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as i've stated in other posts i'm looking at a 63 Chevy COE
1. i'm thinking about now is instead of makin it into a flat bed is to shorten the frame and use it to pull a trailer how complicated is it to shorten the frame? what do i need to watch out for?
2. Gas is going to keep going up and gas engines in big trucks that are always pulling really suck gas so i'm thinkin Diesel? what would be a good diesel engine that gets decent power and good fuel mileage and can be gotten at a fair price that would work in a 63 2ton Chevy COE
3. what would i need to change to use the diesel engine or could i make the stuff it has work (5spd trans, and 2 spd rear)
4. finaly how much of a pain would it be to do (or just tell me i'm crazy and forget about it)

anything and everything is appreciated
thanks
Nate

Unless you are journeyman or better welder, have a truck shop shorten yer frame..diesel's gonna go up too, which is a ripoff, as diesel is a by-product of making gasoline..what do ya have fer an engine now?
Yer existing gearing should work..the small cats work well, but you'll have to get with a truck shop again to make sure your 5spd will bolt up and you can plan on spending about 5K for an engine, clutch and bellhousing..

Might be cheaper in the long run to buy a used late model diesel rig and rob whatever you need for yer bolt...

It may be easier to retro fit your body to a modern chassis. Find something that would suit your needs that's been wrecked (sheetmetal, not frame) and swap the body over,
Scott

1. Depending on how the frame is made it is sometimes possible to re-drill the bolt holes for the rear suspension farther forward, move the suspension forward and then cut off the extra tail of the frame. No welding.

2. If you would like a diesel it will be cheaper and easier to buy a truck with one in it.
If you want a Diesel in the 63 see if the factory ever put one in, that would be the easiest swap.
If you find an engine you like and want to swap it it can be done with out much trouble, assuming it actually fits, but it will take you some time and lots of measuring and figuring.
Depending on what you want to haul many different engines may suit your needs. While you figure that out I would recommend staying away from a Cat 3208, a Detroit 8.2, and a GM 6.2, and possibly the 6.5 too. You may want to consider an international DT466, a Cummings 6 cylinder, sized to your load, a Detroit 4-53t or 6v53t, or 4-71T.

3. What you need to change depends on the engine you pick, how fast you want to go, where you drive, what transmission, and what rear ratios you have.
Once you know your tire size, have sized the engine HP to the load and speed, and know at what RPM that engine is most efficient you can use a calculator like this to choose the OD ratio or DD you need in your transmission to work with the rear axle you have or will swap. http://www.drivetraindirect.com/t_gear_calculator.htm
If your current transmission has a round clutch housing with 12 bolts it is compatible with a diesel engine.

4. It will be a pain and will cost more money than you ever thought. Depends on what you want, and how bad you want it. You have asked some good questions, so you have been thinking about this, but i get the impression you are not sure you really want to do this yet. Don't start unless you are.

Grigg

the engine it has now is a 409 but the guy i'm buying it from is keeping it so i'll need an engine any way
1. the rearend is just a reg. old 2spd so i'm guessing the ratios are 6.10 and 8.10
2. mainly going to be pulling gooseneck/fifth wheel trailers like a 30 ft flat bed and like a 3-4 hores horse trailer with decent sized tack room
3. loads are mainly going to be off-roading trucks, new projects, hay, horses, and occasionaly building materials,
4. speed is not really an issure as long as i can go 60 mph without over taxing (or going out of its power range) the engine i'm alright
5. its already got the 5spd so its got overdrive (to my knowledge most 5spds are overdrive) so i'd like to keep that trans so if i can get by with just a bellhousing switch that'd be perfect
6. tire size is 8.25 x 20
7. mainly going to be flat land driveing but i don't want it to be a dog when going up a hill
8. Grigg you're right i'm not sure if i want to go through with this yet i'm sure that want to shorten the frame but the diesel engine is going to be years in the making, i'll probly run around with a gas engine for quite some time
thanks
Nate

Nate a couple of thoughts.

First on the old truck type 5-speeds most were not overdrive. You will want to check and see which one you actually have.

Second I've toyed with the Diesel conversion idea a few times too, and keep deciding to stay with my gasoline motors.

Part of that is just that I like the rumble of a big V-8 while the sound of a Diesel doesn't move me. But part of it is economics. The conclusion I've reached is that you have to drive a lot of miles before doubling your fuel economy saves enough money to pay for the convesion.

I just don't drive my bigger rigs that much.

Third, if a 409 was in there, a 454-502-572 will go back in pretty easy. I have one good running 454 I got for free (in a junk truck). A crate 572 can be had for about $15,000. Somewhere between those two numbers you can probably find a good motor that fits your budget.

Buy a used big block and for far less money than a Diesel conversion you can be running that truck around pretty fast.

It may not pull as hard and will likely use a lot more fuel, but you can buy a lot of gasoline for five to ten thousand dollars, plus you buy as you need it and don't pay interest or loose investment income on the capital investment the Diesel conversion could require.

If you have a passion for Diesel then I'm sure its worth it. But otherwise consider the economics carefully.

The price of Diesel around here took a dive, it's the same as cheap unleaded instead of .20 over the good stuff. Nice to see for a change (esp. since I've been eyeballin a new turbo diesel car).

A thought I have on your engine question that may cost you less in the end run, how about droppin in a crate engine? A modern GM Vor-Tech engine produces some serious grunt AND gets decent milage. If getting a new in the box engine seems a bit extreme, complete engines with CPU & all can be had at scrap yars pretty cheap as well. With a 10-speed drive train you have more ability to keep a modern gasoline engine in it's prime RPM range & may actualy get better economy than an old diesel.

Otherwise, I'm partial to the old cab/new frame idea. Less special fabrication, and you start off with a proven drivetrain.

I don't watch Diesel prices but I have noticed a number of my Diesel pickup friends showing up in alternate vehicles. But then I'm driving 20+ mpg car these days instead of an 8 mpg pickup...

If you get the right injection system a new crate motor is going to make lots of torque. The big injected ones aren't pocket change, but may not be any more than a solid Diesel converstion.

I tend to think big block but an injected 383 small block is going to run hard on the straights and might be plenty until you hit a tall pass.

I had a Chevy tilt like that with 409. Same deal, guy wanted engine, but I got to pull and keep odd stuff. The engine has standard bolt pattern on b/house, BUT had an adapter on it, with a very large flywheel, then the bellhousing fit on that. Special starter, bolted to adapter. The tranny's in these units have either cables going to trans or large pipe like rods, and you need diff ones for diff engines. The trans has special top with shift mechs on it, not just plain top trans. The bolt pattern on front of trans is same as standard truck bellhouse if you found a smaller engine and stich bellhouse. BUT, again, it requires hydraulic clutch cylinders on it. These trucks had a very hard to find double master cyl with clutch master on it too. Expensive. My GMC had a Toro-flo V-6 Diesel, they offered then, stay away from those. Best bet is to find a 350 V-8 and 400 auto trans and drop down in frame, make your own mounts like you would in a rod. No clutch problems, or linkage problems, parts available anywhere. I'm glad I gave up on some of my ideas of changing over old junk. Drives ya nuts, and cost's way too much, and you will still have an OLD TRUCK. And, no one will ever want to buy it from ya either, unless you give it away. Buy something newer!

the one i'm looking at has the large pipe like rods and i'm thinking i'm keeping the original trans so i could get by with just a reg. 350 and not have problems with not having enough power and this one also has the adapter so it can have the bigger flywheel/clutch the way it seems though i'm going to stick with a gas engines
Nate

Nate
If you where to go the route of the diesel I am pretty sure you would need to swap out the rear gearing. Poke around here for a wile there is a lot of drive train info here http://www.6066gmcguy.org/
As stated by Oldsub most of the old 5spds are not O/Ds but there are some. The link above has all the info you need. For the mileage you are going to want an O/D regardless most of these old trucks are good for only 50 MPH and they are screaming at that. My 64 2 ton gets about 7 mpg at best with a S/B 350. Another idea and the way I think I will go is to use a Gearvender O/D they build one that is good for 30,000 GVW. Split you rear once at the bottom an once again at the top and split all the tranny gears with the Gearvender and you will have 12 gears to work with.