The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk Buying an engine

What should I look for when buying a used engine? I know a little about engines but not enough to feel like I could make a fair buy. At some point, I'd like a full pressure 235 to swap out my 216.

What are the essential questions I should ask a seller? What should I look for and check on an engine? Should I bring a tool box or would that offend?

Give me your best techniques in searching for finding that perfect engine!

First look for obvious problems, like a push rod through the side of the block. I'd make sure it could be turned by hand. Remove the valve cover and look for anything out of place in the valve train. You might catch a dropped valve, etc. which could mean big problems. Lots of oil down the side or wherever might not be a big deal, but if it used a lot of oil there's a chance that the P.O. might not have kept up on the consumption and ran it dry. Pull the dipstick and see what the oil looks like.

By all means, bring a tool box. Don't worry about offending the seller. It's your money so you need to make sure you're making the most informed decision.

No matter what questions you ask, you might not get an honest answer. Doesn't mean you shouldn't ask anyway. Ask him about oil consumption. Ask if it's ever been rebuilt, when the head was last redone, if there have been any problems with it. He may give you straight answers.

Best of luck to you. I'm sure some of the other guys here will chime in and offer some other really good advice, too.

Time and seller permitting take both clyinder heads off and check for piston damage. I bought a 383, "rebuilt 2000 mi ago", after taking one clyinder head off and checking the bores. No problems here the other side must be the same. Wrong. Detonation killed 2 pistons in the other bank and severely damaged the cyl walls. Lesson learned.

If you can, ALWAYS hear the truck run. Thats gotta be one of the best things you can do. While running, take a long dowel to different parts of the engine, with you ear on the end and you can hear things you couldnt normally hear, slight ticks and knocks.

Also check the oil. I always pull the dipstick, look at the oil level, look at the oil itself looking for reflective bits of metal shavings, rub the oil between your fingers cause you can often feel things gritty your eyes may not see, and smell the oil to make sure its not gassy or burnt smelling.

Jeff

I will not buy a used engine unless I can hear it run.Nor will I sell one that the buyer cannot hear it run.

most good truck salvage yards have motors, &/or hotlines to other yards who can tell you who has what. sometimes they take the compression, oil and vacuum tests B4 they pull the motor, if it was say a rear end /side wreck. they usually have to drain all fluids after that cause of insurance reasons. that's a start. if possible try and get the mileage of the engine. go look at the actual vehicle the motor came from.
also look at this sites for sale and inliners site classified's,
http://www.inliners.org/

Ps, don't pass up a 230, 250 or 261 motor either.

I would'nt take a tool box. I have people come in my gun shop and start taking the guns apart.That will get me irate quicker than anything. I gaurantee what I sell and I dont apreciate having my merchandise taken apart and sometimes damaged just so some clown can act like he knows what he is doing.

Workmaster,

Ignore all of the previous post and do what I did. While looking for a 235 replacement for my 216 I followed some of the advice from Patrick's; about the only thing I got right was the year.

My search led me to a '57 with "about" 57k miles on it before it was pulled, according to the ad. After some back and forth emails the ex-girlfriend told me she wanted to get the dang thing out from under the kids swing (which was hanging from the old oak tree in the front yard). She told me that she was sure that it was a good engine because her ex put some duct tape on those inner and out take things; and to add further evidence of its great condition said that the kids were always tracking in oil after playing on the swing.

Well heck, what a great deal this seemed like especially since the engine was in CT. and me in FL. I suppose it was the vision of the engine formally hanging from the oak tree that pursuaded me to "win" this engine.

I asked Ruth Ann if she minded hanging on to this jewel for awhile as it might take me some time to come up there and claim my price. She said it was serving as a great support for the kids skateboard ramp and didn't really mind the delay as she couldn't afford new carpet anyway.

Well, after a few months I talked a buddy of mine who only lived about a 150 miles from the dream engine's location to go pick it up for me (he owed me a giant favor from about 20 years ago.) He did and about the only thing he said several weeks later was that it was quite a chore getting the thing back and into his barn. Come early December of 2005 I finally made the drive up to Danbury to haul the "swap made in Heaven" back to Florida. When I arrived the area was undergoing a severe snow and ice storm, but as my friends farm was only about 1/2 mile down a steep icy road I was feeling pretty good, especially since the 18' trailer behind my truck helped me down the incline.

After a few bot'uls of good wine to warm us up me and Larry troumped through the deepening snow and driving ice to check out the swap. There she was in the back of his back of his broken down, bald tired, 50 something Chevy truck, behind a 3 foot snow drift. Hmm, Ruth Ann didn't say anything about the whole dang Powerdrive transmission being included in the bargan. "Hey Larry, how are we going to get this thing into my trailer, especially since you backed the truck into the barn last fall?" She was running when I parked her, but I have a feeling that the battree is dead now -- how about we go have another bot'ul and figure things out.....

More later on the 216 to 235 swap made in heaven.

Don

For non running engines:

You can usually tell by pulling the valve cover and water pump or thermostat how badly a block has been abused- If there was no oil to the top end the rocker arms will be pretty worn out and gummed up. You can also look for signs of bad valve guides and seals. Pull out the spark plugs and make sure they are all the same light tan color- if you see white ash or a bunch of oil sludge on one or two plugs there is a problem in that cylinder.

Pull the distributor cap off and give the rotor a twist to make sure it springs back (checks the advance weights) and check the breaker cam for wear. This should give you a good idea how many miles the engine REALLY has on it.

I wouldn't bother to pull the head on an engine you might buy- most sellers will take offense to that. Just pulling the valve cover and replacing it doesn't require a new gasket set.

Expect to replace a few gaskets, the fuel and water pump, and maybe the valve stem seals on an engine that has been sitting up for a while. They harden up when not used and leak once the engine is put back into service.

Bullet - I'd agree with you if this was a gun we're talking about. It's an engine and I think anyone with common sense would take the time to do this right. With a gun, it's a lot easier to see what's wrong, or at least tear it apart at home and bring it back the same day, with your guarantee. You sound like the kind of guy I'd like to buy a gun from. Honesty is big to me. But Workmaster is buying this thing from a private party and I would assume it to be a "buyer beware" situation. If I were the seller, I'd have no problem with someone bringing tools to check it out as long as it was put back together when they were done. Also, I'm such an honest guy that even if someone bought it and found a problem I didn't know about, I'd give them a refund. Most people aren't like that, though. So, with that said, Workmaster, bring your tools!

Thanks for the advice. This gives me a better idea of what to look for and the time it may take me to make an appropriate decision if the engine is right for me. Checking for evidence of oil everywhere and popping the valve cover will be my first step. How do you fire up an engine resting on blocks? I'd love to see if it runs first or do I have to be sastisfied it turns freely with little effort?

Down2sea, Can't wait to hear the rest of your story. Keep us posted!

4onthefloor, what can I expect to find with the water pump off? What's normal looking and what is not?

Currently the gentleman has two 235's out of ?. The one I inquired about looks super clean from the pictures and he's only asking $125. 235 Engine After I contacted him, he said he had another but had done some work on it (valve guides for unleaded fuel) and wanted a more for his time and expense. I'm currently waiting for some more information from him before I take a trip there. Any guesses on what year or make it came from?

If I was selling an engine, no way in hell i'd let just anybody with a toolbox come 'inspect' it's innards. No way in hell.

The gods honest truth is, when you buy a used engine, you just don't know what you're getting. Even if the engine comes with a 'guarantee', that is no guarantee it isn't going to be a piece of crap once you get it installed.. and such guarantees rarely cover or compensate you for the time spent putting the engine in, and taking it back out.

Like the local junkyard wanting to sell me a tranny for $800, with a 30 day 'guarantee'. That just meant if the tranny puked 30 days after I bought it, the guy would give me my money back.. but not the time, money, or effort it takes to pull the old tranny out, put theirs in, then take theirs back out.

My advice is if you're looking for a good engine, then buy one cheap and either pay someone reputable to rebuild it, or rebuild it yourself.

As far as buying a used engine, never buy an engine you can't hear run first.. unless it's REAL cheap.. and then, only buy it if it turns free with the plugs out.. turns with some resistance with the plugs in, and you do all the normal check things, like checking the quality & condition of the oil.. coolant.. look under the valve cover, that sort of thing.

I dunno, but for $125 I would say buy it if nothing is hanging out of the side & it turns over. The only true way to tell if an engine is good is to run it down the road. The last used engine I bought was 350 in a running driving truck & the guy even let me run a comp check on it. He said I was wasting my time,& I was-it had 150 psi all across. Brian

Swap made in heaven continued.....

After another bot'el of fine wine Larry decided that the tractor was just the thing to get the truck and engine out of the barn. Only thing was is that the battery in the tractor was dead too. We eventually got the tractor going, the truck out, and the engine squeezed into my trailer (I'm recalling now several year later that it wasn't that simple and will return to tell the real story.)

We said our good-bys in the escalating ice storm and I tried to head up the icy hill with my truck and trailer. That wasn't going to happen so Larry ended up towing us up with the tractor. Oh sunny Florida where are yea?

After getting the engine home I hung it in my shop for about 15 months or so, without so much as giving it a glance. After much thought and pricing of parts I realized that I wasn't going to overhaul it myself so I trucked it over to Orlando to National Cylinder Head. At first they just shook their heads and said no, we don't want to job. I finally talked them into "remanufacturing" it for me. As it wouldn't turn, getting the powerglide off was going to be a problem. I told them not to worry if they need to use a sledge hammer as I wasn't going to use the tranny anyway.

They then reminded me that the "normal" long block they get in didn't include the tranny, oil pan, water pump, hoses, etc. and that it was going to cost abit extree to remove all of that junk. I said "that ain't a water pump, it's just a blob of petrified clay, anti-freeze, and carpet from Ruth Ann's double wide, where the skate boards were bouncing off the end prior to hitting the fan."

In the end the remanufacturing cost me $2006. I like to forget what I paid RuthAnn for the dang thing in the first place and haven't made an effort to go back in my records to find out.

I would be very reluctant to buy another engine, site unseen on e-bay, or anywhere else for that matter. Take the advice of the other guys - hear the engine run first, unless you want some good material to write a missive about here on the 'bolt.

You can see the engine on my '41 WIP album.

The best thing to do when buying a engine is a compression test.

It is not intrusive to the engine and a owner with nothing to hide will normally consent to this test and if he won't then I walk away.

A compression test is not always possible so I would try to buy as a "pig in a poke" not knowing the condition etc., unless the owner offers a warranty that I am not going to find anything major when I do get it running.

Most good wrecking yards offer a "return for exchange" policy.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

Hobert

When I purchased what I thought was a 216 in 1993 from a junkyard in lovely Gila Bend, Arizona, I looked over a field full of 216's. I didn't know a thing at the time other than I needed an engine that would fit in my truck.

The gentleman showing me the engines pointed out the years of each of them. I didn't know if he really knew or not. The engine that caught my eye was one sitting in the back of a 1960's van that was full of parts and various engines. I was told that it came out of a 48 COE.

I asked if I could hear it run and was told that it would take a week to get it out and set up. Upon returning the next Saturday, they had it up on blocks with a gravity feed can of gas into the original updraft carburator.

One pop of the starter and this engine fired up with a woosh of blue smoke and settled into the quiet rythm that we all know from our stovebolts.

I've been running it without problems up until the end of last year where I let it sit too long. The whole point is, hearing it run was what made the sale for me. Just hearing it run told me as much as I could have known as a 24 year old about it.

As an aside, I ran the number off the block using this site and found out that it is really a 235 low pressure. However, the seller was correct, it is a '48 engine and probably did come out a COE. The head was a '53. Only funny part being that the head that came off my previous engine that's been in the bed for 13 years turns out to be a '48.

Anyway, I agree with everyone who says hear it run. Don't know about taking it apart while trying to buy. I would think it might be best to ask a potential seller if they had a problem with it first, but that's me.

Good luck!

I've bought or swapped for a lot of motors over the years, and my approach is usually to assume its junk and pay accordingly.

The one time I bought a motor planning to just drop it in and go I eventually discovered someone had tried to remove a main cap with a chisel. The seller returned my money, but could not return the work I'd done installing it.

I have lots of old motors most of which I could not start without lots of work, if at all, and generally if I sell one its for rebuild, not as a runner.

A better question might be how do you decide if that motor sitting in the corner of the shop can be installed and run as is, or if it first needs to be rebuilt?