The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk shifty business

ok folks-
its been while, i know. i haven't posted since abt. may, bec i haven't had much to do with my truck since then. school kept me busy, and my truck was sitting at the mechanics alot of that time. but now that school's out, i have finally made a very little forward progress on it. heres an update, future plans for this summer, and a plea for help/advice!

since purchasing my 1963 1/2ton shortbed stepside (later 250 w/ a 3 on the tree), i have had alot of break work done. i have had a mechanic look over the engine and hook up the choke (the carb was wired open w/out a choke; real fun to start!) a new column fixed some taillight issues and cured the impossible shifting of the 3-on-the-tree. this past weekend, i spent most of saturday and sunday trying to regain reverse and first gear(!) but with the help of some good 'ol guys at o'rileys (he was even a F*rd man, to boot!) some new bushings, and a E-clip to temporarily hold the shifting pin in the shifter arm hole, its running and driving pretty durn well (for now.)

i have talked to the man who is going to do the paint and body on my '63 (he actually did some work on my daily driver car.) now all i have to do is order all my replacememnt parts, dissasemble the truck, and take it to him. (well, getting the truck home is in there somewhere. my mom says i have to have the parking brake fixed and the speedometer working b4 i can drive it home from my granparent's unoccoupied house.)

now comes my plea for help. i need comments and advice on what to do with my tranny. after spending 2 days of having the 3 speed give me hell, and knowing its not even completetly fixed, it only furthers my want for a better transmition. ive considered the whole s-10 5 speed with an adapter plate, but that gets deep in the 'ol pocketbook (which is fairly limited.) i've also thought about trying to get one of those gear vendor's over/underdrive/gear splitter units, but then i still have to shift on the dang column ( and i haven't priced one of their units yet, but im gonna guess they're not cheap.)
Just the other day, while talking to my paint guy, he said something that made me realize, what about a 4 speed?! they're alot of options, from the granny 4's that were in pickups, to the close-ratio 4's that were in corvettes (i would be somewhere in the middle.) and they can't be too expensive (like the 5 speeds) and i should be able to find an adapter plate easier.

So... any help on this topic, guys? remember, the budget is limited, but it really would be nice to get a better overall speed and lower RPM level. thanks alot!

My first question would be:

What year truck do you have?

Are you asking for tranny options for the '63 mentioned in your post?

I don't think the t-5 option is as expensive as you think. I got mine from a junk yard for $100. If you are talking about a '63, then you already have an open drive line so all you may need to do is shorten the drive shaft.

You will have to deal with the shifter, which means cutting a hole in your floor pan, but that shouldn't be too tough.

Another option for you would be an automatic transmission, if your truck is a '63. How about a nice TH400? Same thing as the t-5, get one cheap, shorten the drive shaft and figure out the linkage. In the case of the automatic you can either get a floor shifter, and there are plenty of different aftermarket ones, or you can get a new steering column with the shifter on it.

You can 'edit' your original post if you want to change the title or the contents by clicking on the 'white square with a pencil' at the top of your post.

You can also add you year and model of truck as a signature line.

Hey, Whoopie, I have a '59 granny 4-speed sitting down the hill that worked fine when I took it out to install a 700R4. Come and get it for $100 (NW Arkansas). If you want to cruise at low RPM, then you don't want a 4-speed granny unless you go to a 3.08 rear axle. My 700R4 has a 30% overdrive and thus cruises well with a 3.90 axle.

Even a new 5 speed custom built to your specs (check out last months classic truck magazine) would be cheaper ($2500) than the gear vendors unit (3k+). Aren't there older car 3 speeds with O.D. available from the mid 50s? The 4 speed with granny will just give you 1 more lower gear, but no higher gears.

I was reading recently about someone using a saginaw four speed and installing the overdrive rear section off a Saginaw 3 speed/overdrive on it. Looks to be a bolt together install. Gives you a car four speed with a pretty healthy overdrive ratio. (a choice of 10 possible gear combinations!)HMMmmm!
I'd go with the T-5 conversion though. It isn't that spendy,and with all these guys to coach you,it'll be an easy install,and you'll really like the results.They shift so much smoother!!
Speed

Alex,

You don't have to guess on the rpm's you'll get with any setup. Do the calculations before you buy. As to the 4-spd granny, mine seems to give me pretty acceptable rpms at cruise. Lastly, you should say outright what your budget is. One man's cheap is another man's life savings. And yes, you should change the title of your post.

Rance

PS: And welcome back.

nm51- thanks for all the insightful info. title of thread is fixed, as well as my signature. yea, a t5 would be really nice. i've read a few differnt articles saying you have to get this one, becareful not to get that one, ect. it's a little intimidating. what did your t5 go behind? any extra info on that swap would be greatly appriciated.

bigmacaddy- as i said, i didn't know how much those units are. $3k?? yipes!!! forget that idea then. last months classic trucks was what origionaly prompted me to start looking into possibilities. i didn't think of going back in time and getting an older 3-speed w/ overdrive. good idea....

speed- thanks for the encouragement. you're right, the folks here are amazing; more info and help than i could ever get out of a shop w/out paying for the advice:)

rance- doing rpm calculations requires tach, right? thats sometihng i dont have....
i'm on the cheep is life savings end of the spectrum. my 16 year old, teenager budget is, well, non-existand, as with alot of this truck. if i absolutely have to have money, i do my best to come up with something. i thought previously that i could do a swap for like under $500 (and anything even cheeper would be REALLY nice), but when i started seeing the prices of t5's, and adapters and all, i laughed myself out of the idea.
thanks once again, all.

63,

Doing the RPM calculations should only require tire size, the known gear ratio or a couple of other variables will tell you what your final product RPM would be. There is a link to a website on here somewhere. That site will help you figure out the calcs. I will post it if I find it.

Since you have an open drive line you could drop in a different rear end as well to get your cruising speed up. I don't know about 60's vintage rear ends, but wonder if a 78-90 caprice would be the right width? With a 4 speed, your rpms should drop.

Also, a tranny for your truck should be easy to find. I think $50 to $100 and you should have a good manual. I bought a whole S-10 with a T-5 for $100. The tranny now resides on the garage floor and the S-10 went to truck heaven.

What is wrong with your 3 speed by the way? If it is like a 66 my bro used to own, the shifter linkage is the problem and not the tranny? It might be an easy fix and then you could swap rear ends to get the RPMs down...just a thougth.

Here, Try This. for RPM calculations.
Good luck.

The T-5 in my truck came from an 85 S-10.

You've already noticed that there are lots of threads on the t-5 conversion for a AD truck. It should be even easier with your truck, since you don't have to worry about changing the rear axel.

46 in progress makes a very good point- IF ther is nothing wrong with your existing 3-sp (and I think there is) what you need to do is fix your 'final gear ratio' Which is the transmission gear ratio times the rear differential ratio. In your case it should be easy. Either you'll just have to swap the pumpkin in your rear diff for one with better gearing, or you'll have to buy/find a ring/pinion set with better gearing, depending on which rear end you have. That would probably be cheaper and faster than doing any tranny swap.

If your tranny is beyond the point of repair (or past the point where you are willing to work on it), putting in a t-5 would be a cinch.

Call a few junk yards in your area that'll let you pull your own parts and then go there and scout them. Look for 4x2 Blazers, S-10s and Astro-vans. Find the one with the lowest milage and a 5-speed, and pull it. They are easy to get out. Just a cross memeber, drive shaft, four bolts and the back up light plug. If you've got several to choose from, my advice is to look for telltale marks of a rebuild- like for example new permatex between the tailshaft and main box, or the cover and the box. Be sure and grab everything you can get your hands on, especially the the back up light pigtail, clutch disc, shifter, and the yoke off the S-10 drive shaft. You'll need the yoke to get your driveshaft to work with the t-5.

After that it should be a cinch to install it. It should bolt right up to your bellhousing. All you'd have to do after that is change the fluid, find a clutch disc the same diameter as your pressure plate/flywheel, shorten your drive shaft, and cut a hole in the floor board for the shifter.

I'm guessing you'd pay $100 for the tranny, $50 for the clutch disc, $10 for fluid and $50 for the drive shaft work.

I think in '63 you could get a truck with an automatic, so that is still another option for you, and shouldn't be hard to mount to your engine- Same thing as a t-5, find the tranny you want and grab the flex plate, torque converter, bellhousing, backup light pigtail and yoke. then all you'll need to do is buy yourself a shifter!

PS-

I like your new title!

everyone- once again, i have done a complete 360 in my ideas/plans after talking to yall. if i'm looking at something under $300 for a 5 speed and all that i need to go with it and fairly simple mounting/installing, i may just try that route. i know also know how to calculate rpms (thanks 46 in progress.) i have considered a later model readend, with better gearing and a stonger rearend ( i have a 10 bolt with really bad gearing)

if i do swap transmitions, i will go to another manual(hopefully that 5 speed). i love being able to shift my own vehicle, and its still a truck:) tranny is first on the list of wants! i appriciate the info on what to look for and what to get. it will help ALOT if i decide to go that route.

nothing is wrong with the 3-speed in the truck, its just the shifting linkage thats giving me hell. the 1-2 shift can be real hard; i need to monkey with the shifter arm length somemore. and i'm in 3rd gear at like 22 mph, with not much more speed above that. i just want to be able to go a little faster, find something that will shift acceptably well, and not be running such high rpm's. that 5 sounds better by the minute....

63whoopie,

I haven't followed the whole thread, but the 1st/reverse shift problem is a classic. New bushings on the shift linkage and a gate adjustment of the "H" column box can do wonders.

To get real excited, dump the column setup and do a Hurst, or similar conversion kit...cheap and smooth shifting. Save your scrilla for new rear end gears.

Stuart

atomarc- its a 1-2 shift that gives me problems. its the shift linkage that i can't seem to get right; everyonce and awhile, aat a stop light, i either couldn't get it into 1st, or i couldn't get from 1st to 2nd. very frusterating. and while at oreily's, the guy showed me a Mr. Gasket 3-speed floor shifter conversion kit. it was $45, and it looked very god, but he said people still have problems with the 1/2 shift. so i didn't think abt it anymore.
also, does anyone know what type of newer rear end will fit in my truck?

63whoopie,

I can't help on a new rear end, but will say I think the Mr. Gasket shifter sounds like a cool deal.

The price is reasonable, and when properly adjusted, your shifting woes would be over.

There is a specific procedure to line the linkage up for proper operation...it isn't real hard to do. It would apply to your column setup as well as to any conversion kit you put in.

I will bet Mr. Gasket has a great set of instructions with the kit. I wonder if there is a Mrs. Gasket

Stuart.

atomarc- what exactly is the propper procedure for adusting the linkage? and the floorshift is sounding very appealing, but the t5 also sounds good.....

63whoopie,

I was afraid you would ask that question so I found an old post on the subject and copied it.

Read it and see if it is clear enough for you to follow. I wrote it last year, so if it is confusing, I won't be suprised.

I don't know if this is the official procedure, but this is how I would do it. I would first remove the linkage from the shift arms on the transmission and make sure they "snapped" into each position..you want to make sure the detent is holding them firmly where they belong in each gear.

You want the shift arms on the tranny in neutral, you will adjust everything TOO THEM.

The shifter box on the column has two arms, one is 1st and reverse, the other 2nd and hi. The arms must be aligned to the "neutral gate". This is the motion of the cab shifter up and down..through the gate!

You attach a shifter rod from the box to the shift arm on the tranny, then attach the other arm in the same fashion. You can adjust the shifter rod that is the easiest to access so that when you sit in the cab and move the shifter up and down, you don't feel any clicks, or hitches in its git-along..smooth! This means the gate is adjusted perfectly. You need only adjust ONE arm. You are matching it to the other arm.

The shifter box and shifter in the cab are DUMB! They rely on the detents in the tranny side cover to index. Other issues that might be affecting your truck would be worn out bushings on the shift box. This would give you slop that might cause problems. I am not sure on this item, but a sagging cab might also induce problems.

If the shifter is "falling" out of gear, these procedures might help...If the transmission is "popping" out, being forced out, you have other mechanical issues...not necessarily adjustment. Good luck and keep us posted.

Stuart

63whoopie,

A couple of notes to add to Atomarcs'

I looked in the factory manual and there is an adjustment to take some of the slop out of shifting. There are a couple of screws in the outer housing (mast jacket), just before you get to the levers. These screws are in slots. Loosen screws and rotate till you get .020-.025 clearance between the bottom lever and the ring below it.

The Mr. Gasket 4 spd shifter I have, has got holes to align the shifter in neutral. There are 2 holes in each side of the shifter body and a hole in each lever. Insert a 1/4 inch rod thru the holes and it is in neutral. Put the shift forks in neutral and adjust ends of rods for a slip fit.

Larry

63whoopie,
Just some food for thought...

I too have a '63 C-10 (LWB Fleet not short step) and I, like you, wanted to get away from the high rpms. I swapped a bone yard T-5 into my truck behind a 230. My original tranny was a 4 speed so I didn't have to worry about changing from the column shift, but that isn't a real big deal anyway. The bolt pattern on the T-5 and your current tranny should be the same so you can use your current bell housing and clutch set up (no adapter plate needed). There will likely be a difference in length in the two which will require that you drive shaft be cut down, but you can usually find someone to do that for ~ $100. If you just call a bone yard and ask for a T-5 you'll likely get a response somewhere in the $400 - $500 range...tell them BS that you can get one for $100 on eBay...that made my local bone yard guy change his tune ASAP. I paid $150 for the T-5 from a truck that I watched them drive into the yard. I drove it around a little to make sure the tranny was OK and then they removed it and loaded it into my truck.

I can now cruise at 70 mph down the highway and the truck isn't under any strain at all. My truck had a 3.73 ratio rearend and the T-5 worked out perfectly. I am now in the process of building a 350 so I can swap out the 230 and I'll still be running the T-5. There are a bunch of T-5 posts on this site...search for them and you'll get a bunch of info and links about how to plan it and do it. The install ain't that hard as long as you pay attention to what you're doing and ask questions here if you don't know something.

One item of calrification...when I said clutch set up I was referring to the pedals and stuff...you will need a new clutch disc since the spline count is probably different. You should be able to use same pressure plate, throw out bearing, etc.

atomarc- thanks, i will arust the shifter and all per your instructionsnext time i have access to the truck. i'm sure that will cure alot of the headache i am getting.

LGriffin- that was what i was doing to adust the tranny the first time. i will take your notes to heart too. thanks.

and Texmo- wow, its really good to hear from someone who has done this swap; its begenning to sound better and better every day. cruzing at 70 will be hard with the gearing i have (its something like 4.10 rearend??) and no speedometer connected..... lol. really, i think this swap just might happen, thanks to all of yall.
thanks again.

I had shifting problems on my '49 Chevy for the first year I had it.I finally pulled the shift linkage and installed a used floor shifter,which made things worse (missing parts in shifter),so I went back to the column shifter. When I put the linkage back in I bought a bunch of different thickness flatwashers and spring-washers,and shimmed each connection as snug as I could get it without it actually sticking,pulled each apart and greased all the parts and reassembled it. that thing shifted so nice I could even speed-shift it(too bad it didn't have enough power to make use of those fast shifts!!)
It takes an hour or so,but it makes a world of difference! try shimming the linkage before you give up on the ol' three on the tree.
Speed

speed- will do. did u put the shims where the rods connect to the transmition?

I've driven a truck with one of those Hurst indy 3 speed floor shifters, it was in a '55 3100 w/235, it drove horrible. the throwes were too long and the feel was too loose for my taste. When i overhauled the control box for my '55, I made my own bushings from bronze. The bushings came from a local farm store, I modified the control box arms by driling out the holes to fit and adding a threaded hole on the side for a lock screw. Other than that, I added an oil slot on the bushing to allow for lubing. The shifts are very positive. You can see a photo of the bushings on my webshots album.