file and it worked for a week or two until I could get some. Just a thought if anyhone ever gets in a "have to" situation. These should really be no problem to find from the responses above. Take care pal.

You can heat the washers up to anneal them, then they will seal again. Brian

Heat them with map gas perhaps? I was thinking of rubbing them on some very fine grit sandpaper. Would this help???

I have read about heating them too. My concern with the large new ones was that they were large enough to rest on surface area outside of the sealing area and therefore they might not seat.

I have fabricated my own copper seals by cutting/flattening some 1/2" copper tubing, then forming the washers with tin snips, a file, a drill bit and a rattail file. Slow, yes, but the copper tubing is dead soft, and makes an excellent gasket.
Jerry

Jim Carter has the bolt and washer if this is what you mean.


http://www.oldchevytrucks.biz/catalog1/00081.htm

Copper crush washers work-harden when you tighten them up. Annealing them is the only way to properly re-use them.

Maybe so... but I reused the ones on the front banjo fitting on my '58 . No leaks!

harbor freight sells a 110 pc $4.99 variety box-o-copper washers, from China no doubt.

Sometimes you get lucky and they have a bit of crush left in them, but I've never had good luck with that.

Guys - I certainly appreciate the feedback! Your sugestions give me several good choices! For the record, I have been to the "Help" isle at my LFAPS. Thanks you, Alvin! I do have some old used washers that I'm going to look at, too. I also have one of those Copper Washer selection boxes from Harbor Freight. Pretty rough! And I have some round copper pipe that I might see if I can make into Hot Rod Lincoln copper washers. A new piece of that stuff is very soft.

Again, thanks for the feedback. I feel certain that I can come up with a good solution!

Joe

Or you could make your own Joe. I went to the local auto parts store and his box of washers was dust covered and dern near empty. He had one washer left the size I needed, didn’t know when he would get any more in and shot me a price of $2.85 each. “$2.85 FOR ONE COPPER WASHER” was my reply and I asked if I got a kiss when I was bent over. Needless to say I told him to shove it, I’d make my own for that kind of money.
Several more Car Care, Napa and Auto Zone stores later I decided to back up my threat to make my own.
I had some .030” annealed dead soft pure copper flashing, that I had bought to practice with when I was learning about metal spinning and that seemed just perfect for washers.
I clamped a sheet between two pieces of hard wood to eliminate a burr and drilled a few dozen 7/16” holes through the sandwich. Next I cut all the hole blanks out with my snips to make 7/8” squares with a hole in the middle. Then I stacked them on a simple mandrel made from a bolt and some spacers that I chucked in the lathe, turned them to .712” which is what the bolt and old one dictated and presto, $102.60 worth of washers for the stock drawer. Now I’ll never be at the mercy of the auto parts guy again!
Check out the pics on WebShots;
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2459767600098611668bdSmCY
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2776678890098611668EYEmqI
The best bet that I have found so far is like the old Geezer noted, Jimmy Carter, $2.75 for new bolt and two washers.
And I would also agree with our Electrical Engineer about reusing them. Heating copper to color and holding it there for a few seconds will anneal the washers but you still have the concentric circles that are impressed in the surface on the older components. I doubt if you could align the grooves again and chances are you are going to cross them in a few places and this presents a path for leakage.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL
Now brass sleeving the wheel cylinders task was a little more involved than the washers! But that’s another story.

Good show, Denny! I'm always making up bits & pieces I could probably buy, just to see if I can do it. A lot of the parts I fabricate for the custom rifles I build are one-off designs that started out as a ragged chunk of steel, and ended up as a trigger guard, magazine floorplate release, or some other bit of metal sculpture.

I was busy making a bushing driver on the lathe one day when one of my students walked by. After he watched me for a while he said, "I'll bet if they gave you the right tools, you could build an ice cube in Hell!"

Thanks, kid, I needed that!
Jerry

You guys always amaze me. Just when I was doing brake work I come accross this. I was leaking so I found a Napa Auto Parts store. He had them but they were thinner. I had already heated the old ones and ran them accross a piece of sandpaper to flatten them. It was tough to get the one fitting to stop leaking. After repeated tries and tightening with a breaker bar it finally stopped leaking. Why is it so hard to seal those buggers?

Well you answered your own question Skip! when you sanded the surface you probably made a wedge out of it. Plus the scratches from the sandpaper are a path for leakage. Metal seals have to be smooth and parallel. They don't have to be thick, just uniform in thickness. The standard thickness is usually a 1/32". You shouldn't have to tourque these down to get a seal.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

After all this commotion I walked by the "help" isle at Advanced Auto today and they had three or four different sizes. Two, or three, to a pack for $2.88.......minus my 20% discount and I get a pack for about $2.33 and spend my time working on my bolt. After reading all this I think I'll go buy a couple boxes of each in case a future bolter needing one.

Please do Chip, buy a case, cuz I spent several days looking in every auto parts store in a 30 mile radius of the Chicago suburb that I live in. That's why I ended up making a bunch for myself. If you find them maybe you could be a distributor, all it would cost ya to ship a half dozen out to the guys would be a postage stamp. Order from on of the vendors and right off the bat ya got six or eight bucks for S&H.
Ya know, it's finding the little crap like these washers, or staples or the right screws that take up much of my time during my restoration. I've been trying to get the 1/4" brake line tee that clips the flex hose to the rear axle housing for three weeks now. Ordered it from two vendors and got back ordered on me. This time I have been waiting for a week for Jim Carter to deliver my order so ya see, one stinking brass fitting holds up the task for almost a month. Ya suppose R&B has those on the "HELP!" rack down there in SC???
If I could figure out how to produce the female double flare I would make those for myself also, especially at twenty five bucks a crack!
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL
D

Years in the shop, 25.
Leaks in new brake lines, 0.
Leaks in used brake parts, too many.
Are your cylinders in good condition where the washer seats?

What do you call the fitting that has a big hole in it, that attaches with the big, hollow bolt and allows the fitting to be positioned at any 360 degree axis and attaches to the brake line? Is that what Phil referred to as a banjo fitting?

The new ones I bought at Napa leaked worse than the original ones. They appeared to be thinner than the originals. It should be noted that the surfaces on the old cylinder and the (banjo?)fitting looked good, flat and squeaky clean. They are machined flat but with concentric grooves in the sealing area. After fiddling for some time, it was a combination of one old and one new that finally stopped the leak but with much torquing. I hope I never need to take this thing apart again.