The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Zink in my oil

I was told to use SAE 30 oil in my 216. Do I need to add zink to the oil?

First off, I would never use straight weight oil in anything I own unless it was a prewar classic that has never had its engine rebuilt and has had nothing else but straight weight oil in it.

I use either 20w -50 (any brand) or 15w-40 Shell Rotella T4 in all of my cars that have their original engines that haven't been rebuilt but are "worn in". (Shell Rotella has more zinc than most conventional motor oil but they've cut back somewhat to about 1200 ppm down from 1400ppm)

If you are concerned about the lack of zinc in modern oils, I would use Classic Car Motor Oil made exclusively for the Classic Car Club of America. It is made specifically for antique cars and has the most ZDDP content of any oil available - 1600 ppm.

I would never use a zinc additive in any oil for many reasons, one of which is that there is no way to ensure a uniform mixture of the additive throughout the entire crankcase oil volume. What do you do when oil has to be added?

Anyway go with the CCCA motor oil if zinc is a concern for you.

Personally, I have never been concerned about the zinc content in any oil. I've been driving my '56 Cadillac for 24 years as my primary vehicle and have never had a problem using regular oil - either 15w-40 or 20w-50.

www.inrccca.org

I’ve been told to use VR 1 oil because it has the zinc already in it.

Any modern oil will have more zinc and better additives then the oil had when your engine was new. The reason to use dedicated Muscle car oil ( high zinc ) today is most have heavier valve springs and different camshafts. Stock engines with stock valve springs are just fine with a good name brand oil. VR-1 is a good oil, doesn't cost to much more and is easy to get. PennGrade is also a good oil but cost is higher and isn't available everywhere.

10w30 NAPA brand full synthetic is what I run my 250, been using it for 25 years.

With that said, With a engine with no filter (216) what is the mile I need to change the oil ? Every 1000 miles?

Been using VR-1 in my ‘62 - 235 which was first in my ‘53 then transferred over to the ‘50 about 35 years ago. Purrrr !

235 has a oil filter right??

Yup

Change it when it looks dirty! My 250 may go three years with out a change ( 1500 miles or so ).

I wouldn't let it go 3 years even if it was driven zero miles. Moisture accumulation, oxidation, etc degrade oil in the crankcase whether or not the vehicle is driven. Oil additives also degrade over time whether driven or not.

Once a year regardless of mileage. I still use the 3000 mile rule of thumb.

That's what my rule is on all my rigs.

Back in my former dealship life I was changing oil in one of my personall fleet during lunch, Lube dude walks up and asks "why you changing it, I can still see thru the draining out?"
My reply, "that's the point".

Oil changes are the cheapest and best thing you can do to prolong engine life. Some new car makers recommend 7500 or even 10,000 mile intervals. While oil has improved dramatically over even the last 25 years, and are probably still capable of doing the job after such a long interval, I would never let any vehicle go that long.

What's an extra $30 or $60 a year compared to the overall cost of vehicle ownership.

I've shared this story before, but here it tis again. I have never had any oil related issues with new thru high mileage vehicles. I change it on most of our fleet (9) with Walmart oil of the appropriate weight. On my '51 that's 15w40 diesel oil. It used to be made by Quaker State, don't know who makes it now. I change it once a year (or so). I do drive it to town at least once a month year round. That's a 40 mile round trip, minimum.

My highest mileage vehicle, bought new in 1995 is a Dodge 3500 with a Cummins 5.9. It's got right at 300,000 miles. I used to drive it as a work truck while pipelining. At about 75,000 miles I installed a Frantz by-pass oil filter and bought several John Deere oil analysis kits. Plan was to start changing the oil when the analysis said it was time. Well at 15k the 15W-50 Delo always came back good to run, but I'd change it anyway. When the truck was somewhere near the 200,000 mile mark I decided to not chicken out and go till the analysis said change, well I chickened out at the one year mark with 23,000 miles on the oil. It was good to run with all the numbers well within acceptable range.

When I had the oil test above performed I also pulled a sample on the wife's '98 Dodge Dually, also a diesel and with no by-pass filter. The Delo 15W40 oil came back good to run at 13,000 miles. I changed it.

My point is, I believe that for a normal vehicle (no race rigs) about any oil is sufficient this day and time as long as it's a modern, mainline brand in the proper weight range.

I believe we change oil way more often than truly necessary, especially when it comes to our pampered babies whatever they may be. But hey, it's nobody's business so do what feels best and no apologies needed.

The attached analysis isn’t the one mentioned above but the one immediately before the 23,000 mile sample. My filing system could use some work.
RonR

I have always changed my oil at 5,000 miles, oil and filter. The last truck I bought new wss 2000 it had over 326,000 miles on it when I sold it and still didn't use oil.. I do the same on all my other vehicles except for yhe 37 and it gets changed once a year like it or not.

You have an oil pump, just no filter.

The takeaway of the variety of replies above is that there is no hard and fast XXX miles. Everyone has their own method.

If every 1000 miles makes you feel good, go for it.

In modern oils, the additives don't break down from time like the old ones did. If it were me, I would check it and see when it appeared to start collecting debris and change it more often than that.

So with the splash system it also has a oil pump?

Where the truck is stored, what temp it's stored, humidity, how often you drive it, and how far you drive it makes a difference. I don't drive mine all that much, but when I do it's long enough to heat the oil and dry out any moisture, no short trips around the block. Mine also sets in a climate controlled garage, so the temp is steady with little humidity. I check it when I think about it, but see no reason to dump oil once a year with the way I drive the truck.

Get you some small clear bottles to take samples of your oil, keeping one for new oil. When the color starts changing dramatically, make the decision about changing it.

reggiisisadog, we do tend to ramble, just how it is. Fibonachu is exactly right on all points. Yes, your truck has an oil pump, simple explanation (all I'm capable of) is the dippers on the rod caps lubes the bottom of the engine, the pump provides pressurized oil to the top to include the cam bearings and rocker arm assembly/valve train.

My truck has a 216, it has a by-pass oil filter. This was a dealer installed option back in the day and it's still possible to source and install one today. It filters a small amount or percentage of the oil flow, cleaning it without causing a drop in oil pressure. All the oil is filtered just not before it all goes through the engine as it does with a full flow filter.

If your truck is like most AD trucks it's used in a very light duty fashion when compared to its intended and designed use parameters. Odds are very high that it'll be very happy if you change the oil every 1000 miles or once a year.

RonR

reggiisisadog, just looked at your old posts and see that you're building a WW 2 era truck that would have been used in the desert of North Africa by the Long Range Desert Group, a LRDG truck. I tip my hat to you Sir, please keep posting with pictures!

RonR

Please do not worry about using straight 30 weight...especially since you live in Phoenix. That is the single most important factor...at least in my opinion. If on the other hand you live in an area prone to cold weather (or even cold humid mornings) and if you drive a modern vehicle with notably different specifications than the 216, a multi-weight oil will be needed. However, you're not in that crowd at all. Your weather is warmer than Dallas and I use straight 30 weight and have since the early 1960s. The 216 or 235 in a warm to hot climate does just fine with a single weight oil. VR-1 30 weight is what I use. And with 30 weight you may have fewer oil seepage problems. As for frequency of oil changes, you have less relative humidity in Phoenix so you will be just fine with changing your oil once or twice a year (depending on mileage). My 2 cents worth. Good luck!

FWIW the original requirement was for 20-20W. The bearing clearances were rather tight on the rods so it takes a low viscosity oil to squirt into the dippers and adequately lube the rods. Oil temperature probably tracks water temp pretty closely. So I wouldn't think you'd need a 50wt. multi-grade even in Phoenix.

I've been following Lake Speed's YouTube videos on oils and he does scientific testing for hire. He has pointed out that oil formulated for diesels has high calcium as soot dispersent and that the calcium competes with the ZDDP for the spaces in the metal-surface irregularities. So the net effect of extra zinc (ZDDP) is much less than you'd think. It's complicated but the net effect he says to use gasoline-blended oils in gasoline engines. He has also done camshaft wear tests with various oils and found that flat-tappet cams do just fine with modern low zinc oils of adequate viscosities. The videos are very informative and about 20 minutes or so long. Its a small investment.

I quit using DELO 15-40 when I no longer got it for free and went to VR1 which is a racing formula and suffers viscosity breakdown as it's assumed to be changed frequently, like after every race, says Lake. So then it was Rotella T3, and back to VR1 after I saw the video on diesel formulations. All this on my gasoline powered pickup. Its 235 ran nearly 200,000 miles before it burnt a piston and was retired. It now has a 261 and I'm using Valvoline synthetic 10-30 on the next change in place of T3. We'll see. I'll send in the drained oil for analysis and see what I get back.

Wow, I just changed my oil in mid April. I've put 900+ miles on the turd since then. Glad I have a bunch of oil, ready to go.......