The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk beat it with a hammer?

Please help! I'm stumped.
Unrestored 47' with original 216. Ran fine untill it didn't, without warning. Will only run under full choke and only for a few seconds. Will fire and run repeatedly but won't stay running. I have pulled and completely cleaned the carb. The float is adjusted correctly and nothing is clogged. The screen in the fuel pump is clean and the pump is pumping. I have posted this before and tried the few suggestions I received without any improvements.
Seems like it is something simple but I'm not getting it.
Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bob

Look down the carb, pump the throttle.. you should hear and see gas squirting out of the jet. If you don't, you got a fuel delivery and or carb problem.

Disconnect the fuel line, dump some gas in the carb, leave the choke wide open, and see what happens.

If it starts and runs till it burns all the gas up, then i'd suspect your problem is fuel delivery or something to do with the carb.

If it still won't start, you have some other problem.. timing? electrical? stuck valve?

Big Pop,

I had the exact same symptoms with my 1940 with 216. Basically only ran when trying to start the truck with choke on and starter depressed. Will it stay running if you don't let up on the starter. My problem was two fold. Crap in the gas. Got that cleaned up and it ran a little better but would still die after a few seconds.

I basically replaced everything. Coil, wires, cap, rotor and points. That did the trick. I never figured out what was bad, but something in the ignition was not quite right. I assumed the truck would stay running while the starter was pushed because it was using a different circuit than when the starter is off. I'm not very knowledgable of the electrical circuits in our old trucks. So this was an assumtion.

Try the starter trick. Have you done a good tune up and replaced the points, condensor, etc... ?

Bill Schickling

Big Pop,
I just re-read all your "help" posts and all the suggestions. If you tried all the fixes and nothing worked than I am stumped too. I think something is being overlooked. As other people have stated, the three main ingredients to running are compression, fuel and fire. We will assume you have checked the compression and it is OK. Let us also assume you have the proper ignition..no broken wires, fried points etc. You say that it will always start with starting fluid...it will always start under choke and that when you pull the fuel line off and crank the engine, that plenty of GOOD gas comes out. If you are convinced it is the carburetor, which it sounds like it is, then you have to confirm that you did everything correctly. Crank the engine until it starts then shut it off. You want to confirm the bowl is full... pull the carb top to be positive. If the bowl is full then it means that fuel isn't getting through the jets into the venturi, something IS plugged. A large vacuum leak could cause this condition..plug any vacuum line coming off the carb/manifold area. Just for grins, verify that timing is in the ballpark. have someone hold a voltage tester on the key side of the coil and make sure the old beast isn't going into "auto power-down". From what you are saying, it does sound like a carb plugging problem. Fuel things don't USUALLY happen all of a sudden...electrical thing usually do. Trouble shoot the carb AGAIN and make sure you have all the elements needed to run!

Stuart.

Maybe the fuel pump is marginal where it gets fuel to the carb for starting but not enough to keep it running. Not real likely since I would expect it to run for more than a few seconds before crapping out. Anyway to be sure you could unhook the hose and crank it while filling a jug of some kind. I had a similar problem with a truck where the arm on the pump finally wore enough where it didn't get enough action to pump enough to keep it running. poped in a small electric pump and walah.

Thanks for the help. I'll hold off the hammer for now.
Bob

I had the same problem as Bill, it would only kinda run with the starter down. I had fuel, spark, and compression. I then just started messing around and found out I didnt have enough fuel. When I pulled the valve out of the bottom of the tank, the gas didn't come out to fast. I then proceeded to push a piece of wire up into the tank. I was covered in gas, but then it ran good. So check if you have enough fuel. Thats what I say. The best of Luck!

Big Pop,
I am not sure on this but I mentioned pulling the carburetor top and actually seeing if the bowl was full, as opposed to looking down the throat while working the throttle because I think the accelerator pump will squirt fuel with
a less than full (almost empty) bowl!

Usually, in the case of plugged jet, it will either be an idle jet, which allows the rig to run high rpm's only or a high speed jet which would allow the
engine to idle but not attain high speed. Does your engine NOT do either of these things?


Stuart.

Will it run if someone sprays carb spray at it while you crank it over? If it's a lean fuel problem, it will pick-up and run if you spray good carb spray at the carb. If it's not, it will flood out and stop trying to run and just crank,
Scott

Just a thought. Try replacing the condenser in the distributor. It's cheap and easy and just might fix it. Worth a try.

If it wants to run then stops suddenly when the starter is disengaged, check the ignition resistor. If the resistor is broken you only get spark when the resistor is bypassed in start mode. It will act as tho starting but will die when you stop cranking the starter.

I know this to happen with 12 volt systems. The resistor is used to cut down the voltage across the points so they do not burn out as quickly. On start up the full 12 volts goes through to give a hotter spark.

More info could help with the diagnosis. Good luck.

Rick

As stated in earlier posts:
carb- remove top and check for dirt, replace and install an inline fuel filter (see through)

vacuum leak: tighten the carburator, look for crack in carb spacer, look for vacuum leaks (remember the vacuum line to the windshield wipers) I spray carburator cleaner around the vacuum openings on a cold engine (not recomended by many, but it works for me)

Fuel pump: remove the line and check for flow while cranking engine (remove coil wire for safety)

your problem sounds like it is starving for gas or has too much air (vacuum leak) Have you tried to feed it gas while you had someone turning it over? If it will run while you feed it gas, then the problem is in the carb or fuel pump. Good luck ..g

Try a simple jumper wire from the positive battery post to the positive coil post. This will bypass the whole elictrical system. If it runs after you release the starter, then its in the wires someplace. If it still won't run, get a squirt bottle with fresh gas in it, and spray down the carb. as someone cranks it over, if you can keep it running with the spray bottle, you have a fuel delivery problem. If it don't run with eather of these, look for a mechanical problem, broke intake, stuck valves...... Joe

Hi; Interesting problem. Lots of good suggestions. The resistor problem is one I've ran into and the jumper is a good quick test. You didn't say if the truck stopped while driving it or if it just wouldn't start one day. Two thoughts: Could it be flooding? Inconsistant with the need for the choke, but I had a carb power valve stick with similar results. See if the plugs are fouled. Other thought is that it may have jumped time - the cam/crank relationship - but only if it occured while driving. If you get it going let us know what it was.
Rich

Rich,
You mentioned some good points, but I'm not sure a stock '47 has a start/run resistor in the
ignition circuit. If this engine jumped time I am afraid it would be in pieces on the gararge floor.


Stuart.

Hey Big Pop;
Ever get it running? What was it? If not, what have you tried?
Rich

bigpop, have you checked the needle & seat to make sure it isn't stuck? i also had this problem & it turned out the fuel just wasn't up to the task. it was pumping, just not enough. replaced it & it ran fine.
robert.

bigpop, have you checked the needle & seat to make sure it isn't stuck? i also had this problem & it turned out the fuel just wasn't up to the task. it was pumping, just not enough. replaced it & it ran fine.
robert.

Thanks for all the help. Haven't had any time to work on it yet. Hopefully this weekend. I'll let you know what worked!

Bob

Big Pop,

Don't forget us...we are on pins and needles awaiting the outcome of this problem!


Stuart.

I can't wait.
[img]http://wttool.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/normal/30161000.gif[/img]

BFH.

I can't say for sure but looking at the picture I would say that is a chevy hammer. I think the ford hammer is bigger-----bigger problems.

Hi All.

The old girl is runnin like, well, an old girl once again!

Turns out of all things, the 6" flex hose comming from the shut off valve right out of the tank, was collapsing while the fuel pump was pumping. When I checked the fuel pump by cranking it over, I only cranked for a few seconds. The fuel that was in the line made it seem that all was well.

Long story short, a $9 part from Carters and I am back on the road. Thanks for all the help.

Bob

Big Pop,


Yeah!!


Stuart.