The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop "Best" carbs for 2x1 setup on 235?

O've checked the forums here and on several other boards and nowhere have I found a straight answer. So now to you guys running 2x1 setups, Whats the best all around carbs to use on an Edmunds water heater 2x1 manifold with Fentons? I know Tom Langdon would tell me to run the carter-weber 2bbls but I'm not crazy about their looks especially the 2 into 1 reducers necessary to fit the 2bbls onto the 1bbl flange. What do you guys like?

Carters are probably the best for 1-bbls. They are the most tunable and easily available carb that will fit. Be prepared to tune, there is no direct bolton that works right out of the box.

I have also thought about using the new Solex carburators that JCW and others sell for replacing the carb on Willys Jeep flatheads. They are based on a VW carburator and might have tuner parts available if you look.

I'm in the middle of the same choice.

Has anyone actually used the Carter Weber Carbs that Langdon sells?

Anyone have any pics with them set up on an Offenhauser dual intake?

How is it adjusting down the the fuel intake? Do you have to get smaller jets?

Chevy used a carter yf on the 63-76 trucks. anybody try them on a dual setup?

Here's a set of the 2X2's on my 261. It ran great right out of the box. I used Langdon linkage and the setup was easy.

[IMG]C:\Documents and Settings\Ken and Vicki\My Documents\My Pictures\52 Chevy Pickup[/IMG]

Well, obviously my attempt at embedding a .jpg did not work. Any tips on how to do that?

shoeless

Shoeless, your image has to be posted on another site, this site doesn't allow uploading.

We put dual Holley-Webers (the ones from Langdon) on my friends 52. He has a hot 261. Runs far better than with the dual Rochester ones. The progressive 2 barrel carbs work good, but he needs more carb for the top end. Considering going with dual Rochester 2 barrels, which will mean some loss of bottom end torque.

At this time, I have no pictures, but agree the adapters are ugly as sin. We were talking about welding the top plate from the adapters directly to the intake, but that is on the back burnere.

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/Hotrod6/HW_Carbs01.jpg[/img]

HW's with electric chokes. Outstanding performance! Pulls hard past 4500 RPM with Howard's M4F, Mallory Electronic, Fenton headers, etc. Good grunt and throttle response.

Hotrod6,

What's a Howard M4F? Did you have to do anything to the cam to make those 2bbls work as you describe?

Thanks,

Jerry

M4F is what we used to call a mild 3/4 race cam. Sold by Patrick's whose website is in the links section. Patrick is the authority on cams for these engines.

Thanks Fred. How streetable is this setup for a daily driver? I've got a 3.36 open rear end and stock 3-on-the-tree.

HotRod 6 that is a nice looking setup but aren't those carbs turned the wrong direction? I understand the fuel inlet port is toward the front of the engine. Did you mount them that way to allow for better linkage?

Hot Rod;
Installation looks nice. Got the same set-up from Langdon's and will be doing the install during the winter of 05-06. How easy was the linkage set-up? What size bolts did you use to install the carbs to the adapters? I have some stainless ones I'm going to use but the adapters don't fit the carbs perfectly to allow bolts which are full sized in the holes. Can use a smaller diameter bolt but they are a bit sloppy in the holes. Also Tom mentioned to me that I did not need to use the insulating blocks between the carbs and the adapters but could just use the gaskets instead. Were you aware of this or did you just go ahead and use the insulating blocks. Would appreciate your response.

Geezer. Not to answer a question to another poster here but I can see from the photo that Hotrod did use the spacers. I did not. Also note that my carbs are facing forward and in my opinion the proper direction.

See mine at www.picturetrail.com/Birdhtr

After struggling with 2-1bbl Rochesters (on Offy intake) in my '51 3100 for years...I heeded Tom L's advice and switched to 2-1bbl Carters (w/ manifold heater ...what a difference! no leaking, no loading up, easier tuning ...nice clean set-up plus I got a couple extra mpg.

Going to try to answer all the questions from Fred T, Jerry Acheson, 53monneypit, and 49 Geezer in one shot!

Howard's M4F cam is sold by Patrick's and is a very streetable cam. It is a mechanical lifter cam and idles good enough to run air conditioning! It pulls hard through 4500 RPM where I backed out! I like it!

The H/W's are mounted acording to the instructions. I think there was only one way NOT to install them. Anyway, the linkage works out best this way and it runs really well. I like to run the insulator plates as it reduces the chance of cooking the fuel in the bowls, which is not good!

I used the bolts that fit the carburator base plate. I set-up and marked the adaptor to fit the base of the carb, carfully filing out the adapter holes to match the carb. It took a bit of time but it worked and no air leaks! (Cheaper to goof up and replace an adapter!)

These are electric choke carbs and run manifold heat through steel tubing from the Fenton Headers. I also dropped the head pipe to 1.5 inches. This increased "grunt" on the bottom end. Since I red line at 4200 The 235 don't pump that much air to effect top end. Mufflers are 31 inch "packs" and 2 inch tailpipes from the mufflers back. Air cleaners are K+N's that fit into the Langdon cans.

We run a 3:55 rear gear and a T-5 5speed and these carbs are delevering 18-22 MPG with no leaks, stumble, or farting with them! The car also pulls a 26 foot travel trailer with this set-up and maintains the speed limit and beyond!

Hope I got it all covered!

Here you go:

Don`t looks to bad hu?

I remooved the electric/water chockes because I don`t want mor plumbing and because of my 6V system. Got me a 9$ conversion kit (for old Toyota Landcruiser) and converted to manual. But I never ever had to use it. Go throw it out for the next season.

Verry intresting thing about to remove the insulator plates. Does this realy work?
I would be glad to throw them out because of hood clearance problems with the big filters.

[img]http://www.thesavoy.de/assets/images/Enginedriv.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.thesavoy.de/assets/images/Carbdetail.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.thesavoy.de/assets/images/Enginepass2.jpg[/img]

Hotrod6,

Thanks. Sounds great. What is the 'head pipe' you're talking about? Is that the size of the pipe from the header to your mufflers? What's your travel trailer weigh? Any chance you could post pictures of how you ran your heat from the header to the intake? Thanks again. (I'm starting to get excited about my 235 again. I was pretty frustrated last fall when I couldn't get my Rochesters to work.)

Jerry

FWIW: I'm using the Carter Webers on an Offy dual intake. Mounted and linked the same as 53Moneypit's. Right now the engine is on an engine test stand. I've been taking a slow and methodical approach as I go. Had engine rebuilt --.030 over. Changed out generator for A/C compresor and 80 amp alternator, used Patricks' bracket. Using the original intake with single barrel carb and stock distributor fired upp and ran engine. Next I replaced the stock distributor with a Mini HEI from Langdon. Ran engine -- ok. Next I installed the Offy mainifold, using adaptors I mounted the Carter Webers and necessary fuel line plumbing. Engine fired right up, adjusting the carbs was a snap. Couln't be happier. As I said right now it is on an engine test stand with no load. I expect that some fine tuning will be required once it is operating in the vehicle and under load. But at least I have a base line to start from.

I published an article in the Inliners Newletter about the different carbs and manifold setups I ran on a modified 261 Chevy engine over the course of 5 years.
I started out with two Rochester B's,the larger 1-9/16 throttle bore carbs.Other than the usual minor exterior gas leaks B's seem to have,they carbureted beautifully with stock jetting on a heated manifold.
I then switched to two of Langdon's Holley Webers,ugly carbs on ugly adapters.Again,they worked great,gave a little more power,a little better idle.The H/W's would flood from time to time,the idle jets would need to be cleaned out all the time.The supposedly rebuilt carbs had been cleaned by bead blasting,little specks of crap constantly got in the jets or float needle.Tom Langdon gave me no help with this problem, so I switched over to a single 4 bbl,using a variety of carburetors.The 4 bbl doesn't perform any better or worse,but is a lot cleaner looking on the engine.

Anybody ever ran twin stombergs?
This tasty morsel was in the last Rodder's Journal:

[img]http://www.whizzerick.com/ts.JPG[/img]

My neighbors would looooooove those zoomies...

steveg - I see you switched to 2 - 1bbl Carters. Did you ues the YF or W1. I'm thinking about doing this but not sure which ones to use. I want to stick with 1bbls, I think they look better.

Thanks
George

Jerry,

The head pipes come off of the headers and run to the mufflers. I will get a shot of the heat tubes posted soon!
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/Hotrod6/DSCF0127.jpg[/img]
This is our 26 Ft. Aerolite. Its GVW is 5000 Lb.

Hotrod6

That setup looks great. Thanks for the feedback. What did you do to the rear suspension to hold that big trailer up? I bet you get lots of 'thumbs-up' when you pass by. Is that exhaust setup pretty loud?

I just ordered the carbs from Langdon. I'll call Patrick's next. Thanks.

Jerry

Here's a few pictures from Steve G

Carb One

and

Carb Two

And a reminder (if you all would, please ), can you post links to your images rather than the images themselves in a thread. You don't want to hear this part, but it'll save on bandwidth. We want to be good stewards and we already have a pretty graphic-intensive site!

Thanks,
Peg

And I think Steve will be along to comment on this pictures.

Because of my computer disabilities Peg has been nice enough to post my 235 w/ Carters...WFs

Thanks Steve, I may be going to carters also if I have trouble with my rochesters.

George

Jerry,

I used the springs off of our Sedan Delevery and have air on the rear to assist and level. The tongue weight is under 400 lbs and with the weight distribution hitch and sway control it pulls and handle very well!

The exhaust has a nice mellow tone and I can hear the radio! It "talks to you" pulling the hills or hard acceleration, which is most of the time!

It becomes the hit at the RV park and gas stations. People can't believe we are pulling the trailer with a show car! They really go nuts when they see the engine! Meet allot of nice people!

Thanks Hotrod. Sounds like you've got a great setup. I'm getting jazzed about this cold weather getting out of here so I can get the ole truck goin. I've been pretty disapointed in mine since I installed the Offy with Rochesters. They're Holley rebuilds and they aren't pumping any gas. I like the idea of the progressive 2 barrels and electric choke.

Probably my biggest frustration is that this truck only had 18,000 miles on it when I got it and it ran great. I drove it about 2,000 miles last year before I decided to hotrod it. That was the end of my cruisin'. Now I think I'll be back in business for this year. I dropped her 2.5" with single leaf springs. I installed the Offy 2x1 intake and Fentons with dual exhaust and glasspacks. I've got an HEI distributor to install. I also just got my front disk brake conversion kit. Dual master is next. (I don't plan to cut anything so this low mileage truck can go back to original if I decide to later. I doubt that I will though since this was a military window and it's a small back window truck. She's like 'a rock' though. No rust anywhere and no body damage. I've already gone to a 3.36 rear. I'm going to have the rear axles and drums filled and re-drilled to 5x4.75 so I can use a more classic wheel. I haven't decided which ones yet. This truck will be 57 Chevy turquise before it's all said and done and it will have air. The T-5 sounds good too although I think I'd prefer an automatic with OD.

Later,

Jerry

I would say use 2 carbs that will be easy to find parts for 10 years from now,......... 'course I didn't exactly do that either!
I used 3 Dellortos, pics in the gallery!

I've always liked the Carters best, and found fresh rebuild parts easy!

jerry, is there a place in indy that i can have my rear drums drilled? i live in marion and visit my son in fishers so i am down there regularly. ron

Great! I've got a Stovebolt neighbor. The place is up by you in Portland. The company is Moser Engineering. They have a website. I emailed them and got feedback that it's $140 a pair to do the axles and another $140 a pair to do the drums. I'm gonna take mine up there within a month or so.

Ok, I'll jump in on this discussion! Just a couple of months ago I attended an auction at an old Chevy dealership and purchased TWO N.O.S. Rochester 1bbl carbs still in the boxes, never opened. I had hoped to use them on a 2x1 set up on my '51. Are you guys that ran Rochesters saying I shouldn't bother or that you had problems with rebuilt carbs?? I well know that they are prone to leakage but, I thought that maybe new carbs with no wear might not be as problematic. Tony, what do you think????

I did the exact same thing about ten years ago. I bought three Rochesters still in the boxes - never used. I rebuilt two of them with kits and have been using them ever since and I have been happy with them. I will tell you that I pulled the chokes off of them and rebuilt them as "basic" carbs using a cable choke and cable throttle, although this may not be necessary.
On the rebuild, I also lowered the float level to between 1/8" and 3/16" lower than called for in the rebuild instructions. I felt with the lower float setting in the bowl lower, I would have a better chance of not having any leaking problems where the top and bottom of the bowl goes together. It has worked fine. If you were using a single carb, this probably wouldn't have worked, but with two carbs, I think there is enough fuel in the bowls to handle a lower level. I have never noticed any lack of fuel being a problem, even under a hard acceleration.
The best part of the whole thing is that my engine still looks "period correct" because it has the right looking carbs on it.

Hey Stingray,you talkin to me? I said something earlier on in this thread about my experiences with Rochester B's.Aside from the usual fuel seepage from float bowl covers overtightened in the past by ham fisted tuners,they carburated very well.In fact as good as the Holley Webers I also tried out.
But that's my story on my engine.The best advice is to try them out to see what they do for your engine.
These 235/261'a are low tech designs even by 1950's standards,there no magical carb set ups,just run what works for you.

If you speak with the people at Langdon Stovebolt...they make a couple of good points...
1) 2 1bbl Rochesters are too much carburetion for
for a 235.
2) 2 1bbl Carters are much better sized for that application and provide better performance & mpg
3) Carters are much more tuneable than Rochesters.
My 10 year experience running Rochesters is this:
They leak...new, old, rebuilt they are going ot leak.
They are difficult to tune...they load up easily and require (in my case)a fuel pressure regulator
to operate at all.
If you notice the positions re comments in this thread ...running about 10 to 1 against Rochesters.
Save yourself time, money and frustration and go in a direction other than Rochesters.

I'll add a little more in here. I have the M4F cam in my 235, still have single leakchester carb and stock exhast manifold. (I never finished my upgrade) Engine idles at 550 rpm, pretty smooth. Also, I have turned 4,200 rpm, which is 95 mph and scary as heck in a stock 3/4 ton.

On my friends 52, 1/2 ton. 261, balanced, shaved and professionally ported head (another friend). Full race cam from Patricks, cast Fenton headers, Offy intake with dual H/W 2 bbl carbs. Mallory Unilite ignition from Patricks, MSD-6 and coil. The truck runs like a scalded cat. Has a Saginaw 4 speed, 3.73 gears and the last time he had it out doing burnouts he hit 6,000 rpm in first, and was still burning rubber into 4th gear.

Engine is very streetable. Drives it every weekend. Idle is about 600 rpm and lumpy. He also is thinking about going with bigger carbs, he doesn't think the dual H/Ws are enough. We still need to hook up a vacuum gauge and drive it to see if he needs more carb.