I've been having very slow turnover when starting my truck (foot start). When warm, it won't start. It's a 235 12v, has a new battery, new adjustable voltage regulator and the alternator has checked out. Before pulling my starter and driving an hour to a reliable shop.... What does this resistor do? It's connected to the coil and the starter. Could it be the culprit? Don
The resistor is for the ignition coil when running. It should be bypassed when the starter is operating. Before you do anything else, get a multimeter out and measure battery voltage when cranking. Have to ask the question re: the battery. How new is new? No guarantee that it's still up to snuff to turn the starter over at the proper speed and still provide enough voltage to fire the spark plugs. Could be the starter as well.
Kevin 1951 Chevy 3100 work truck Follow this saga in Project Journal Photos 1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car) Busting rust since the mid-60's If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together.
If the battery is new and has a full 12v charge, the engine should spin over rapidly and without difficulty.
The usual admonitions about clean , tight, corrosion free connections apply.
Did it spin over normally and now doesn't?
The starter could be worn out, especially if it doesn't do anything when hot but spins up when it cools off.
1950 Chevrolet 3100 (Ol' Roy)
1939 Packard Standard Eight Coupe (The Phantom) | 1956 Cadillac Coupe de Ville (The Bismarck) | 1964 Ford Galaxie 500 coupe |1966 Ford Mustang (Little Red) | 1969 Pontiac GTO (The Dishpit) I 1979 Ford F-100 | 1976 Ford F-150 (Big Red) | 1995 Ford F-150 (Newt)
The resistor is supposed to be wired in series with the ignition switch and the coil. It's there to control the current flow through the points and keep them from burning out while the engine is running. It's supposed to be bypassed with a terminal on the side of the foot start switch during engine cranking. Here's why- - - - - -
The normal output voltage of the charging system, either generator or alternator, is around 14.5-14.7 volts when running against a fully charged battery. During cranking, especially in cold weather, the battery voltage can drop as low as 10 volts or slightly less, due to the load the starter puts on the battery. To assure the ignition system gives a good spark during cold cranking, the factory installed a coil that functions- - - -you guessed it- - - - -at around 9 volts.
To keep the points from burning due to excessive current during normal running, they installed a resistor to drop the voltage at the coil to 9.5-10 volts once the engine gets started and the charging system kicks in. Unless the resistor can be bypassed during cranking (especially cold cranking) there won't be enough coil output to fire the spark plugs efficiently.
In about 3- - -2- - - -1 seconds, somebody is going to chime in with some advice to "run a coil with an internal resistor". Ignore them!
The resistor has nothing to do with cranking speed- - - - -that's controlled by the condition of the starter, the size of the battery cables- - - -and of utmost importance, the condition of the ground circuit from the starter back to the battery. All the cable connections, both from the battery to the starter, and the circuit back to the battery through the engine block and frame- - - -must be clean and tight. Don't guess- - - -disconnect and clean every connection, both hot and ground. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
An easy first step in troubleshooting a slow cranking problem.
Engage parking brakes. Place transmission in neutral. No not turn ignition switch on. Take a long screwdriver and press in the starter motor switch (red arrow) for about 3 to 5 seconds. The starter motor should run very fast (whine).
Last edited by buoymaker; 12/31/20221:43 AM.
"Adding CFM to a truck will only help at engine speeds you don't want to use." "I found there was nothing to gain beyond 400 CFM."
Cable condition as stated already along with cable size, 6 volt systems work best with 0 or 00 size cable, 12 volt conversions can go up to a 1 or maybe 2 gauge if everything is in good shape. Battery ground should go to the engine block then the frame and cab, block first to insure the most voltage for starting. You can not have to big of a battery cable, positive and negative should be the same size. Starters are not complicated, pull it apart and clean it up yourself. Brushes and rebuild kits should be available online, simple tools, multimeter, and shop manual will get it done.
Thank you for the great and thorough suggestions. I will try every one of them.
As a retired guy who's playing with his 1st stovebolt, I have had quite a few questions. Some of you are there for me over and over. Thank you very much. By now, you are a trusted source of information that helps keep the frustration out of the hobby I enjoy!
Thank you for the great and thorough suggestions. I will try every one of them.
As a retired guy who's playing with his 1st stovebolt, I have had quite a few questions. Some of you are there for me over and over. Thank you very much. By now, you are a trusted source of information that helps keep the frustration out of the hobby I enjoy!
Don
I often wonder how many folks new to these trucks would still be dead in the water on how to fix them if this site did not exist. I'd bet the number would be staggering.
1952 5-window - return to "as built" condition | 1950 3100 with a 235 and a T-5 transmission
The 1st step I took was Bouymaker's screwdriver test. Pushing on the solenoid made the starter turn fast. I wouldn't call it "very fast", nor did it "whine". I would say it "turned fast and growled" a steady lower tone. I'll go ahead and check grounds next.
I enjoyed others voicing praise toward you forum members who repeatedly show up for us.
Assuming that my starter is ok, as described above, I'll move on to cables and grounds.
It appears that my positive battery cable is a size smaller than the ground cable. That ground cable goes to the frame under the cab.
My starter is ground to the frame in the engine bay.
I'll clean the contacts on the starter ground first.
From your comments, it seems like I need more ground contact points. Is that correct? Battery to block then frame? What should I change? Or could I add a battery ground cable from my current frame attachment point to the block?
If you don't have a ground cable between the block and frame, or directly from the block to the battery ground post, you likely have a high resistance ground path that drops voltage that the starter needs. The stock setup has both battery to frame and frame to block ground cables (see pic). You need a ground path of appropriate size all the way from the block to the battery. You also need to be sure there's no paint at the bolted connections.
Kevin 1951 Chevy 3100 work truck Follow this saga in Project Journal Photos 1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car) Busting rust since the mid-60's If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together.
This thread should be called "Slow Turnover Help Needed".
My truck would turn over slowly, then start (cold). After that first start, it would not turn over enough to start.
With the help of fellow Bolters (thank you). My issue is SOLVED.
Upon closer inspection... My battery cables were mismatched in thickness. I discovered that the positive cable had a bolt-on post end that could twist off by hand. My negative cable was attached to the frame. I had no engine to frame ground, nor engine to body ground.
I bought new 2ga batt cables (from Interstate), cleaned all contact points, rerouted negative cable to the bell housing, and secured an 8ga ground to frame from block. (I was so anxious to try starting, I didn't connect block to body ground.)
It started with one turn... instantly. Then, I stopped and started 2 more times with the same result. Big grin!
Kevin 1951 Chevy 3100 work truck Follow this saga in Project Journal Photos 1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car) Busting rust since the mid-60's If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together.
Phil Moderator, The Engine Shop, Interiors and Project Journals
1952 Chevrolet 3100, Three on the Tree, 4:11 torque tube Updated to: ‘59 235 w/hydraulic lifters, 12v w/alternator, HEI, PCV and Power front Disc Brakes Project Journals Stovebolt Gallery Forum
1939 Packard Standard Eight Coupe (The Phantom) | 1956 Cadillac Coupe de Ville (The Bismarck) | 1964 Ford Galaxie 500 coupe |1966 Ford Mustang (Little Red) | 1969 Pontiac GTO (The Dishpit) I 1979 Ford F-100 | 1976 Ford F-150 (Big Red) | 1995 Ford F-150 (Newt)
Going back to my original question about the ceramic resistor... I received the Tom Langdon HEI distributor I ordered to install sometime soon. Tom recommends removing the ceramic resistor in Stovebolts, so mine will be leaving my engine bay soon.
My hand is up Carl. I would be in big trouble if it wasn't for this site. Have fun Don, sounds like you are were I was about 5 years ago. Learning about your truck and a lot of spontaneous smiles.
