The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk Cab conversion from 3 to 5 window?

Hey, guys:

Got a tricky one for ya! Has anyone or know of anyone who has grafted a 5 window upper cab half onto a 3 window bottom cab half??

What we already have is a 1953 truck 5 window with alot of bottom rust but know where there is a nice 3 window truck rustfree cab, but really want to keep the 5 window look, hence.. reason for the thought.

At first glance it looks like you could split the cab just south of the beltline and somewhere in the windshield frame area. Anybody ever tried it.. or would the body become a bowl of spaghetti when it is separated from the other half?

All we have are the rudamentary tools, torches, mig welder, grinder.. but not alot of experience in this area.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be most apprciated.

K. Wells
57 Heaven

PS.. Love this site!!!!

I have separated the two different kinds of cabs at the belt line for the purpose of taking the rear panel from a three window to fix a five window. From the looks of things it could be done as the cab is made from two main assemblies. The roof assembly portion includes the A pillars, the roof and is joined at the belt line to the lower half assembly. There are three or four bolts below the rear window that can be accessed from the inside of the cab. Sometimes these come out easy and sometimes they just spin. If they spin - your screwed and will have to burn them off. Your primary challenge will be to remove the gajillion spot welds that are also joining the two halves. I may have underestimated the number of spot welds though as some cabs have more. The fun will be that you get to do this TWICE, once to each cab. You will then need to remove all the lead that is filling the seams on the A pillars and drill out those spot welds also.
When you start putting it back together you will have MAJOR fun getting the door openings aligned properly.
You might be able to make some money off this though as I for one would buy a ticket to watch someone try this operation. I would provide tons of moral support but you won't catch me drilling the welds for you. Been there.
Once you finish this your level of experience will meet or exceed most other stovebolters.

On a serious note - Fix the rust on the 5 window can and sell the three window if you just have to have the corner windows. I would keep the three window cab myself.

Good luck and let me know where I can buy tickets.

Point taken, you're a funny guy!! But, we're not discouraged easily but then again there hindsight and foresight.

But, here is my thought process. I am thinking of cutting below the beltline about a 1/4" or so.. this would leave all the bolts and spot welds intact and help the cab to retain it's shape??? What do you make of that.. then I would take the 3 window cab bottom and cut it right at the beltline seam and this would give me a 1/4" flange of overlap. Maybe not a perfect way to go and there would be some dinging and filing to do.. but think that would work? Guess I do have a question is.. where is the "A" pillar seam. At the top or the bottom of the windshield. That probably scares me the most..

The other thought... and don't laugh.. is to cut out the little windows and mount them in the 3 window.. am thinking that might be an option?

PS.. You havent seen the rust on the 5 window...LOL

K

"A" pillars basically are the sides of the front window frame. As for the splice approach, sure you can make it work but be sure to have inner supports welded in place from the inside cab wall to the floor and to the dash to retain the cab configuration. You will also want to have your doors in place when you set the new roof on to get your gaps and alignment set. It may turn out just find but it will still be fun to watch. As for the flanged connection across the rear panel, that may not work well. What I did was weld in a flat bar stock to the inside surface and used that to make the welds to. It provided strength and additional metal to weld to. There may be a pic or two of that on my picture trail album. If not let me know and I can send you some pics of how I did the rear panel transplant.

As for transplanting just the windows, someone probably has done that but to me that would almost be more fraught with danger....ROTFALMAO

As for cab rust, I had to replace all four corners plus cowls and floor. In my mind it is easier to leave the big peices together and fix the small ones.

Others will probably chime in here and either agree or disagree with my suggestions. There are many different methods of resurrecting these cabs. Some good, some not so. Whichever you choose, it will be a challenge. Good luck. Drop me a line if I can help.

How to Restore Your Chevrolet Pickup by Tom Brownell has a few pages on this swap starting on page 131.

If you don't have any experience with this sort of thing, such as chopping a top, etc....... leave it alone- you'll just end up with 2 hacked up worthless cabs. I'm not going to lie, I wouldn't know how to do it- and i wouldn't even think about it without some sort of jig to keep everything lined up.

I think only the first addition of "How to restore Your Chevrolet Pickup" had that example. I didn't see it in the second addition. The first addition has a brown truck on the front. They did not touch the belt line.

The front pillars are solidly welded under the lead solder.

Alright guys.. you're starting to make me think now. Might have to take a step back and rethink the process but I sure do appreciate all your input.

Maybe I would be best to look for a good 5 window cab as a replacement no matter how long it takes and in the meantime see how involved the repair work would be?

The main problem and biggest desire to change cab is because the driver's side lower door hinge down to the floorboards is totally GONE..we're talking so gone here the VIN number data plate is missing since there is nothing left to mount it too...LOL This is due I think from the wrecker drivers salty boots in and out over that area and the salty water just resting there and ate it out over years.. hence the MI winter salty environment. But, surprisingly the floorboards are pretty decent other than that corner.

Compound this by rusty fenders, rusty dash and knowing all the work ahead it just seem easier to cut and paste..LOL

By the way who is the best source for replacement panels and where would I find this book that Cletis and Truckermix talk about?

Too bad I can't post a pic of the old girl here so you can all see what I am trying to deal with??? Let me know if you know how to do that..

Thanks guys for the follow up and keep those thoughts and suggestions coming...

And Houston54 you can quit laughing now and get up off the floor....LOL

I am still reading what you're all writing and do appreciate you all taking the time to respond.. as I don't know it all as you can tell and appreciate the tips, insight and warnings!!!

And nope...I have no experience at the chopping thing though I am willing to try anything once!!

K. Wells
57Heaven

Well, the door frame hinge pocket that is sold starts in the area of the lower plate. I am thinking that you would only have to fabricate a few inches, if anything and that is an area where the door post is very simple.

If the 3 window cab is in good shape all over just cut the corner windows out of the 5 window and cut the proper places on the 3 window and weld the window frames in place. Terry B and I just did this to his 3 window. Came out looking like a factory 5 window and we didn'r have to worry about warping the cab or fitting any doors or windows. If you feel uncomfortable about doing this yourself a fair body man can do it quick and pretty cheap if you do all the prep work for him and the finish body work when he is done welding the frames in place. Good luck!

I have two thoughts.

First is that by first cutting the two cabs above and below the belt line, below on the one you want the top from, and above on the cab you are using, you can make access to those bolts and welds easier.

If the reason for cutting up these cabs is because the lower cowl is bad, you might try a different approach. If you cut the firewall and floor from the good cab to replace the bad parts of the five window you are rejoining only a few inches on each side of surfaces that show. To join the cabs in the cowl area is a lot less trouble than that joint across the rear.

I've done some cab cutting too, and its a lot of work. I've not put one back together... yet.

I met a guy here in town several years ago that cut the window frames out of one cab and welded them up in another ,looked factory when he finished it up.

I don't know jack squat about welding or serious body work, so don't take anything I say as gospel, or even that informed of an opinion....

....BUT

They sell cab corner patches to fix rotted out lower cab corners, you just cut out the nasty metal, slap these in, weld 'em up, and grind and body fill to taste, right?

So if dude were to saw out the corner windows, then chop holes in his 3 window cab, he could just graft them in like you would the cab corner patches, right?

Now if it were me, i'd just swap cabs since I actually PREFER 3 window cabs (5 window cabs look too much like an AMC Pacer to me) but to each their own.

Just seems like grafting the extra windows in would be a hellava lot easier than chopping a cab in half.

Go to Google and type in Jack Halton. It will come up Inliner's International and show Jack's 1951 GMC 1/2 ton 3 window with transplanted 5 window corner windows. Jack E-mailed me once and told me he cut about 1 inch of metal from around the window glass, then cut the holes in his 3 window cab and had them welded back in by a professional welder. I'm sorry I can't find the e-mail but it definitely can be done. I have also thought about how an AD pickup would look with a wide wrap around 1 piece back glass. Just a thought no plans on trying it.

If I were going to cut the windows out of one and put them in the other, I would measure real close so I could patch up the "old" 5 window and make it a 3 window again with the pieces you take out of the original 3 window. Then you could at least sell or trade the cab easier.

If you look on the inside of the cab you will notice that the rear inside panel comes in three pieces the center piece has the center rear glass in it. the two side or corner sections have the corner glasses.these threepanels are a perfect spot to cut out and relocate the two corner panels.TAKE THE OUSIDE OF LINES on cab your not going to use. cut on the inside of the lines on cab you are going to use. This will allow you to remove the spot welds with the small metal portions left on the piece your going to use. Now that covers the inside, now you are going to need to mark the outside so that you can cut the piece on the one cab just like the piece on the other. I used a 4prong dinner fork and bent the 2 center tines back against the handel of the fork and used the two outside tines to scribe aline about a half inch along and matching the curve of the rain gutter from the belt line up until I had gone far enough to go past the top of the window. I then scribed a lin with the same fork on the belt line using the seam between thebottom rear pannel of cab and the top this line long enough to go out half way between the center window and the corner window. I used a straight edge and a tape measure to determine the other two lines around the windows on each side of the cab. The whole idea being to make sure the panel you cut out will fit the hole you cut in the other cab. You will then need a wire welder so you can weld the pannels in without warping. Ive done this twice and it worked well both times. Now that being said you can think about this the way I have described it you might opt to remove the top the way your talking about, you may think im crazy feel free to go right ahead. If your 100% oposed to the use of bondo then I wouldn't start. If I get my photo share programs loaded back sinc3e my computer crash I'll try to send some pics......Ronnie

Mr. Sowsear....

I appreciate your input and the tip with the fork is a great idea. I am not opposed to bondo since I think it is easier to work with than lead. I am not worried about the outside appearance as much as the inside.. but then that's what upholstery is for and the wifee does that!!!

In fact all the input from everyone has just been great and I can't thank you all enough for taking the time to give some great feedback.. some positive, none really negative, just some some eye openers, reminders and things to make you think twice about what you think you really want to do here..LOL Keep those thoughts and letters coming.. anybody yet figured out a way for me to post a pic of the truck here on the forum or can you even do that??? I watch the forum daily for action.

Also.. point of interest for anyone.. does anyone know what guage steel this old trucks were made out of??? I know it's pretty thick!

Thanks...
B. Wells 57Heaven's other half

Go up to the "search" link above and type in "how to post pictures". Some of the computer gurus have previously spelled out how to go about posting pictures. The long and the short of it is, you need a host to link your pictures to, like Webshots, Imageshack and the like. It's rather easy after you do it a couple of times.

As for the 5 window, I prefer 3 wondows myself but if I were going to try this, I would use the complete 3 window cab a retrofit the side windows into it. Just my 2 cents worth,
Scott

I did a conversion on my 1950 a few years ago. The PO had put in a sun roof and it was a otherwise good cab for here in the northeast rust belt. My goal was to seperate it at the factory seams and make it so you could never tell it was done. In hind sight I think I would of welded it just below the belt line and if someone wanted to check behind my seat to see if it was original, go ahead. It came out nice but was much work drilling out spot welds. All the interior metal had to come out. Every spot weld around all windows, both cabs. Spot welds around doors and belt lines also. The front pillars were not hard to do but I did have to cut away access to be able to weld the inside peices of the pillars. This part is pretty well outlined in Brownell's book. Go slow here as too much heat will cause them to colapse a little, one of them I had to put a little skim coaat of bondo on. Linning up doors proved to be a challenge as the cabs are not made to a real close tolerance and were a little different. Hope this helps.

Here's one that comes under the heading of "bah humbug" I guess. My sheet metal fabricator, who is an absolute genius at his job, FILLED in his corner windows on a really pristine 54. When I asked him why he would do such a thing he said the windows broke up the smooth rounded line of the cab corner and he didn't understand why GM would put a JC Whitney add a window kit on a beautiful truck. To each his own.

Like you say matter of personal taste I guess whehter you prefer the 3 window or a 5 window. I think chevy offered for better visual didn't they??? Was a cost option I am sure. And like everything else today.. in 1957 when a 57 chevy was $1995, those hard earned dollars for an option equated out to whether or not it was a viable option or a "just gotta have". The other thought is being more visible maybe some didn't want to be seen all that much and wanted to travel in "incognito" rather than being able to see better???? Ya think? Personally I like the 5 window.. least on this wrecker it sure looks cool.

Kitty Wells
57 Heaven

If you get real serious about this, email me and I'll give you the telephone number of a guy I know who did this. He'll be glad to tell you what was involved. I think his truck was damaged in a tornado and his garage roof fell in and damaged his truck roof. I know he went from a 3 window to a 5 window. He's a helpful kind of guy and I'm sure he would be glad to help. Let me know if I can help.

57heaven,
Go to http://www.photobucket.com/ and they will lead you through the linking process. You can get a free account that will allow a certain monthly bandwidth (ie: number of times viewed) and if that is not enough, it only costs like $2.00 a month for a much more generous (possibly unlimited) bandwidth. The big trick is to not leave any photos there that have become outdated. I hope this helps. Good luck.
Gene

I didn't have any problem seeing out of my '50 1/2 ton 3 window.. I really think it adds marginal visability.. it's really a "space age cool" kinda thing.

I wonder if anybody has ever tried to graft some of those extra windows in an Art Deco truck?